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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:36:57 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
So assume a guy with a nice muscly physique attends your church and he usually wears tight jeans and tight t-shirts to service.
We have a guy like that at our church. I also know he's so much more than a physical being to be gawked at ... and that he works out a lot, is a martial arts expert, and recently was in the world championships. I *see* him as so much more than just physical.
My mind just doesn't go there any longer. It did years ago. Until I did a Bible study on God's design for physical intimacy. It really convicted me, and I realized that I had no business even thinking about such things.
_____________________________
11/21 is the 11th Annual National Survivors of Suicide Day
Please remember to lift those in prayer who have lost a loved one to suicide
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:43:46 PM
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HisLamb26
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrtigger
Several women have said that they struggle with visual temptations/distractions also.... Ok, so that raises a question in my mind for the women....
So assume a guy with a nice muscly physique attends your church and he usually wears tight jeans and tight t-shirts to service. His muscles & physique are quite apparent through his tight clothing. And he typically sits up front where it is hard to not see him. So, what, if anything, should be done?
Should we just assume that he is unaware that his nice body & tight clothing is a distraction to the women?
Should the other guys talk to him about his distracting body/clothing? Should we suggest he wear looser jeans & shirts?
Should we say nothing and hope he someday starts dressing more modestly?
Or do something else?
mrtigger,
This very thing actually happened at a church I used to attend. This brother was "movie star" handsome, and had the build to go with it. He had a smile that would melt the north pole! He often wore snug clothing, and to make matters worse...he was single. 
Now here's the funny thing-I saw women look at him....(I enjoy people watchingao I often sit in the back...LOL), but not one of them mentioned him to me. Now one day he walked in and I was chatting with a sister who doesn't feel the need to be a plastic saint....and after he walked by she said "It's a miracle he doesn't set the carpet on fire......". She was the FIRST sister who admitted to me she found him distractingly handome, and I admired her for her honesty.
Did we ever go to the Pastor to complain?
RU Kidding me? It honestly never occurred to me to do that....I am there to worship God...it wasn't that hard to "Capture every thought"...thank God for the beauty of creation, and move on to the service.
I remebered something some radio preacher said once (I think it was charles stanley....)
"The First look-you can't help that. BUT THE SECOND LOOK........"
I accept my attraction to men as the way I'm designed, didn't beat myself up for noticing a handsome brother, and refocused my thoughts on the service.
_____________________________
Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:46:12 PM
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HisLamb26
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quote:
You are right that every believer must make an effort not to sin. Having said that, I stand by my claim that some Christian women are not understanding to the struggles of men and this is a perfect example, and if you're sick of being blamed for "OUR LUST PROBLEMS" - know that we Christian men who have a conscience do what we can not to fall to lust. And part of that effort is not blaming you.
You continue to misunderstand me
Rich-My "WE are sick of being blamed for your lust problems" was not a personal "your", but a collective one. I was just trying to get you to understand why women get so fed up with this.
_____________________________
Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:53:11 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2
Why are you wearing tight fitting sweaters RichLP? Are you trying to make your sisters in Christ stumble?
No.
The one sweater I like the most is 2 years old. It was looser back then. It is a large or extra-large.
It's "tighter" now because my body changed since then.
So if I understand you correctly: you wear the sweater because you like it without a care in the world if said sweater causes your sisters to stumble.
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:53:30 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisLamb26
Rich-My "WE are sick of being blamed for your lust problems" was not a personal "your", but a collective one. I was just trying to get you to understand why women get so fed up with this.
Understood.
I am willing to concede some men in the church take the easy way out and blame women; they do not necessarily wish to face discipline in their lives.
I cannot judge any brother, but as a man in Christ, I have seen lust and lust-related sins are not invincible. I myself overcame them this year, again I rejoice in sharing, because of the grace of God and the renewed spiritual sensitivity against sin that God gave to me in 2009 as part of a spiritual revival I am still enjoying. So if men don't fight it enough and then blame women - that's wrong.
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:54:34 PM
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GregandJenny
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Rich:
if we keep blaming on the women in the church, then the answer is to
have them covered from head to foot. the problem with that is this: because of the condition of our heart it really doesn't matter how much clothes a woman wears, because if he is going to lust he is going to lust. I will be honest, I am and never have been attracted to Immodest women, because I was raised that it is trashy and I find it repulsive. It doesn't entice me. But let me tell you what If a woman who is reserved and covered up comes in then, I have to put my heart in check. I have lots of guy friends that are like this. So we can place all the blame on the women, but if our hearts aren't right they can do everything according to the letter of the law and we will still stumble.
rich I should also clarify something, when I am talking about men not talking about it, I am specifically talking about with other men. there is power in confession and repentance.
On Temptation the bible says this in 1 Cor 10
quote:
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it
It's with God's help that we overcome this temptation. I always go right back to the Beattitutes in Matthew, when I am faced with any temptation, Blessed are those who HUNGER AND THIRST for righteousness, for they WILL be filled.
Again, I really don't believe as men we can put this on the women, we need to rise up and be accountable.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 3:55:34 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2
So if I understand you correctly: you wear the sweater because you like it without a care in the world if said sweater causes your sisters to stumble.
I wear it because it's comfortable, because it looks nice, because it's warm, and because I'm picky about buying other sweaters!
And also because I don't look as muscular in it as the world championship martial arts competitor and because I'm nowhere near as handsome as the "I can't believe he didn't burn the carpet" Mr. Charming who were mentioned here.
And, as I said, there's some fat there and it shows too.
Any more questions?
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:00:05 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2
So if I understand you correctly: you wear the sweater because you like it without a care in the world if said sweater causes your sisters to stumble.
I wear it because it's comfortable, because it looks nice, because it's warm, and because I'm picky about buying other sweaters!
And also because I don't look as muscular in it as the world championship martial arts competitor and because I'm nowhere near as handsome as the "I can't believe he didn't burn the carpet" Mr. Charming who were mentioned here.
And, as I said, there's some fat there and it shows too.
Any more questions?
Yeah ... can we say double standard?
Because if I wear MY favorite sweater (that's a little too tight and some fat shows) because it looks nice, it's warm and I'm picky about buying other sweaters I'm causing you to stumble.
Can't we just agree that I need to keep my eyes, mind and heart out of the gutter regardless of what you (general you) have on and vice versa?
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:03:13 PM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GregandJenny
Rich:
if we keep blaming on the women in the church, then the answer is to
have them covered from head to foot. the problem with that is this: because of the condition of our heart it really doesn't matter how much clothes a woman wears, because if he is going to lust he is going to lust. I will be honest, I am and never have been attracted to Immodest women, because I was raised that it is trashy and I find it repulsive. It doesn't entice me. But let me tell you what If a woman who is reserved and covered up comes in then, I have to put my heart in check. I have lots of guy friends that are like this. So we can place all the blame on the women, but if our hearts aren't right they can do everything according to the letter of the law and we will still stumble.
rich I should also clarify something, when I am talking about men not talking about it, I am specifically talking about with other men. there is power in confession and repentance.
On Temptation the bible says this in 1 Cor 10
quote:
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it
It's with God's help that we overcome this temptation. I always go right back to the Beattitutes in Matthew, when I am faced with any temptation, Blessed are those who HUNGER AND THIRST for righteousness, for they WILL be filled.
Again, I really don't believe as men we can put this on the women, we need to rise up and be accountable.
G
GregandJenny,
I was referring more to women in the world. When I mentioned women in the church I alluded more to how the ones I've come across are not understanding of men.
And thanks for referring to the Beatitudes. My pastor is doing a sermon series on them. I've incorporated them into my prayers. "Lord, grant me a spirit which is desperately hungry and thirsty for your holiness. Make me hungry for the Word. Make me want to come to church on Sunday with a burning heart which yearns to be in Your presence and to worship You."
And I do pray about the women, because there are some whose beauty has caught my attention:
"Help me to love these sisters in Christ in church w/ a pure heart. Most are younger than me; some, almost 10 years younger; others, even younger. And many are attractive. I find them attractive. But I dare not defraud them. They are my younger sisters in Christ. I'm under Your orders to love them with a pure heart, with an unselfish spirit, and to honor and to be a godly brother. Lead me not to fall but to glorify You in all I do."
And as I just wrote, yes, there are many times MEN need to stand up and fight. But even those of us brothers who have overcome will not underestimate the dangers innate in sexual temptation or in sexual sin.
< Message edited by RichLP -- 11/5/2009 4:11:20 PM >
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:09:13 PM
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WalkingwithHim2
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Thanks RichLP ....
I think WE ALL need to keep our eyes, minds and hearts out of the gutter. Lust is not only a "male" problem .... maybe the women that you know don't have or don't admit they have issues but they are very real among many that I know.
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:12:51 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1142
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WalkingwithHim2
Thanks RichLP ....
I think WE ALL need to keep our eyes, minds and hearts out of the gutter. Lust is not only a "male" problem .... maybe the women that you know don't have or don't admit they have issues but they are very real among many that I know.
I'll keep a sweatshirt in my trunk so that I can change into it if the brothers and I are having a post-worship service meal and some sisters join us. Deal?
I just never thought women faced that to the extent men did. And (don't laugh... ah whatever, laugh) I never imagined that even now with an improved physique thanks to nearly 4 years of weightlifting, that a woman would really lust after me. (Yes, laugh if you want, but I'm dead serious)
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:17:35 PM
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BelleWeather
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Joined: 7/29/2009
From: New York City
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In Russia, and other parts of Europe, the human body is not always seen as fundamentally wicked, in need of constant correction. What a person does, how they live their life, how they treat others, is seen as a better gauge of corruption.
I am not disturbed by nudity. I am disturbed by people using their bodies like billboards advertising every base instinct with no competence. It's uncouth.
Some people do not know any better.
Some people are tacky.
Some people need a kind word.
A full-length mirror should be mandatory in every home.
I grew up on my Granny's farm. We used a sauna, jumping naked into a hole cut in the ice. Swam naked in the river.
I have spent my dance training life in locker rooms, dressing rooms, at costume fittings naked or nearly naked, with other naked or nearly naked people.
I wear practice clothes for movement, comfort, protection, and dignity. I need to see what my body is doing, as I dance, so that I perfect and sculpt my motions for dance judges and audiences. It is not vanity, it is necessity.
I am not ashamed of my body. I am not afraid of my body. It is the best thing I have ever had.
I think the human body is a beautiful, extraordinary thing.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
On a serious note, I am curious about what you think of, for lack of a better word, situational modesty. The situations that come to mind are, for example, working out. I run. When I run I wear tight fitting Lycra knee pants and a tank top and sports bra. The reason is purely for comfort. Baggier clothing and simply more clothing actually causes some chafing and I get overheated. Also, swimming is another. I swim for exercise. It is a athletic suit, not really high cut or low cut. But it does show a lot of skin comparatively. When I work out I do not wear makeup, I wrap my head in a bandanna (did I mention I sweat so much I am stinky? Seriously, close friends keep their distance after a workout.), and I cannot believe that anyone would think attracting men was anywhere on my mind. Everyone at my gym knows I am a happily married woman that will be friendly but not open to flirting or sexual banter. I am very upfront with my commitment to God and my husband. That pretty much stops a repeat attempt.
I believe that wearing the proper clothing for the activity is essential. It supports your body, protects your skin, keeps you warm and comfortable, wicks away moisture, assists in full motion, reduces injury and physical stress.
I only wear warm-up clothes to stay warm, not for barre work or practice. I wear standard full body leotards, ballet pink or nude tights, dance skirt, sweater, ankle and knee wraps, legwarmers, Latin 3" heel practice shoe. Nothing fancy, and not for seduction. I do not wear my practice clothes as street clothes, or visa versa.
The people that work at my studio, my students, and clients know I am a professional. I've only had one student who thought otherwise: He ended up flat on his back, with a bloody nose. His money was not refunded.
The players of the world only win by playing the numbers: one woman at a time. "No thank you" works for me.
What are the two most dangerous words in America? Swim suit <You know it is>
What I have observed in this forum is nothing short of the "Third Rail" when it comes to the topic of swim suits.
Suggestions:
Try on several to locate the proper size and style for your body type, in front of a full-length mirror.
Once you have made a choice, sit down, bend over, and take a good look. Others will.
Cut-off jeans are not a swim suit---You know who you are. Stop it.
I've had the same swim suit for 3 years. I bought it in Jamaica at a beach shop--One piece tank, red, Norma Kamali. Conservative.
quote:
In my daily life, I dress modestly. I wear jeans, sweaters, shirts, t-shirts. I like looking stylish or more to the point, well groomed but I am not interested in showing off my goods. Well, other than my husband but that is a different story. I am happy that I am not voluptuously built so I would have to try to show off my assets.
I'm the same way, minus the husband--I'm workin' on it. I'm skinny, short-bodied, long-legged--typical dancer's physique.
Today's ensemble:
Ponytail stuffed in a Yankee's cap
Sunglasses
Hawaiian Tropic Lip Balm
Grey turtleneck
Skinny charcoal jeans stuffed into 10-eyelet Doc Martin's
Grey paisley scarf
Brown fingerless gloves
Vintage Eisenhower jacket
Leather plumber's bag
quote:
I think part of "modestly is subjective" mentality goes back to the above. In my mind, I am a chaste, modest woman. My husband is in complete agreement with me on this. I know when someone is hitting on me and I am not afraid to say 'Thanks but no thanks" or "Get lost" depending on the manner it was delivered. However, I know there are people out there that would say I am not modest because I choose to not be covered from let's say elbow to knees in loose, flowing clothing.
So, what do you say?
You are singing to the choir, SurpassingPeace.
People will have inappropriate thoughts about the most modest women in the room. Is nothing to done but to defend her from perpetual idiocy?
It is not the woman's fault. It is not the woman's sin. It is not the woman's responsibility.
No woman is doing anything wrong by being a woman.
I am sick of having to defend my gender to Christians.
God made women. If you don't like it, complain to God.
_____________________________
We think we fathom the depths
when we are just skimming the surface with our finger.
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:27:05 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 659
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
And as I just wrote, yes, there are many times MEN need to stand up and fight. But even those of us brothers who have overcome will not underestimate the dangers innate in sexual temptation or in sexual sin.
I agree were are gonna struggle. the dangers and the struggle is there, but the root cause is not what people wear or don't wear or see or don't see, it's about the heart. I think we keep fighting this battle by doing things and trying to figure out how and we really should bathe ourselves as scripture. We are weak not because we are tempted and we fall not because someone temps us (and I fall many times) we fall because we have really gotten away from our source of life.
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:33:04 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
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Joined: 12/30/2007
From: Inside my head
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quote:
God made women. If you don't like it, complain to God.
Belle, I like this so much I want to steal it and use it for my sig line. May I?
_____________________________
Everything I say is fully substantiated by my own opinion.
What have we to fear?
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:35:00 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8047
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
God made women. If you don't like it, complain to God.
Belle, I like this so much I want to steal it and use it for my sig line. May I?
Ditto!!!! Mega kudos, girlfriend. 
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:43:57 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 659
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
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I like that too Belle! In fact I am gonna have to use it. I didn't catch it b4 ( i must be chatting to much)!
< Message edited by GregandJenny -- 11/5/2009 5:15:08 PM >
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:46:03 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1142
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BelleWeather
God made women. If you don't like it, complain to God.
I've NEVER complained. Nor will I ever.
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 4:49:16 PM
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BelleWeather
Posts: 708
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: New York City
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
God made women. If you don't like it, complain to God.
Belle, I like this so much I want to steal it and use it for my sig line. May I?
It's all yours. ; )
_____________________________
We think we fathom the depths
when we are just skimming the surface with our finger.
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RE: Christian Women In or Out of touch? - 11/5/2009 5:26:56 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Joined: 11/21/2007
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Belle, thank you for your response. I have really appreciated your posts.
quote:
"It's a miracle he doesn't set the carpet on fire......". She was the FIRST sister who admitted to me she found him distractingly handome, and I admired her for her honesty.
This caught me off guard. I laughed so hard my son stopped nursing and laughed with me.
_____________________________
Karen
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Christian Women in or our of touch - 11/5/2009 5:28:07 PM
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HisLamb26
Posts: 387
Joined: 4/17/2005
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Belle,
I have really enjoyed your posts on this topic.
THIS truly takes the cake as one of the best in thread for 2009. (Give the gal a cupie doll!!!)
quote:
People will have inappropriate thoughts about the most modest women in the room. Is nothing to done but to defend her from perpetual idiocy?
It is not the woman's fault. It is not the woman's sin. It is not the woman's responsibility.
No woman is doing anything wrong by being a woman.
I am sick of having to defend my gender to Christians.
God made women. If you don't like it, complain to God.
^ X2
_____________________________
Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians. ~Pat Robertson
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RE: Christian Women in or our of touch - 11/5/2009 5:32:28 PM
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SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
Joined: 11/21/2007
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Alright, I put my son down so I can type with all my fingers. Belle, I have to agree with everyone that your last bit was a treasure. If you aren't careful, you are going to have a bunch of posters with your words in their sig line.
(And all of this from a woman in a card board box.)
_____________________________
Karen
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RE: Christian Women in or our of touch - 11/5/2009 6:32:50 PM
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BelleWeather
Posts: 708
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: New York City
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I took a header off my soap box.....good thing, too.
NO MORE CARDBOARD BOXES! Women deserve better than that. <Enough>
Bless you for your kind words.
As I make my way in the world, the Word is my mapbook. I take responsibility for my journey. I expect no less from my fellow Christians.
There has to be something better than humiliation, guilt and recriminations when we seek to make the path clear for others.
Isn't that what being a Christian is about?
_____________________________
We think we fathom the depths
when we are just skimming the surface with our finger.
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