CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering Heaven?
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CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering Heaven? - 11/22/2009 2:16:26 PM
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pink..
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
I believe you. But I've found it much easier to leave the "who gets to heaven" question to God and simply focus on Him.
me too.
_____________________________
Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin and an antiseptic.
~ John Henry Jowett
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/22/2009 7:31:58 PM
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cornergas
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In 1st John the Apostle says ..sin is transgression of the law..which in James is referred to as the law of liberty the ten commandments. Paul says in his writings in Hebrews 6 and 10, that once we are saved, and we sin, there is no more salvation, Jesus cannot be crucified again for our sins, He already paid the price!..Sounds serious doesn't?
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath of keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 3:09:37 AM
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7OFUS
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quote:
In 1st John the Apostle says ..sin is transgression of the law..which in James is referred to as the law of liberty the ten commandments. Paul says in his writings in Hebrews 6 and 10, that once we are saved, and we sin, there is no more salvation, Jesus cannot be crucified again for our sins, He already paid the price!..Sounds serious doesn't?
Hello cornergas
This is false. 1John 1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Also
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagerism;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 8:25:22 AM
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rcjames
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In a letter written to Christians Paul says;
(Gal 5:16) This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
(Gal 5:17) For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
(Gal 5:18) But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
(Gal 5:19) Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
(Gal 5:20) Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
(Gal 5:21) Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 10:07:53 AM
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sen10tious
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1 John 5:17 says -- All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.
Hebrews 6:4-6 says -- For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Someday I'd like to do a word study on "inherit" and see how that applies. There are all sizes of inheritances.
But at this point in my time and studies, I am inclined to think that people who are once saved and have also tasted "the powers of the age to come" still have free choice. In other words, it is impossible to accidently lose salvation, but you can consciously throw away a new-birthright.
I also think that some people will actually make it to heaven, but there will not be much left of their inheritance because of their sin on earth. I think the examples from the parables where talents and cities are taken from one person and redistributed sort of support this.
There are some people who have so villainously lied (and chosen to maintain the lie with full knowledge,) that Jesus would not be able to say, "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." The best they could get would be a "They knew exactly what they did, but let them in anyway; they trusted in me even though they didn't listen very well." I hope that the people who have knowingly lied about me will have their talents and cities docked from their Bank of Heaven account and deposited in mine.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15 says -- each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
So it if gets burned up and not re-deposited to me, that's a pity, but I will console myself that at least justice was done.
I don't think there will be money as we know it in heaven, but I do think that there will be rewards, ranks, and levels of honor. The liars, thieves, murderers, etc. may get to heaven as forgiven, but find that their "mansion" there is more of an efficiency apartment because their inheritance was so small.
Granted this is a lot of speculation extrapolated from a dozen or so verses, but it suits my need for justice at the moment. The sin that will stop people from entering heaven is to not choose Jesus. I think that even people who have "never heard" would be able to recognize Truth, Light, and Love if they spent their earth years looking for Him.
edited to correct a transposed copy & paste
< Message edited by sen10tious -- 11/24/2009 10:37:12 AM >
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 1:49:55 PM
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favoredwiththelord
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won"t you be judged by the ten commandments
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1Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 7:55:11 PM
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cornergas
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7ofUS ... I certainly wish you were correct, would make things a lot easier however, what you are referring to is prior to salvation..the passages I quoted are after you are saved..you should actually refer to the sections quoted and read them in your Bible and you will see the difference..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 7:58:11 PM
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cornergas
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favouredwiththe lord..Romans 14, and 2nd Corinthians 5 and James 2 all agree with you..we will all be judged by the ten commandments!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 8:01:18 PM
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its_GO_time
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quote:
ORIGINAL: favoredwiththelord
won"t you be judged by the ten commandments
Matt 22
36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
_____________________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-Thomas Paine
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/24/2009 11:14:54 PM
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7OFUS
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quote:
7ofUS ... I certainly wish you were correct, would make things a lot easier however, what you are referring to is prior to salvation..the passages I quoted are after you are saved..you should actually refer to the sections quoted and read them in your Bible and you will see the difference..
cornergas,
are you saying that once one becomes saved and they sin they are lost forever?
1John 2:1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
Why would John call them "his little children" (also in verse 7) "Brethren" if they weren't of the same faith as he?
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagerism;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 1:19:17 PM
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cornergas
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7ofus..are you saying you can keep sinning and enter Heaven? If we continue to sin we are not saved in the first place..and sin is transgression of the law..as per Apostle John. Yes John says we have an advocate, and we are to keep praying for strength to God, through Jesus as the advocate, for strength to not sin, and thereby have salvation..As Matthew 10 (22) says..he who endures to the end will be saved, and as Paul says in Phillipians 2 (12) work out your salvation with fear and trembling!
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 1:24:48 PM
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cornergas
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its_Go_time..Those two great commandments are summaries of the ten commandments..Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind is summary of the first four, and Love thy neighbour as thyself is a summary of the last six...Jesus illustrates that when He explains, that it is not only okay to keep the physical law, but must also keep the spirit of he law..adultery..in thoughts, murder in thoughts through hate etc..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 2:22:48 PM
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poetessfree
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I don't try to speculate or point to any one sin. Sin is sin.
Matth 7:21--Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
But right before that verse is this:
Mat 7:13- Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14- Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
I think there is grave error in the Body of Christ today when they say that just because you confess Jesus as Savior, you are saved forever and going to heaven. What did the Scripture just read above? Not everyone who says Lord is going to heaven. Just because a serial killer accepts Jesus because he got "caught", is saved. God knows and searches the heart and knows if true repentance, sorrow, regret of sinning is there. Not everyone who says that they are Christians and have been saved for upteen years is guaranteed heaven either. So what does the Word say?
It says narrow is the way, that means not a lot of people are going into the kingdom. That may be a tough pill to swallow but it is nonetheless written and altogether true.
The way I live is this. I try with everything in my to live by Scripture. But do I get upset and swear every once in awhile when someone nearly kills me on the road? Yes. Do I think unkind thoughts sometimes? Yes. But here is the thing. I repent immediately. Not before I lay down to sleep. Immediately. And say, I am an unprofitable servant, cleanse me from all unrighteous thoughts, behavior and words right now Lord! And then I try to go as long as I can without sinning. But when I wake up every morning, I thank God because I have another chance to be better than I was yesterday. I have another chance to make my Father proud of me so that He will say "well done, thou good & faithful servant". It is hard but it is do-able. We must keep working to be better than yesterday in all aspects. Just keep working. Because I believe that it is that "effort" to do good- is what pleases God our Father. For truly the way to destruction is wide and not everyone who claims salvation is heaven bound. That is truth. I include myself. I do tremble as I work out my salvation because I am not worthy so I try even harder to do those thinks which are written in Scripture and I thank God for His Holy Spirit, our Comforter and Helper for without him, it would be hard indeed.
_____________________________
"cute and cuddly boys" skipper
"Doctrine of Christ everywhere teaches self-denial and mortification of worldliness and sin...never makes the death of Christ a cloak to cover sin, but speaks of it as an instrument that destroys it". John Flavel
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 2:38:56 PM
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Giuliano
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I like this text. It tells us who is going be "in."
Matthew 25: 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come , ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred , and ye gave me meat : I was thirsty , and ye gave me drink : I was a stranger, and ye took me in :
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick , and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying , Lord, when saw we thee an hungred , and fed thee? or thirsty , and gave thee drink ?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in ? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed , into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred , and ye gave me no meat : I was thirsty , and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying , Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying , Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
What is the point of saying we accept Jesus or have faith in him if we are not willing to love God and our fellow man? What kind of faith is that?
Be on guard. We stand in jeopardy daily.
I Corinthians 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
We should be grateful when God shows us our flaws, so we can repent of them; and we should die daily to that nature as the Holy Spirit reveals our flaws to us. If we do not, we are in greater jeopardy.
God's most severe punishment is reserved for His unfaithful servants. Jesus spoke of this many times.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 5:08:00 PM
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Kath
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To any non-Christians tempted to post in this thread:
CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering Heaven?
This is from the OP. If you are not a Christian then you do not meet the guidelines set out in the OP and you are disrupting conversation by throwing in comments that have nothing to do with the OP.
If you are not a Christian then please do not respond to this topic. Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
< Message edited by Kath -- 11/28/2009 8:25:37 PM >
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 6:04:26 PM
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7OFUS
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quote:
7ofus..are you saying you can keep sinning and enter Heaven? If we continue to sin we are not saved in the first place..and sin is transgression of the law..as per Apostle John. Yes John says we have an advocate, and we are to keep praying for strength to God, through Jesus as the advocate, for strength to not sin, and thereby have salvation..As Matthew 10 (22) says..he who endures to the end will be saved, and as Paul says in Phillipians 2 (12) work out your salvation with fear and trembling!
cornergas,
No. I don't believe that we "sin so that grace may abound," also, I believe that faith without works is dead faith.
I do believe our sinful flesh wars with our spirit and we fail from time to time; though we have power to overcome sin and we should be sinning less and less continually.
My question to you is; it seemed from your first post that you were saying if once you are saved and then sin, then there is no more salvation and you are lost forever. If you meant continual unrepentant sin, then we are in agreement. If you meant any sin at all then we are not.
Also yes we are judged by the ten commandments and we are all guilty.
Fortunately for us there is Romans 3:28 "For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law"
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagerism;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 6:11:27 PM
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7OFUS
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quote:
What is the point of saying we accept Jesus or have faith in him if we are not willing to love God and our fellow man? What kind of faith is that?
Be on guard. We stand in jeopardy daily.
I Corinthians 15:30 And why stand we in jeopardy every hour?
31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
We should be grateful when God shows us our flaws, so we can repent of them; and we should die daily to that nature as the Holy Spirit reveals our flaws to us. If we do not, we are in greater jeopardy.
God's most severe punishment is reserved for His unfaithful servants. Jesus spoke of this many times.
Giuliano,
Amen
_____________________________
If you copy one person they call it plagerism;
if you copy many people they call it research.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/25/2009 6:13:37 PM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 685
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cornergas
its_Go_time..Those two great commandments are summaries of the ten commandments..Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind is summary of the first four, and Love thy neighbour as thyself is a summary of the last six...Jesus illustrates that when He explains, that it is not only okay to keep the physical law, but must also keep the spirit of he law..adultery..in thoughts, murder in thoughts through hate etc..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
It sounds to me, that if I love The Lord, with all my heart, and love my neighbor, as myself, then no law applies. If I live life by the Spirit, there is no law against me, for it is Christ who lives through me, as Paul says. Without Christ, the 10 commandments are the "plumb line against a crooked wall", as J Vernon MacGee describes it.
_____________________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-Thomas Paine
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 1:08:44 AM
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cornergas
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James said..faith without works is dead..
Jesus said..if you love me keep my commandments
Jesus said..to enter into life keep the commandments
John said..sin is transgresson of the law
John said..those who say they know Him and keep not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all!
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 1:39:00 AM
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michele_erin
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quote:
I know this is a crazy thought and question. I already know what many of your think.
Most Christians will make every effort to not sin. However, we all know what we wrestle with.
All of the people in these scenarios are Christians, committed certain sins, then died immediately.
You committed adultery
You watched a XXX porn movie
You molested a child
You stole a very expensive item
You told a blatant lie
You are a fornicator
You murdered you wife's lover
You sold drugs to minors to make money
You have never told anyone anywhere that you were a Christian
Which one will God ok and then you can enter heaven?
Going back to the original question, the scripture that came to mind was Matthew 12:31-32 Jesus says "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come." The notes in my John MacArthur study bible say "The sin He was confronting was the Pharisees' deliberate rejection of that which they knew to be of God (John 11:48; Acts 4:16). They could not deny the reality of what the Holy Spirit had done through Him so they attributed to Satan a work that they knew was of God (v. 24; Mark 3:22)." v. 32 notes "Someone never exposed to Christ's divine power and presence might reject Him in ignorance and be forgiven -- assuming the unbelief gives way to genuine repentance. Even a Pharisee such as Saul of Tarsus could be forgiven for speaking "against the Son of Man " or persecuting His followers -- because his unbelief stemmed from ignorance (1 Tim. 1:13). But those who know His claims are true and reject Him anyway sin "against the Holy Spirit" -- because it is the Holy Spirit who testifies of Christ and makes His truth known to us (John 15:26, 16:14, 15). No forgiveness was possible for these Pharisees who witnessed His miracles first hand, knew the truth of His claims, and still blasphemed the Holy Spirit -- because they had already rejected the fullest possible revelation."
[edited by moderator]
I am a Christian and I would like to respond to this post, and comments made since the original post:
First of all, I believe that John was speaking to Believers in 1, 2 and 3rd John -- I believe this because of 1 John 5:13 states "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." [The italicized portion was in my bible] -- So it was emphasized that they would "continue" to believe in the name of the Son of God, which means that they already believed in the Son of God because if they did not believe in the Son of God they would not "continue" to believe -- they would "come" to believe. So when John says "these things I have written you" -- I believe that he is speaking of the previous chapters of John (chapts. 1-5), of which includes 1 John 1:8-10 that states "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." (Interesting to note that he says twice that if we say that we have not sinned...)
In my John MacArthur study bible, it goes on in the notes in describing verse 1:8-10 "Not only did the false teachers walk in darkness (i.e. sin, v. 6) but went so far as to deny totally the existence of a sin nature in their lives. If someone never admits to being a sinner, salvation cannot result (see Matt. 19:16-22 for the account of the young man who refused to recognize his sin). Not only did the false teachers make false claims to fellowship and disregard sin (v. 6), they are also characterized by deceit regarding sinlessness (Ecc. 7:20; Rom. 3:23)." Notes from v. 9 "Continual confession of sin is an indication of genuine salvation. While the false teachers would not admit their sin, the genuine Christian admitted and forsook it (Ps. 32:3-5; Prov. 28:13). The term "confess" means to say the same thing about sin as God does; to acknowledge His perspective about sin. While verse 7 is from God's perspective, v. 9 is from the Christian's perspective. Confession of sin characterizes genuine Christians, and God continually cleanses those who are confessing (v. 7). Rather than focusing on confession for every single sin as necessary, John has especially in mind here a settled recognition and acknowledgement that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness (Eph. 4:32; Col 2:13)." Notes from v. 10 say "Since God has said that all people are sinners (Ps. 14:3, 51:5; Is. 53:6; Jer. 17:5, 6; Rom 3:10-19, 23; 6:23), to deny that fact is to blaspheme God with slander that defames His name."
1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." The notes in my study bible state "Although a Christian must continually acknowledge and confess sin (1:9), he is not powerless against it. Fulfilling the duty of confession does not give license to sin. Sin can and should be conquered through the power of the Holy Spirit."
I do not believe John is speaking to non-believers, and I believe this because he says in 1 John 5:13 "these things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God" -- believe being present tense. In addition, in my John MacArthur study bible he states in his notes pertaining to verses 5:13: "While John wrote his gospel to bring unbelievers to faith (John 20:31), he wrote the epistle to give believers confidence that they possessed eternal life. The false brethren's departure left John's congregations shaken (2:19). He assured those who remained that since they adhered to the fundamentals of the faith (a proper view of Christ, obedience, love) their salvation was sure."
quote:
In 1st John the Apostle says ..sin is transgression of the law..which in James is referred to as the law of liberty the Ten Commandments. Paul says in his writings in Hebrews 6 and 10, that once we are saved, and we sin, there is no more salvation, Jesus cannot be crucified again for our sins, He already paid the price!..Sounds serious doesn't?
So my impression of what you are saying cornergas is that once we become Believers and we sin, there is no hope for us. We sin once, we're done and going to hell. If my impression of what you have said is incorrect, please enlighten me. If that is what you are saying, then that goes against everything I've ever been taught. Based upon my belief of what you have said, at this point, why should I try anymore to continue to do what I perceive as the will of God? Why should I pursue a relationship with Him anymore? Why not just turn back to my old way of life because at this point, according to you, I'm going to hell. Because since I became a Christian and when I was a very baby Christian, new in the faith, I stumbled around a lot. I was always repentant as soon as the Lord revealed to me my sin. As I've grown in the Lord, I stumble less and less.
I would like to ask you cornergas -- you mean to tell me that you have not sinned AT ALL since you became a Believer? You've never gossiped? lusted in your heart or mind? gotten angry? been jealous? envious? coveted? been selfish in your ambitions? idolatry? not trusted God? worried? etc? You've not done any of these since becoming a Christian? If my impression of what I believe you to be saying is correct, then I believe what you are saying is a false teaching and could lead others, especially young Christians, astray -- cause people to get hopeless and lose faith in their belief in Jesus Christ.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
[edited by moderator to remove quotation and response to moderator nudge]
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 11/27/2009 12:26:53 AM >
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 8:47:37 AM
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Giuliano
Posts: 42
Joined: 11/23/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 7OFUS
quote:
In 1st John the Apostle says ..sin is transgression of the law..which in James is referred to as the law of liberty the ten commandments. Paul says in his writings in Hebrews 6 and 10, that once we are saved, and we sin, there is no more salvation, Jesus cannot be crucified again for our sins, He already paid the price!..Sounds serious doesn't?
Hello cornergas
This is false. 1John 1:9 If we confess our sins He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Also
1Jn 2:1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
May I ask how you read Hebrews 6 and 10? I can tell you how I do, but I'd like to hear your views also if you have a different take.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
I think many of our sins are sins of ignorance, the result of not knowing any better; and when we are shown how those sins injure others and ourselves, we then know better. We have repented and been forgiven and certainly know how those sins are wicked. To turn to such sins again is a horrible thing; but I don't think most Christians struggling with a particular sin have come to a state of "enlightenment" about it. They may believe something is a sin but not understand why. Thus, they can still be fooled about it.
Note too that the text does not say mercy and forgiveness would be impossible. It says it can become impossible for some people to repent if they continue to do things they understand to be wrong and why it's wrong. Their hearts can become too hard to want to repent.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
I believe this we need to distinguish between sins of ignorance and weakness, and sins of wilfullness when we also know the truth; and it seems to me that most sins are about things we don't quite understand yet.
If we are told not to steal and do not, that is good; but what if we are tempted to steal? If we do not think about how stealing affects others and us too, we will continue to want to steal. It ruins friendships, trust, etc. Stealing isn't good for anyone, not even the thief although it seems so to him. But he has received this knowledge and knows how stealing injures others as well as himself and then steals again, I see no hope for him. God will not help him; Jesus will not; and I would not. He's on his own. The text does not say he's totally without hope. But he's on his own, at least in the area where he sinned after receiving the truth.
I can't read this to mean that this person is automatically doomed for failing in one sin. I think God will help him with other things; but he's on his own where he's known the truth of God and rejected it. Jesus may not pay that debt -- that person may have to pay it himself to the last farthing. We should not look at forgiveness and "take it for granted." That is a sin by itself, the sin of presumption.
I do not think Hebrews contradicts the passages you gave from John's Epistle. If the heart is willing to repent, the person obviously has not reached the stage where it is impossible to repent. But let us be clear, when we repent, it isn't a con job. We are supposed to be sincere, wish we hadn't done it, and that means we won't do it again. The point of repentence is to become a better person, not to con God into forgiving us when we don't regret our misdeeds.
< Message edited by Giuliano -- 11/26/2009 8:57:28 AM >
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 9:58:18 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 685
Status: offline
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quote:
May I ask how you read Hebrews 6 and 10? I can tell you how I do, but I'd like to hear your views also if you have a different take.
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
My Take:
The writer(many say Paul), was addressing Jews, of the danger of putting their faith in the observances, sacrifices, of the old Mosaic system, after putting their faith in Christ. Christ, and Christ alone, is your source of strength, forgivness, guidence, life. Seeking any other source, is apostasy.
_____________________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-Thomas Paine
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 10:14:09 AM
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BelleWeather
Posts: 1478
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: New York City
Status: offline
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After reading another disagreeable thread, I'm glad that duelling Christian ideologies and flaming each other with Bible verses won't determine who gets into heaven.
_____________________________
There's a crack in everything.
That's how the light get's in.
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 10:21:45 AM
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its_GO_time
Posts: 685
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BelleWeather
After reading another disagreeable thread, I'm glad that duelling Christian ideologies and flaming each other with Bible verses won't determine who gets into heaven.
Personally, I see nothing disagreeable about it. But, I'm sure way back when, the folks said the same thing about Jeremiah, Amos, and others, who were 'flaming' the Israelites, though.
_____________________________
"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one."
-Thomas Paine
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RE: CHRISTIANS: What Sin Will Stop You From Entering He... - 11/26/2009 1:49:07 PM
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michele_erin
Posts: 180
Joined: 5/8/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
After reading another disagreeable thread, I'm glad that duelling Christian ideologies and flaming each other with Bible verses won't determine who gets into heaven.
I personally do not see anything wrong with having a good, healthy dialogue. That is what I see this as. Christians coming together and discussing the word. The Word refers to this as "iron sharpening iron" -- that's pretty hard and rough, if you really think about it -- not comfortable. Therefore, sometimes conversations amongst believers may be uncomfortable, but I think its good! How else can we learn more, learn from each other -- there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nobody is calling anyone names -- just good, healthy discussion.
I still love all my brothers and sisters here, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to agree with everything they say -- and that should be okay. We can agree to disagree, and still move on in love. If you're reading this as people yelling back and forth, look at it from a different perspective, people discussing things (maybe even heated, but not angrily) back and forth to get to truth. That's how I see many of these discussions. God bless.
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