quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Saul repented........

Joyce has not, she continues to preach Word of Faith.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Saul repented........

Joyce has not, she continues to preach Word of Faith.

I understand, but I am asking if prophet is saying that God looks down on those funds if they happen to be used in the correct way. Does that make sense?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Saul repented........

Joyce has not, she continues to preach Word of Faith.

I understand, but I am asking if prophet is saying that God looks down on those funds if they happen to be used in the correct way. Does that make sense?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Saul repented........

Joyce has not, she continues to preach Word of Faith.

I understand, but I am asking if prophet is saying that God looks down on those funds if they happen to be used in the correct way. Does that make sense?

Is this using funds in the correct way:

- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- 2005 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- 2004 Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

Joyce Meyer uses those funds to preach a false Jesus.

A Jesus that did not complete His work on the cross. A Jesus that had to go to hell. A Jesus that had to fight the devil in some mythical battle. A Jesus that had to become the first "born again man". A Jesus that guarantees wealth and health. A Jesus that is oblidged to provide all of what we declare. A WoF Jesus

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

JM does a good job of helping women get past (over) the victim mentality BUT it is done in a manner of self-help rather than becoming a victor through the power of the cross. This fact negates any good her teachings bring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
JM does a good job of helping women get past (over) the victim mentality BUT it is done in a manner of self-help rather than becoming a victor through the power of the cross. This fact negates any good her teachings bring.

Is this what you teach the ladies in prison?

quote:

- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- 2005 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- 2004 Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000

quote:

ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience

That is something I've noticed with Meyer and WOF apologists. "oh, they do alot of good so does their errant teaching really matter?"

Well, if I stole cars and gave the money I got from the parts to charity, would that make my theft any less wrong?


No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: yohannan

It would make one shrewd and commended was the unfaithful manager for deciding to make other debts less; for all who came before Me were liars and thieves is written. And if only the people of the light were as shrewd is written. Which one did what The Master asked? The ones who say that will believe in Jesus or the ones who changed their mind regarding substance and went to do what was required?

Which light is referred to here? The lesser light for Jesus comes like a Thief at a time when that servant may be unaware of it and assign one a place with unbelievers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience

That is something I've noticed with Meyer and WOF apologists. "oh, they do alot of good so does their errant teaching really matter?"

Well, if I stole cars and gave the money I got from the parts to charity, would that make my theft any less wrong?


No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Saul repented........

Joyce has not, she continues to preach Word of Faith.

I understand, but I am asking if prophet is saying that God looks down on those funds if they happen to be used in the correct way. Does that make sense?

Is this using funds in the correct way:

- French clock in the ministry's Fenton headquarters...$11,000
- Crownline boat docked behind her vacation home at Lake of the Ozarks...$105,000
- Pair of Dresden vases...$19,000
- Six French crystal vases...$18,500
- Dresden porcelain depicting the Nativity...$8,000
- Two curio cabinets...$12,000
- Porcelain of the Crucifixion...$5,700
- Pair of German porcelain vases...$5,200
- Malachite round table...$30,000
- Marble-topped antique commode...$23,000
- Custom office bookcase...$14,000
- Stations of the Cross in Dresden porcelain...$7,000
- Eagle sculpture on a pedestal...$6,300
- Another eagle made of silver...$5,000
- Numerous paintings...$1,000 to $4,000 each
- Conference table and 18 chairs...$49,000
- Woodwork in the offices of Meyer and her husband...$44,000
- Bathroom addition...$10,000
- 2005 Lexus SC sports car with a retractable top for Ms Meyer...$53,000
- 2004 Lexus sedan for her son Dan, 25...$46,000
- Mercedes-Benz S55 AMG for Meyer's husband...$107,000
- Canadair CL-600 Challenger jet corporate jet...$10 MILLION
- Her home...$2 million
- Houses for her four children...$2 million
- Lakefront home on Lake of the Ozarks...$500,000

I'm sure a prosperity pimp would say something along the lines of how can she be effective if she looks poor, and how can she get poor people to send her money if she doesn't give them examples of what sending their money in will get them.

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ORIGINAL: michele_erin

At my old church my pastor told me to read everything I could by Joyce Meyer. Seeing how he was the authority in my life, I did as he said. While she has a lot of great advice, I found that I was becoming more and more burdened in my life the more I read her books. I don't know how to explain it. I felt like if I didn't pray something just so, God wouldn't answer my prayers, or if I said the wrong thing that God couldn't do His will in my life. I know looking back on it now that its all craziness, but at the time it was very real.

I remember at one point I looked up to the sky and telling the Lord "it shouldn't be this difficult to have a relationship with You." In that still small voice, He replied "It's not." I put all the books away, and felt more free than I'd ever felt. I know it was the Holy Spirit showing me the wrongness about much of what she was teaching, along with other WOFs. Then the more I began reading about her, her ministry, her "compound", etc., the more sick I became and I began to not even be able to watch her or listen to her. I know now that it was the Lord because my husband was praying for the Lord to reveal to me His truth, because I was really caught up in the WOF (my husband wasn't). My husband tried to talk to me about it till he was blue in the face, but when he began praying that the Lord show me the Lord's truth -- He did -- and He opened my eyes.

I feel much more free than I ever did while reading all those books. God is not a formula. God is God! The Almighty and Great and Powerful that we should respect, not disrespect by demanding that He bow to us -- good grief! I'm very thankful today that I'm out of that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb

quote:

ORIGINAL: michele_erin

At my old church my pastor told me to read everything I could by Joyce Meyer. Seeing how he was the authority in my life, I did as he said. While she has a lot of great advice, I found that I was becoming more and more burdened in my life the more I read her books. I don't know how to explain it. I felt like if I didn't pray something just so, God wouldn't answer my prayers, or if I said the wrong thing that God couldn't do His will in my life. I know looking back on it now that its all craziness, but at the time it was very real.

I remember at one point I looked up to the sky and telling the Lord "it shouldn't be this difficult to have a relationship with You." In that still small voice, He replied "It's not." I put all the books away, and felt more free than I'd ever felt. I know it was the Holy Spirit showing me the wrongness about much of what she was teaching, along with other WOFs. Then the more I began reading about her, her ministry, her "compound", etc., the more sick I became and I began to not even be able to watch her or listen to her. I know now that it was the Lord because my husband was praying for the Lord to reveal to me His truth, because I was really caught up in the WOF (my husband wasn't). My husband tried to talk to me about it till he was blue in the face, but when he began praying that the Lord show me the Lord's truth -- He did -- and He opened my eyes.

I feel much more free than I ever did while reading all those books. God is not a formula. God is God! The Almighty and Great and Powerful that we should respect, not disrespect by demanding that He bow to us -- good grief! I'm very thankful today that I'm out of that.

That's a great testimony, Michele!

quote:

Once one finds the truths in the Bible, one finds there
is very little to buy in the Bible Book Stores, unless you
wear out your Bible in real Bible Study and are in need
of a new Bible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

From Joyce Meyer's 1991 booklet The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, an evangelistic work aimed at nonbelievers, she resounds the Word-Faith view of Christ’s atonement:

"During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin. He paid the price there ... no plan was too extreme ... Jesus paid on the cross and in hell” (pg. 35, underlining in the original).

“God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, ‘Let Him go.’ Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus ... He was resurrected from the dead — the first born-again man” (pg. 36, underlining in the original).

“His spirit went to hell because that is where we deserved to go. Remember in the very beginning of this, I said, ‘When you die, only your body dies. The rest of you, your soul and spirit, goes either to heaven or hell’” (ibid.).

“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell” (ibid.).

“Jesus went to hell for you” (pg. 38, underlining in the original).

Meyer teaches the classic “Born-Again Jesus” gospel that has been taught by Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, Fred Price, John Jacobs, Charles Capps, Benny Hinn and Jan Crouch, to name a few. It’s usually presented under the guise of “revelation knowledge,” given by the Holy Spirit and grounded in Scripture. However, this gospel does not stand up under biblical scrutiny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gail7364

I do not agree with everything that she teaches, but I do like the way that she is real about real life. She relates to what so many thousands of women have gone through - abuse of all kinds from her Dad and her first husband, which caused her to have a multiple of personality problems. Which, by the way, she overcame through prayer and studying the Bible, not through therapy (I'm not criticizing those who see therapists, so please don't jump on that statement). I feel that she is a strong and determined person to have overcome everything that she had to and she didn't do it on her own. God had to help her and He helped her because she prayed and prayed and studied and studied the Bible.

Doesn't she have her financials open to whomever wants to read them? She sure does a lot of good deeds from the home for homeless women in St. Louis to her work in India, Cambodia and Viet Nam.

I'm sure she has a huge salary, but I wouldn't want to walk in her shoes for her socks, as they say.

I listen to her because of her realness about real life situations that women face everyday. But I am not defending every single thing about her. On the other hand, I wouldn't expect her to live in a two-bedroom house that is 40 years old, ride a bus, and wear old clothes from GoodWill. Then people would criticize her for sure. And remember, when she started, she had no idea that she would end up doing what she is doing now. She felt a calling on her life from God. She felt like a crowd of 100 people was fantastic and as good as it would get! Her focus was on teaching the Word and helping women (and men). Never, ever did she dream that she would have the lifestyle that she has now and I do not believe for a minute that that was her goal for preaching and teaching. She was unknown for many, many years.

If I wanted to become a millionaire, I sure wouldn't choose preaching as a means to get there.