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To Pastors: - 11/5/2009 11:22:54 AM
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jake7363
Posts: 1
Joined: 4/7/2007
Status: offline
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Hello,
I am addressing this to Pastors. This is a layman's experience and not meant to offend, provoke or antagonize, although it might be confrontational.
My background as a servant in Christ extends over 25 years and as I have learned much, I continue to learn. Like Paul, I perceive myself as the greatest of sinners and like David, my sins are ever before my eyes. As I write this I pray the Lord keep me humble so as not to seek attention for myself but rather to illustrate an area where the Body of Christ can grow.
To begin, my wife and I are not experiencing the joy and fullness that we had hoped for in the Church we are now attending. Faithfully, we contacted the Pastor, invited him to our house a couple of times and met outside our home a couple of times as well to discuss the issues. The net result is that while he was patient and listened, he did not hear. Part of the problem is that the congregation is not well informed about the Bible and he does what is minimally necessary to speak on the Bible, so that many do not realize what is occurring behind the scenes that is preventing us from having a truly Spirit-filled Church.
No doubt, some of the Pastors are already zooming in on me, trying to find my motivation behind why I am saying these things, assuming that there is something wrong with me. And THAT is part of the problem. That is a recurring tendency by many Pastors. Without hearing the entire story, I am already being judged. For those who are reading this who have not done this, thank you. I will continue.
So, because we got nowhere with our Pastor and the community at large has no concept of what they are missing, I have not shared this with anyone because I do not want to cause division; I only want the problem healed. We prayed and ultimately discerned that perhaps it was my delivery in speaking with the Pastor that might be a difficulty. I then contacted two other Pastors from other Churches a distatnce away so as not to run the risk of knowing of which Church I would be speaking. However, it really never got that far.
The first Pastor I spoke with never let me finish a sentence and although I requested an appointment, I received a phone interview. Naturally, he was defending my Pastor's position - but without allowing me to verbalize what in fact I was seeking. I was basically put in a context indicating that I am concerned over trivials. Well, of course that is what he would think based on the fact that I was only able to speak the start of a sentence, never being allowed to finish a thought. The next Pastor, I didn't even get that far. I left a voicemail requesting an appointment to "discuss a matter of importance to my wife and myself." That was three days ago and I never received a response. The recorded outgoing message did not indicate that he was out of the office or on vacation. In this age of technology, we are all aware of phone protocol, so I would expect my reasoning is accurate.
Pastors, I know you are thinking that you are only getting part of the picture, and that is correct. To go into all the issues would make this far longer than it already is. I am not speaking to personal preferences or biases, I am not talking about gossip or nit-picky stuff. Nor am I trying to "build a case" or cause dissension. We want to be fed, serve, give, grow and be joyful. None of that is occurring due to the fact that there are legitmate problems prohibiting those desires.
Please trust the fact that I have no desire to harm or malign the Lord's anointed and that I have the utmost respect for the calling. It is a calling for which I do not possess the gifts or temperment. Equally, I am grateful to the Pastors who serve so dilligently. But I must confess that as I hear statistics of divorce rates, sexual offenses, misappropriation of funds and many other crimes that are on par with the secular world, I must realize that something is wrong. I seek leadership from Pastors as well as seek to be challenged and held accountable. But I don't see or hear a lot about that from the pulpit....there are a few, but just a few. Granted, I am not in all the churches throughout our nation, but the statistics are national and their symptoms are not local to my community.
All I wanted to do by contacting the Pastors as part of our discerning process is what the Lord wants me to do and in His way. Because I don't have all the answers, I sought those who might help...only to be left disappointed. I know that Pastors have a tough road for the most part. Yet I often hear a kind of jaded thinking towards the congregations that feels unhealthy. Are we, the secular, becoming the enemy to Pastors? Are we becoming inconveniences to avoid or obstacles to agenda? Are we perceived like nagging toothaches that won't go away so that some strategy must be affected in order to get rid of the toothache? I have heard from more than one source that a tactic by Pastors is to simply not answer a question that is uncomfortable, in the expectation that it will go away. Yes, there are cranks and malcontents out there and I expect some of you think the same way about this author. There are kinder ways to deal with such people and know that such a tactic is a form of abuse. It is passive aggressive behavior. Is that REALLY the way Jesus would handle the problem?
Pastors, we the secular are full of sin and like sheep, we are dumb and need guidance and a strong hand at times. But we are not all that dumb so that we do not know when something is amiss. We look to you for guidance, trust and growth. We look for and need to give our best. Are you giving us your best?
As for my situation, I have no idea what is going to happen or how so that my wife and I can serve in joy and confidence. But you Pastors are given a sacred and special calling...feed His sheep.
If anyone wants to discuss this further, that is fine, but I will not be back to read. Either what is said here is heard or it is not, that is between the readers and the Lord.
Love and Peace of the Lord be with you,
Your simple servant.
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/5/2009 11:38:48 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6717
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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And what is this great revelation to which you are privy that your Pastor does not seem to be over excited about.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/5/2009 11:51:02 AM
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PastorSteveMT
Posts: 109
Joined: 5/27/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jake7363
If anyone wants to discuss this further, that is fine, but I will not be back to read. Either what is said here is heard or it is not, that is between the readers and the Lord.
As a pastor I'm certainly interested in what you have to say. But I will say that based on the comment I quoted above, it appears that you have no desire for working anything out or through. Rather, you appear to be someone who wants to stand on a soap box, tout your claims then run off and hide to avoid hearing anything contrary to your thoughts.
I think you bring up valid points, but once again, I will not attempt to address any of them with someone who has admitted to not being interested in dialog.
Therefore, if you happen to read by mere chance, perhaps you might consider asking yourself what your motivation really is.
A person who desires to state problems, but has no interest in trying to work out a solution is simply a busy body in my opinion.
Just my two cents.
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/5/2009 12:19:53 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10985
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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Huh?
Here is all I found in that post that details what is wrong: "Part of the problem is that the congregation is not well informed about the Bible and he does what is minimally necessary to speak on the Bible, so that many do not realize what is occurring behind the scenes that is preventing us from having a truly Spirit-filled Church."
Not only did the OP say this is only "part of the problem," but I'm not sure what exactly he means - what IS this problem? Is the pastor (and other pastors) preaching a watered down Christianity? What is occurring "behind the scenes that is preventing us from having a truly Spirit-filled church"?
I'm not judging whether the OP's position is right or wrong; I don't know what the OP's position IS.
_____________________________
LibriVox: acoustical liberation of books in the public domain
(Avatar: Turkeys are all saying "Moo")
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/5/2009 2:24:33 PM
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Phulish
Posts: 93
Joined: 4/4/2008
Status: offline
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Pastors are good for pastoring. They were never meant to be the "be-all" of church headship. Because the system is flawed to their benefit they'll naturally protect their turf just like any company CEO would. "Be careful of those prophets and teachers and other people with great and innovative ideas." ...or maybe the guy did come off wrong and his ideas are bad and so they did the right thing. :)
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/6/2009 7:06:48 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 332
Joined: 9/18/2007
Status: offline
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If the message you left on the answering machine of the other Pastor was anything like this posting, I just can’t imagine why he wouldn’t have rushed to return your call…
As far as that goes, you call our Church and leave a message on the phone, don’t expect a response right away, we are there Wednesday night and Sunday. We have no paid staff answering the phone.
Perhaps you should pray that the Lord will lead you to a fellowship that is worthy of your acceptance…
See why folks need to pray for their Pastor?
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
Seems a lot of people watch evangelist on TV and call it going to church.
My kids use to play Mario Cart and think they where driving…
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/6/2009 11:08:24 AM
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mosess8
Posts: 66
Joined: 11/6/2009
Status: offline
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25 years in Christ.......reread your own post and you will realize that you are not living up to your own standards. Your posting has no biblical references of a pastors responsibilites to a flock in any sense.
You may be uncomfortable because you are not doing whjat God has called you to do, so you could be projecting it onto others.
Get before the Lord and do not inquire as to whether you should stay at this church or leave. Rather inquire how best you can serve.
If you occupy your own life in service to others you will not have so much emotional energy or time to reflect on the shortcomings of those who do serve.
Your pastor may be as incompetent as you described, however we do not see his posting. A good pastor would not counsel you on other people's problems, a good pastor would only try to discern where youare spiritually and challenge you to come up higher.
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/6/2009 11:47:56 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1406
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
So, because we got nowhere with our Pastor and the community at large has no concept of what they are missing, I have not shared this with anyone because I do not want to cause division; I only want the problem healed. We prayed and ultimately discerned that perhaps it was my delivery in speaking with the Pastor that might be a difficulty. I then contacted two other Pastors from other Churches a distatnce away so as not to run the risk of knowing of which Church I would be speaking. However, it really never got that far.
So, you are the only one in this church who sees a problem with this pastor and his teaching? If there were others, then I'm sure you would have taken them with you to confront him after you got no satisfaction from the initial contact.
You didn't want to cause division, so you then took your issue with your pastor outside your church to two other pastors? Please show me in the Bible where you find that this is scriptural.
Perhaps if you were as wrong as I think you were in the way you handled this, you could possibly be wrong about your pastor's teaching...just sayin! 
Edited for spelling.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 11/6/2009 11:54:58 AM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/6/2009 4:25:19 PM
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cwb
Posts: 143
Joined: 1/15/2007
From: Eastern NC
Status: offline
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Welcome onto the boards there!
I'm not an ordained pastor, so I hope you're not offended that I post.
The pastor is a spiritual chef. 6 days a week, you prepare your own spiritual food (reading the Word), and one day a week you go out to eat spiritual food.
In my opinion, if you don't like someone's spiritual cooking, you either discuss the ingredients with the chef (being KNOWLEDGEABLE yourself), or you eat elsewhere.
If it's truly spiritual poison (I didn't read your entire post), and others aren't knowing this, then you should speak publicly to the congregation about this (after speaking to the pastor), and then leave.
< Message edited by cwb -- 11/6/2009 4:31:54 PM >
_____________________________
We are to do the will of God from our heart. Eph Ch 6 v. 6
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RE: To Pastors: - 11/17/2009 1:57:11 AM
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Rev_Xtreme
Posts: 1
Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: offline
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Ok, so I've read what was put in the post...as well as the replies. The OP is not right, but is not entirely wrong. First, I am a pastor myself. While a new pastor, I've been preaching for 10 years now. We preachers do tend to "water down" our sermons. And yes, we do tend to slack in our duties as a minister. However, the fault lies equally on the church members. While we of the clothe are to hold the rest accountable, should they not hold us accountable as well?
Then, lets look at the fact that no matter how great the sermon is, how many go home and use what we learned? No, the problem lies in the fact that not just the sermons are watered down...our churches have been too!! We look and treat church more like a hobby or a club and less like what it should be. What should it be? It should be a group of people that come together to love the Lord, learn of Christ, and share that with the rest of the world. How can we sit in our pews and point at the world and the speck in their eyes, when we have a plank in our own eyes?! How can we talk of how the economy has fallen apart so bad, yet what do we do to better this country?
It is our job to lead, love, accept, have compassion, tell the truth, and live like Jesus. Still, we sit here and talk about it, while the world continues to forget of our Christ! No, it's not just us pastors, it is all of believers. If something isn't right in your soul...be bold and stand up, no matter who it's to. He died for us, can't we live for Him? Or have we fallen so far that we have forgotten how to?
God bless.
_____________________________
Rev. Xtreme
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