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[Poll]
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The Whiners Thread
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| Everything is hunky dory |
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| The preacher didn't shake my hand |
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| I almost drowned during my baptism |
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| They will let anyone sing specials... |
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| The preacher is preaching to me |
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| Music is always rock-n-roll and loud |
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| No one ever calls me when I'm out |
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| It's too cold in there |
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| All the mixed perfume smells drive me crazy |
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| Don't click here |
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Total Votes : 435
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(last vote on : 11/20/2008 7:04:53 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 5:17:42 PM
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dualaces123
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Believers are already part of the body. That is indeed what I said. However, I also said that a believer is treating themself like an unbeliever if they do not enter this covenant with the church. Conseqently, some of the members of the church may follow suit. As I said twice now, I am not condoning it, I am simply speaking to the person who is here. If the ones who were doing the "bad treating" were here then I would be speaking more to them.
_____________________________
"I hate that text which says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau have I hated.'"
"Why?"
He replied, "I cannot see why God should hate Esau."
"Nay, I am not at all surprised that God hated Esau, but I am greatly amazed that God loved Jacob" - Spurgeon
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 5:18:33 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4504
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I also said that a believer is treating themself like an unbeliever if they do not enter this covenant with the church.
I just don't see this as being scriptural. Do you have support for this?
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 5:24:08 PM
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KuKu
Posts: 900
Joined: 5/20/2005
From: Somewhere out there
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dualaces123
" Are you saying that they had the right to treat us rudely because we did not sign a piece of paper stating we are members?? Or did I read it totally wrong? Please say I read that wrong.
Everyone that goes to a church has the right to be treated with respect whether they decide to become a member or not. "
I never said that anyone has a right to be rude (remember, we don't treat unbelievers rudely ... or at least we should not). I said that entering into a 2-way covenant with the Local Church is part of the duty and responsiblity of the believer. This is accomplished in the form of membership where you align yourself with a local church and fulfill your role attending, serving, giving, praying for leaders, etc and they perform their role, guiding, teaching, etc. Unbelievers are not allowed to join the local church. So, when you refrain from joining you are treating yourself as an unbeliever. Now, this doesn't mean that they ought to be rude. But the bible clearly teaches that there is a greater love among the brethern.
I am not a member of my church, as my church does not offer membership... if you attend, and are a believer, you are a part...
Can you quote me chapter and verse to support your opinion, please?
_____________________________
I have run out of creative siggies. Please make up your own and give the credit to me.
Got it, Buddy? 
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 6:17:22 PM
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dualaces123
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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" I am not a member of my church, as my church does not offer membership... if you attend, and are a believer, you are a part...
Can you quote me chapter and verse to support your opinion, please? "
Well, this would be more of an invisible membership. I am sure your church knows how many regular attenders it has. I would assume it knows when someone is visiting or not. Etc. Does it let vistors take part in any voting? Probably not. So in a sense there is still membership, whether it is called that or not. And probably certain things are expected of regular visitors, such as ministering to others, etc.
A few people want scriptural support for membership.
First, the word does not occur (that i can remember) so the word is not what is important. It is the concept. However, there are various passages that strongly suggest that there is some sort of Formalality to joining the church. The excommunication or disfellowshipping with the person in 1Cor 5 presupposes that there was some sort of established membership or belonging to before he was removed.
The fact that the early church knew how many believers were part is important because A) they often met in houses so not all people were together at once. There had to be some way to track the people in order for numbers like this to be known. Furthermore, since they still met at the temple often they had to be able to distinguish between people who were part of the True religion and who were not.
Widows that were Part of the Church and on the LIST presupposes some sort of list or formal organization that was involved.
etc.
Again, it is not so important that it is called membership, simply that there is some formal recognition with by the believer to Join the church and support it in their duties (ministering, giving, praying for leaders, various other things mentioned in scripture) and the response by the Church to fulfill its roles (to lead, support, teach, preach, etc). If you want to call it BaBaLou then that would be fine. Again, it is not the name I am attached to.
Also, at least 1800 years of church history confirms this practice.
_____________________________
"I hate that text which says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau have I hated.'"
"Why?"
He replied, "I cannot see why God should hate Esau."
"Nay, I am not at all surprised that God hated Esau, but I am greatly amazed that God loved Jacob" - Spurgeon
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 6:19:31 PM
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dualaces123
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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"' People become members so they can vote on topics, teach childrens church, be a leader in a youth group etc etc. "
Well those are benefits of being formally apart of the church. You are aligning yourself with the leadership, agreeing to doctrine, etc. However, you are right, people should not do it Simply so that they can vote, teach children, etc.
Also - the signing of papers is not important. If you want to get a tattoo or something as a sign then that would be fine with me. The best is probably to be baptized into the church (assuming you are joining right after conversion). Baptism into the community is the best sign.
_____________________________
"I hate that text which says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau have I hated.'"
"Why?"
He replied, "I cannot see why God should hate Esau."
"Nay, I am not at all surprised that God hated Esau, but I am greatly amazed that God loved Jacob" - Spurgeon
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 7:20:38 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4504
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Being baptized does nothing to make a person a member of a church. Baptism is the outward expression of inward salvation. Salvation in Christ by grace is what brings folks into the Body.
The fact that you are saved makes you part of the Body of Christ and thus you are my brother/sister. If you were to enter the doors of my local church, you would be treated with the same love as other believers.
You have provided information which certainly supports believers being active participants of a local church family (of which no one argued against), but nothing to support that a person must form a unique covenant, in addition to salvation, with a local body, and if they don’t they are treating themselves as unbelievers. Adding a special covenant is extra-biblical. It is something that many churches do, and there isn’t anything essentially wrong with it, but there is something wrong with making that covenant the determinant factor in whether a fellow believer will be considered part of the brethren.
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 9:58:19 PM
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lmwal931
Posts: 96
Joined: 4/16/2005
Status: offline
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well, the problem is that the church members are not perfect.
we GO to church to try to learn to follow JESUS. some do and some
don't. this is\can be a problem in most churches. i was a conservative
in a church with a liberal pastor. we could write a book on this subject.
to have a thick skin is the best remedy. and you will never be perfect
anyway. marv
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 10:17:25 PM
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dualaces123
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I won't hijack this thread anymore but I will quickly respond while I am here.
"Being baptized does nothing to make a person a member of a church."
I never said that it did.
"Baptism is the outward expression of inward salvation."
I've been trying to find this verse for quite a while. Everyone quotes it like it is the bible ... i must have missing pages in mine.
"Salvation in Christ by grace is what brings folks into the Body. "
Well clearly. I would never dare to say other wise. However, even you would be quick to note the distinctions between the invisble church and the local church.
"well, the problem is that the church members are not perfect. "
Amen. Once we realize this and then start to focus on ourselves, it makes a lot of our supposed problems disappear.
_____________________________
"I hate that text which says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau have I hated.'"
"Why?"
He replied, "I cannot see why God should hate Esau."
"Nay, I am not at all surprised that God hated Esau, but I am greatly amazed that God loved Jacob" - Spurgeon
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 11:18:35 PM
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steelgirl
Posts: 11
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline
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I have a friend who sits near people. where if the head pastor does not preach, people start booing which is very rude. I love the head pasor, however there are some other wonderfully annointed speakers who I can be blessed by as well.
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 11:23:28 PM
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John in the VW Bus
Posts: 63
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
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I hate it when you're talking to someone at church and they change the subject to whatever it is that THEY want to talk about. Sorta like hijacking a thread on a message board, it just drives me nuts.
So what do you think of George Bush's nomination for the Supreme Court?
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/4/2005 11:24:59 PM
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steelgirl
Posts: 11
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
Ha! I've been going to a church to help temporarily with music and I'll have to say that it really hurts me (my ears) to hear tone deaf folks who are allowed to sing specials. I had a tear rolling down my face recently and it was not because I was moved with awe or compassion but with pain. It's 2 or 3 minutes of absolute agony! I know that they were making a joyful noise unto the Lord but couldn't they do this in shower instead? 
I go to a big church where you have to addition in order to sing in the choir and on the praise teams. The church is very big. I love music and love to praise God, but I would not be doing anyone a favor by being in the choir or on the praise team.
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/5/2005 12:12:08 AM
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steelgirl
Posts: 11
Joined: 6/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Walker311
Ok from the poll it seems that the most votes are for It's too cold in there and the reason the thermostat is turned down is so church folk will stay awake. You think I'm kiddin but I don't kid around about cold churches because I've been in too many services where the temp was just right and some folks would be so comfortable that they would start snoring. 
I make sure I have a long sleeve denim shirt, a jacket, or a cardigan when it warm outside because chances are it will be cold inside. I know on Christmas Eve, that I probably will not be able to wear my formal for the dress is Short Sleeve, even though it is winter.
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/5/2005 12:42:43 AM
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dualaces123
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Can I whine about their being too many whiners in the church?
:)
_____________________________
"I hate that text which says, 'Jacob I loved, but Esau have I hated.'"
"Why?"
He replied, "I cannot see why God should hate Esau."
"Nay, I am not at all surprised that God hated Esau, but I am greatly amazed that God loved Jacob" - Spurgeon
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RE: The Never-ending Christian Whiners Thread - 10/5/2005 12:21:25 PM
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salos
Posts: 168
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline
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I recently visited a church in Texas. When they announced that the associate pastor was going to preach, there was a ripple of positive comments that went around the sanctuary. It was nice.
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