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RE: More and more government - 11/6/2009 11:44:18 AM
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NotreDame
Posts: 566
Joined: 4/14/2009
From: 5 hours south of the Golden Dome of Notre Dame
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Maintaining status quo, resisting change, unequal privileges and rights, etcetera.
Status quo...having a moral base.
Resisting change....not compromising with liberalism.
Unequal priveledges and rights....earning what you get and not pandering to immoral practices that are societal destructors.
Nice try.
NOT a "nice try," but RIGHT ON!
We either practice God's laws,
or oppose God's laws.
Practicing God's laws is not incompatible with compromising to liberalism, repudiating inequality in rights and privileges, and accepting change.
_____________________________
I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.
James Madison, Father of the U.S. Constitution.
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 7:55:44 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1894
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
having a moral base- imposing your religious ideas unconstitutionally on the public
As a christian, can you say there is a higher moral base than biblical truths? There is absolutely nothing in the constitution that bars someone's religious convictions from being an uinfluence on the laws we make. The only thing the constitution says is that government cannot set up religions.
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It also appears you have the idea compromising with liberalism is an inherent evil or something bad, but this is false.
The list is long, been done a million times here but in my mind there isn't anything godly about liberalism.
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Maintaining the status quo is not the equivalent of having a moral base.
Changing the morality situationally, just to change does not work. It either is moral or it is not. When we throw out time tested and biblical morality for the sake of change, we become more immoral.
Abortion.
Gay marriage.
Excessive punitive scapegoat taxations.
The ever increasing role of government in our lives including unlimited charity that enables and causes poverty, broad social programs like health care which have little to do with helping people and much more to do with taking over a huge financial chunk of the GNP.
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not compromising with liberalism- refusing to admit when you're wrong or to consider new or innovative ideas
When a liberal comes up with an innovative idea, I'll be able to sell insulated underwear in hell.
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flaunting wealth and ingoring the plight of those less fortunate
In other words...coveting.
Like...we don't spend trillions on social programs now?? Like I have said many times, the liberal programs is not to help people. Its to make them democrat voters and to create dependencies that people will think they need. Power.
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the religion of a jewish carpenter who spent most of his life with the poor, and people who had engaged in "practices that are societal destructors"
...and Jesus said, " Go forth and make a government program" Sorry, it ain't in the bible.
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How about resisting every single advance in human rights in the entire history of western civilization.
Republicans passed the Civil Rights act of '64.
Blacks were lynched after the Civil War for...wanting to be republicans.
Being gay is NOT a human right...or my bible lies.
Abortion is murder.
What human rights have republicans held back??
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 12:22:56 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3865
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
Excessive punitive scapegoat taxations.
The ever increasing role of government in our lives including unlimited charity that enables and causes poverty, broad social programs like health care which have little to do with helping people and much more to do with taking over a huge financial chunk of the GNP.
What do these have to do with biblical morality?
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Like...we don't spend trillions on social programs now?? Like I have said many times, the liberal programs is not to help people. Its to make them democrat voters and to create dependencies that people will think they need. Power.
What about the Republican programs? Is there purpose to make us vote Democrat?
I thought you were pretty much on except for those.
_____________________________
Thbbbt!!!!
A video of our cat and kitten:
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 1:31:34 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Changing the morality situationally, just to change does not work. It either is moral or it is not. When we throw out time tested and biblical morality for the sake of change, we become more immoral.
Even if you believe that morality is absolute, unchanging and unyielding, it does not mean that your understanding of it is correct.
Biblical justifications have been used for slavery, people against miscegenation, pogroms against Jews and keeping women unequal and unfree. These justifications were either reflective of God's absolute morality, or distortions of it, whether intentional or not.
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 1:36:27 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Republicans passed the Civil Rights act of '64.
Blacks were lynched after the Civil War for...wanting to be republicans.
Being gay is NOT a human right...or my bible lies.
Abortion is murder.
What human rights have republicans held back??
Fail. The subject you are responding to involves conservatives, not Republicans:
quote:
ORIGINAL: NotreDame
You are right Huang! Conservative today is synonymous with: Maintaining status quo, resisting change, unequal privileges and rights, etcetera.
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 2:15:38 PM
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rockominal
Posts: 664
Joined: 8/15/2007
From: Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Though of course these definitions are largely limited to America.
How do you know?
_____________________________
I might tell you the truth, or something pretty close to it. Jesus says, "I Am the Truth."
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 3:51:37 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
Though of course these definitions are largely limited to America.
How do you know?
I pay attention.
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 5:05:14 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2531
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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Technically the democrats passed it. The legislation was initiated at the request of Eisenhower. He put the commission together and was also largely responsible for racial integration of the army. Interesting guy but not representative of his party.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 8:39:21 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1894
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
Technically the democrats passed it. The legislation was initiated at the request of Eisenhower.
I thought LBJ was president in 1964...?
Were blacks lynched for wanting to be republicans after the Civil War?
More republicans voted for the Civil Rights act of 64 than democrats. Its fact.
If you see anything but racism in the democratic party then you are as blind as blind can be. Liberalism defines racism in its worst fashion.
If not, then why are so many people crying about racism today...with a black president? Its not about racial equality. Its about buying votes from the uneducated dependant fools who blindly follow the party that gives them money for being black.
That...is disgisting. Racist and proves the evil, satanic roots of liberalism.
Now we have the most racist president in office than any other in our nations history. His mentors include a sex and druig addict and a racist pastor. He spent most of his youth in a fogged out daze. He has no experience or ability and was elected by affirmitive action and white guilt.
So, go for more government. Bigger and bigger....but just remember one thing. All that power you are going to give to your messiah Obama...is gonna be in a republican's hands soon enough.
Think on that.
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 11/7/2009 8:46:45 PM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: More and more government - 11/7/2009 10:16:00 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Now we have the most racist president in office than any other in our nations history.
Now that's just trolling.
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RE: More and more government - 11/8/2009 11:58:41 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1894
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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No, that is fact.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 12:07:11 AM
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mosess8
Posts: 66
Joined: 11/6/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Technically the democrats passed it. The legislation was initiated at the request of Eisenhower.
I thought LBJ was president in 1964...?
Were blacks lynched for wanting to be republicans after the Civil War?
More republicans voted for the Civil Rights act of 64 than democrats. Its fact.
If you see anything but racism in the democratic party then you are as blind as blind can be. Liberalism defines racism in its worst fashion.
If not, then why are so many people crying about racism today...with a black president? Its not about racial equality. Its about buying votes from the uneducated dependant fools who blindly follow the party that gives them money for being black.
That...is disgisting. Racist and proves the evil, satanic roots of liberalism.
Now we have the most racist president in office than any other in our nations history. His mentors include a sex and druig addict and a racist pastor. He spent most of his youth in a fogged out daze. He has no experience or ability and was elected by affirmitive action and white guilt.
So, go for more government. Bigger and bigger....but just remember one thing. All that power you are going to give to your messiah Obama...is gonna be in a republican's hands soon enough.
Think on that.
Possibly the reason Black people like democrats is because democrats are always trying to level the playing field. For those blacks who would like to come up the door is opened. Republicans feel that the playing field need not be leveled. They feel that blackpeople have been let into the game and should be grateful to be there.
The problem is that Republicans are not vigorous about pioneering assimilation of blacks into the economic system. We let you in, now do something! Democrats know that it is not that simple. I believe Republicans know it too.
The government had to ascort those blacks into school in South Carolina because without thos eprotections they did not stand a chance. On a similar plain, the government has to escort those blacks who want it up to the corporate table. Otherwise those who are already seated will unintentionally forget to offer them a chair.
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 12:10:07 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
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It's slander. There are a host of presidents who defended slavery as an institution and you're calling Barack Obama the most racist one of all.
That's about as nutty as the people analogizing the holocaust with health care.
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 5:31:50 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1538
Joined: 1/27/2007
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The topic of this thread was "More and More Government" and that should be the real center of discussion.
The point the OP was making was that the House Health Care Hoax of 2009 is a monstrous bill having potentially horrendous long term implications for ALL Americans... regardless of current party or political stripe.
We tend to argue over specifics.. what it covers... what it doesn't. But, that is missing the forest for the trees.
What it puts into place will have little effect on people like myself who are 65 or older. The real people most harmed by this horrendouly fascist lurch by a House bent on total control of every aspect of life aren't even old enough to post on these forums.
Like those that stood on the Berlin Wall, they will dispise what we have done to them unless we can turn the tide toward liberty instead of Statism. Nothing is free. And, that includes health care by 'public option'. Those under 40 who cheer now, I doubt will be cheering 25 years from now, and they will rue the day they listened to the lies.
If you have been reading about the difficulties of the German reunification process you would know that people who live in slavery to the government long enough fear freedom more than tyranny. They lose the creativity and will to strive to better their lives... preferring, instead, the curse those that do. It is a long, hard road back from tyranny.
And, that reality completely escapes the armchair socialist wannabees that find Mao so appealing and the promise of 'free' so alluring. If the Senate goes along, the government will reach the Tipping Point of no return.
_____________________________
http://focusonliberty.blogspot.com
Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 5:40:08 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
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The problem with not talking about the specifics, as you so ably demonstrate TMeeks, is that you can just make up anything you want (Nazis! Communists! Death panels!) when you aren't tethered to reality at least a little.
The forest for the trees analogy doesn't work either. The bill hasn't been passed yet. The placement of the trees is still being debated and you're already claiming forest fire.
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 5:41:06 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1538
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Technically the democrats passed it. The legislation was initiated at the request of Eisenhower.
I thought LBJ was president in 1964...?
Were blacks lynched for wanting to be republicans after the Civil War?
More republicans voted for the Civil Rights act of 64 than democrats. Its fact.
If you see anything but racism in the democratic party then you are as blind as blind can be. Liberalism defines racism in its worst fashion.
If not, then why are so many people crying about racism today...with a black president? Its not about racial equality. Its about buying votes from the uneducated dependant fools who blindly follow the party that gives them money for being black.
That...is disgisting. Racist and proves the evil, satanic roots of liberalism.
Now we have the most racist president in office than any other in our nations history. His mentors include a sex and druig addict and a racist pastor. He spent most of his youth in a fogged out daze. He has no experience or ability and was elected by affirmitive action and white guilt.
So, go for more government. Bigger and bigger....but just remember one thing. All that power you are going to give to your messiah Obama...is gonna be in a republican's hands soon enough.
Think on that.
Possibly the reason Black people like democrats is because democrats are always trying to level the playing field. For those blacks who would like to come up the door is opened. Republicans feel that the playing field need not be leveled. They feel that blackpeople have been let into the game and should be grateful to be there.
The problem is that Republicans are not vigorous about pioneering assimilation of blacks into the economic system. We let you in, now do something! Democrats know that it is not that simple. I believe Republicans know it too.
The government had to ascort those blacks into school in South Carolina because without thos eprotections they did not stand a chance. On a similar plain, the government has to escort those blacks who want it up to the corporate table. Otherwise those who are already seated will unintentionally forget to offer them a chair.
If that isn't a racist slam against the abilities of Blacks then color me orange!
I have never seen any person that was so inferior that they could not rise above ALL adversity simply because of the color of their skin. Blacks do NOT need the paternalism of whites in order to achieve. And, I find your assertions to be highly offensive.
It is not that we feel that blacks should be 'grateful'. It is that we feel blacks are no less capable.
_____________________________
http://focusonliberty.blogspot.com
Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 5:48:01 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1538
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
The problem with not talking about the specifics, as you so ably demonstrate TMeeks, is that you can just make up anything you want (Nazis! Communists! Death panels!) when you aren't tethered to reality at least a little.
The forest for the trees analogy doesn't work either. The bill hasn't been passed yet. The placement of the trees is still being debated and you're already claiming forest fire.
The forest is important, huangshan, for it is in that forest that your government murdered thousands upon thousands of people. I'm tethered to reality alright. The reality of history.
And, so were our founding fathers. That is why they feared unlimited government and put into place a system of checks and balances that has been ignored and grossly distorted over the last hundred years.
What did Mao promise to the Chinese people? What did Mussolini promise to the Italian people. And, what did they REALLY deliver. Destruction and devastation. Pelosi will be as highly regarded as Mussolini before history is finished with her. It ain't over until it's over.
_____________________________
http://focusonliberty.blogspot.com
Is "Left" vs. "Right" really accurate?- Check out the Liberty Dial!
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 6:07:56 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
The problem with not talking about the specifics, as you so ably demonstrate TMeeks, is that you can just make up anything you want (Nazis! Communists! Death panels!) when you aren't tethered to reality at least a little.
The forest for the trees analogy doesn't work either. The bill hasn't been passed yet. The placement of the trees is still being debated and you're already claiming forest fire.
The forest is important, huangshan, for it is in that forest that your government murdered thousands upon thousands of people. I'm tethered to reality alright. The reality of history.
And now you make the "forest" mean something entirely different. This is what happens when you put everything in extreme moralistic terms. Everything is cast in terms of genocides and bodycounts. Specifics don't matter when the looming specter of communism/Nazism/fascism is nigh. How do you know it's nigh? Because you don't get caught up in the specifics.
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 10:40:49 PM
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mosess8
Posts: 66
Joined: 11/6/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Technically the democrats passed it. The legislation was initiated at the request of Eisenhower.
I thought LBJ was president in 1964...?
Were blacks lynched for wanting to be republicans after the Civil War?
More republicans voted for the Civil Rights act of 64 than democrats. Its fact.
If you see anything but racism in the democratic party then you are as blind as blind can be. Liberalism defines racism in its worst fashion.
If not, then why are so many people crying about racism today...with a black president? Its not about racial equality. Its about buying votes from the uneducated dependant fools who blindly follow the party that gives them money for being black.
That...is disgisting. Racist and proves the evil, satanic roots of liberalism.
Now we have the most racist president in office than any other in our nations history. His mentors include a sex and druig addict and a racist pastor. He spent most of his youth in a fogged out daze. He has no experience or ability and was elected by affirmitive action and white guilt.
So, go for more government. Bigger and bigger....but just remember one thing. All that power you are going to give to your messiah Obama...is gonna be in a republican's hands soon enough.
Think on that.
Possibly the reason Black people like democrats is because democrats are always trying to level the playing field. For those blacks who would like to come up the door is opened. Republicans feel that the playing field need not be leveled. They feel that blackpeople have been let into the game and should be grateful to be there.
The problem is that Republicans are not vigorous about pioneering assimilation of blacks into the economic system. We let you in, now do something! Democrats know that it is not that simple. I believe Republicans know it too.
The government had to ascort those blacks into school in South Carolina because without thos eprotections they did not stand a chance. On a similar plain, the government has to escort those blacks who want it up to the corporate table. Otherwise those who are already seated will unintentionally forget to offer them a chair.
If that isn't a racist slam against the abilities of Blacks then color me orange!
I have never seen any person that was so inferior that they could not rise above ALL adversity simply because of the color of their skin. Blacks do NOT need the paternalism of whites in order to achieve. And, I find your assertions to be highly offensive.
It is not that we feel that blacks should be 'grateful'. It is that we feel blacks are no less capable.
TMeeks, I can hear the sincerity in your statements here and I think you mean well. However, it is not a question of being more capable or as capable. I have been around long enough to also know that all that I have and many other whites have is not due to our capabilities. Over time our forefathers developed networks and a working social system which secured us and often looked the other way when we did what could have brought us down.
Black people did not have that advantage and still dont. But things are slowly changing and once fully assimilated I am sure they will perform as well as anybody else. Capability means little without opportunity.
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 10:59:41 PM
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sue244
Posts: 528
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
Status: offline
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quote:
Black people did not have that advantage and still dont. But things are slowly changing and once fully assimilated I am sure they will perform as well as anybody else. Capability means little without opportunity.
Have you noticed the color of the President?
_____________________________
My country owes me nothing. It gave me, as it gives every boy and girl,
a chance. It gave me schooling, independence of action, opportunity for
service and honor.
Equal rights for all, special privileges for none.
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 11:06:50 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 542
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
Possibly the reason Black people like democrats is because democrats are always trying to level the playing field.
Sadly that is so true! Democrats/Liberals do want to level the playin g filed. The only problem is that they want to drag everyone down to the lowest level instead of allowing people to climb up to the highest level; after all if you can climb out of the poverty then you won't need the Dems/Libs.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
For those blacks who would like to come up the door is opened. Republicans feel that the playing field need not be leveled.
Well I'm glad to see that you admit the door is open; now all folks have to do is walk through it
quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
They feel that blackpeople have been let into the game and should be grateful to be there.
The problem is that Republicans are not vigorous about pioneering assimilation of blacks into the economic system. We let you in, now do something! Democrats know that it is not that simple. I believe Republicans know it too.
What a bunch of expletive deleted to quote the Watergate tape transcripts.
_____________________________
I'd have ADD but I'm not that organized
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RE: More and more government - 11/9/2009 11:17:16 PM
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mosess8
Posts: 66
Joined: 11/6/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
Possibly the reason Black people like democrats is because democrats are always trying to level the playing field.
Sadly that is so true! Democrats/Liberals do want to level the playin g filed. The only problem is that they want to drag everyone down to the lowest level instead of allowing people to climb up to the highest level; after all if you can climb out of the poverty then you won't need the Dems/Libs.
quote:
I dont feel drug down when I am sharing with others. But just for the record I do not believe in people being permanently dependent upon me. What I do advocate is intelligent spendig to alleviate some of the basic worries and concerns of other human beings so that they can be fred up to take their shot.
ORIGINAL: mosess8
For those blacks who would like to come up the door is opened. Republicans feel that the playing field need not be leveled.
Well I'm glad to see that you admit the door is open; now all folks have to do is walk through it
Agreed
quote:
ORIGINAL: mosess8
They feel that blackpeople have been let into the game and should be grateful to be there.
The problem is that Republicans are not vigorous about pioneering assimilation of blacks into the economic system. We let you in, now do something! Democrats know that it is not that simple. I believe Republicans know it too.
What a bunch of expletive deleted to quote the Watergate tape transcripts.
I wish it was
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RE: More and more government - 11/10/2009 9:53:21 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2531
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Technically the democrats passed it. The legislation was initiated at the request of Eisenhower.
I thought LBJ was president in 1964...?
...
More republicans voted for the Civil Rights act of 64 than democrats. Its fact.
Not quite...
Lyndon Johnson was president in 1964, but the Civil Rights Commission led by Father Ted Hesburgh of Notre Dame (guess how I know this) gave rise to the 1964 civil rights act and was created by Eisenhower by the Civil Rights Act of 1957, which he requested in his state of the union speech in January 1956. So yes, a Republican started that ball rolling.
Eisenhower also integrated the armed forces, and appointed in sourthern districts only those judges that supported the civil rights cause. In this respect, he was a visionary.
And actually, more Democrats voted for it than Republicans. Since Democrats were in the majority, it took some wrangling by the Democratic majority party leadership in committee to circumvent the efforts of the southern Democrats to stifle the bill. By percentage terms, the Republicans gave it more support and put it over the top, but it was essentially the Dems that passed it, being the majority party at the time. The percentage stats are a bit skewed since the south was dominated by Dem's at that time. (No self respecting southerner would have espoused the party of Lincoln, after all.) The southern Dems were stoutly opposed to the legislation.
Breaking it down by party though isn't the real story. Essentially, northern Democrats partnered with northern Republicans to get it passed over the objection of the southern consituencies in each party.
Vote totals below (figures shown are for the final senate version voted on by both houses):
Senate:
D: 46-21 (20 of those voting against were sourthern Dem's)
R: 27-6 (5 of those voting against were northern Rep's)
(Also note that the D's were only 5 votes away)
House:
D:153-91 (the vast majority of those opposing being southern-87 in the original house version opposed)
R:136-35
The interesting point in all of that is that it broke down along geographical rather than political lines. 100 years after Lincoln, those old fault lines were still visible.
They remain visible today, albeit somewhat more discrete.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 11/10/2009 10:00:54 AM >
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: More and more government - 11/10/2009 10:32:40 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5740
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Thanks to TMeeks and GroupW for real discussion on this.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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