|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/5/2009 4:58:40 PM
|
|
|
RichLP
Posts: 1142
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
|
Sick.
I get angry reading this not just because of how horrible that woman's story is or because of how reprehensible abusing one's wife is - but because PASTORS aren't doing enough to help them. Would that pastor have done the same if the woman who came to him for help had been his sister?
Some pastors (I'm going to go off here, so prepare yourself), while true men of God, can also be CLUELESS. By this I mean that while they may be godly servants of God, healthy husbands and fathers, and examples of godliness, they may not necessarily be aware of how these things (family abuse/spousal issues) work. Being a pastor, holding a degree in theology, etc. do not equip a man (or a woman) to provide counseling for marital or spousal abuse/violence.
And the very fact that some Christian men who abuse their wives use Scripture to defend their actions is one of the very criticisms militant atheists use to attack our faith. I've read and perused a number of atheist websites and one common theme they use is that Christianity puts women down and it teaches abuse is OK. Let's hope no atheist reads the article Fritz_Admin put up.
Urgh! I'm incensed. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/6/2009 4:23:12 PM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 662
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
What does everyone think of this article?
The pastor feels that unless you are true danger physical, or sexually due to disease - seek church from the church or learn the Sarah principal since Jesus never promised life wouldn't hurt. Just learn to be more like Christ during your suffering if the church can't get him to stop.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/6/2009 10:46:07 PM
|
|
|
bolt.
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
|
I'd direct the pastor to read 1 Cor 5, and Matthew 18 to see how individuals and Churches are supposed to respond to those individuals who choose to continue in sin against a believer. I would extend that to include separation of spouses for protection of children, if the children are being sinned against. How can a spouse obey those commands if they go on living in the same home as someone they are told not to associate with, not even to eat with?
There is a difference and a comparison called for between the command to go on living with someone who does not believe, and the idea of doing so even if they are abusive (sinning against you).
The command to rebuke and then shun sinners as necessary is perfectly clear, in multiple places, and never specific to a single situation. It is meant to be universal. The command regarding marriage contracts is connected with cultural norms, laws and propriety. Therefore the first has primacy, in our case, because the cultural norms, laws and proprieties have changed significantly -- particularly in the ways marriage contracts are (or are not) written, and family authority structures are (or are not) enshrined in law.
To make the statement the other way (that the culturally situational command has primacy over the universal command) is evidence of very poor understanding of revelation and even poorer interpretation skills.
In those days the command to obey the law of the land had primacy over the command to rebuke and shun sinners as necessary. That remains true (and it might be important to remember how highly that law-abiding principle is placed, if persecution and gov't domination is coming as quickly as some in 'current events' seem to think.) What has changed is that separation due to abuse is no longer illegal, therefore the application of that law-abiding principle no longer bears on the marital separation question.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/7/2009 12:51:47 PM
|
|
|
car2ner
Posts: 2537
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
|
There may be times when someone thinks they are in greater difficulty than they really are, but if a family is truly disfunctional, then the children are learning way too many bad lessons about family dynamics and conflict resolution.
It is hard sometime to find where to draw the line. I did the suffering like Sarah thing but the situation only escalated; it did not improve.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/8/2009 10:59:54 AM
|
|
|
BelleWeather
Posts: 708
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: New York City
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
What does everyone think of this article?
The pastor feels that unless you are true danger physical, or sexually due to disease - seek church from the church or learn the Sarah principal since Jesus never promised life wouldn't hurt. Just learn to be more like Christ during your suffering if the church can't get him to stop.
I'll say it again:
quote:
The escalating level of misogyny supported or tolerated in religious circles is disgusting.
This summer John Piper stated exactly the same thing. I guess the message has trickled down to other lesser minds of the Baptist Convention.
I cannot understand how Baptists lawyers read or hear this from the church leaders and pastors, and do not attach legal disclaimers.
The church is to aid and abet criminal behavior....REALLY?
I was taught that this is canon for husbands and wives to treat each other:
quote:
Ephesians 5:25-33
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blamless.
28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church--
30for we are members of his body.
31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."
32This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church.
33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Abusing your wife, whether with your fists or your words, is not how Christ loved the church.
Dear God, protect those women.
_____________________________
We think we fathom the depths
when we are just skimming the surface with our finger.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/8/2009 11:13:46 AM
|
|
|
Sideways
Posts: 3351
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
What I think is an issue here, is that many churches, consider the female's duty to submit (although the interpretation of submit varies widely) to be more important then the man's duty to love his wife. Almost anyone will tell you that it's wrong for a man to hit his wife, but many will tell you that if his wife was more submissive, more godly, then the situation would improve.
I believe in males having a strong role in the leadership of a church, but I've seen to many churches where women are relegated to the sidelines, having no vote, no say at all, and when that happens, the unlimited power of males will almost certainly corrupt them, so that much of the blame for society and problems within a family gets placed on "feminism" and women working outside the home and not being submissive enough.
These types of men love having all the power but with limited responsibility.
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/9/2009 11:37:30 AM
|
|
|
greendesign
Posts: 5
Joined: 7/9/2009
Status: offline
|
Why would I let someone hurt me? That'll lose my self-esteem and the respect I have for myself. People do not have the privilege to physically/verbally abuse me, so I'll never let them do that.
_____________________________
Customize Your Christian Banners With Your Own Message
http://www.greendesignerprints.com/christian_banners.php
Elegantly designed Christian Art developed by best in class graphic designers. You can customize each template with your message.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/9/2009 2:01:57 PM
|
|
|
car2ner
Posts: 2537
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
|
I hope not but it is deceptively easy to make excuses for bad behavior if you really care for someone. There is always the hope that the violence was just a blip, that it won't happen again. These people become really good at making other people feel atleast partly responsible for their bad behavior. As time goes on it becomes a pattern and your lives become more and more entwined and it becomes harder to leave.
For single folks, never make excuses for that first red flag!
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/9/2009 3:02:57 PM
|
|
|
GraceyGirl
Posts: 347
Joined: 6/4/2006
Status: offline
|
I haven't read all of the replies here yet, but wanted to post before I do.
Celebrating 15 years of marriage this year, I can happily say that I am crazy in love with DH. It wasn't always that way however, and there was a period in our marriage where he was very nearly physically abusive (throwing things at me, though his aim is really bad) and actually encountered abuse on half a dozen occasions. I sought counsel from my CREDO Commander (a navy chaplain) who encouraged me to be more submissive, and find ways to "please" him to keep him happy. My pastor gave me similar advice, and had his wife go out to lunch with me a few times.
The breaking point came the night I slipped on something on the floor, and he laughed at me and then realized I had the baby in my arms, at which point he yelled and RAGED toward me. I put DS on the couch and put my hands up against him, and he shoved me into a wall for "touching him" in anger. (I wasn't angry, simply frightened.) I'd had enough. I picked up the phone and call the PM's office. Four USMC military policemen showed up and when he refused to leave, they reminded him that I as a military wife was the one entitled to housing. . .NOT him. He was leaving - either in his car or theirs. He left. The JA's office ordered him to anger management counseling, and canceled his CAX. He was incredibly angry but was understanding how serious I was. The BEST adjustment he got for his behavior however, was from his Master Sgt, who upon hearing of the situation took him out one night for dinner and explained to him very vividly how his family dealt with men who hit or otherwise abused women, or made them live in fear. Paul told me years later that the MSgt told him that if he got word I'd had to call the MP's *one more time* that hazing would not begin to cover the experience Paul would receive from him and some of the older, more experienced sergeants. He beleived them. He never raised his hand to me in anger again.
Some would say that violence begats violence. For the most part, I agree with this. But I think that men who batter are simply bullies, and when confronted by someone who is able to stand against them, most of them will back down. I think that men today are woefully in lack of strong men to provide guidance and counsel, as well as correction when its needed.
I haven't seen the Master Sergeant since our time at the base. But I'll be eternally thankfuly for him taking my husband to the "woodpile" for a chat. That crusty old Marine changed our marriage more than the chaplains and our pastor.
_____________________________
God called. He'd like His church back.
~John Wimber~
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/9/2009 3:31:42 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 5589
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
What does everyone think of this article?
The pastor feels that unless you are true danger physical, or sexually due to disease - seek church from the church or learn the Sarah principal since Jesus never promised life wouldn't hurt. Just learn to be more like Christ during your suffering if the church can't get him to stop.
I read it...and did not get the same message at all.
Considering he remarked that "In this day of easy divorce....etc. etc." I think he put his thoughts in context and he made several good points.
He wasn't talking about violence and being put in harm's way.
< Message edited by doinkdom -- 11/9/2009 3:37:52 PM >
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/9/2009 4:13:38 PM
|
|
|
bolt.
Posts: 1756
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
|
quote:
so he grabbed both arms and kinda pushed me backwards saying he's fine. He does stuff like this now and again, but never anything over the top, always questionable enough to make me wonder whether it is even considered abuse, or just 'close' to abuse.
You are right to wonder about this... because there isn't a firm definition that's going to tell you exactly how hard of a grab is abuse. In all cases, abuse is about the intent.
Say my husband is walking away, and I reach out and grab him by the arm to say, "Wait. You forgot your keys." Sometimes, like that, a grab or push is a kind of communication, not domination. Some couples play wrestle and tickle one another with considerable forcefulness.
The questions you need to ask yourself are (1) about intent. "If I had really wanted to break away and visit the child anyways, how far would he have gone to prevent that?" and "Do I think he does it to restrain me, or frighten me, or for some other reason" and then (2) about impact: "Do I fear my husband when he does that?" and "Are there things I wouldn't dare to do because of knowing how he would react?"
Because the truth is, no matter what he does, if it frightens you and takes away your choices, and if he does it for that reason... that's abuse... even if nobody ever gets hit.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/9/2009 4:17:15 PM
|
|
|
SurpassingPeace
Posts: 804
Joined: 11/21/2007
Status: offline
|
Armywifey, all I can say is that if my husband restrained me in such a manner, we would have a serious issue. No man will lay a hand on that is not in love or getting my attention in the manner Bolt described.
_____________________________
Karen
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/10/2009 11:58:54 AM
|
|
|
BelleWeather
Posts: 708
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: New York City
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bolt.
quote:
so he grabbed both arms and kinda pushed me backwards saying he's fine. He does stuff like this now and again, but never anything over the top, always questionable enough to make me wonder whether it is even considered abuse, or just 'close' to abuse.
You are right to wonder about this... because there isn't a firm definition that's going to tell you exactly how hard of a grab is abuse. In all cases, abuse is about the intent.
Say my husband is walking away, and I reach out and grab him by the arm to say, "Wait. You forgot your keys." Sometimes, like that, a grab or push is a kind of communication, not domination. Some couples play wrestle and tickle one another with considerable forcefulness.
The questions you need to ask yourself are (1) about intent. "If I had really wanted to break away and visit the child anyways, how far would he have gone to prevent that?" and "Do I think he does it to restrain me, or frighten me, or for some other reason" and then (2) about impact: "Do I fear my husband when he does that?" and "Are there things I wouldn't dare to do because of knowing how he would react?"
Because the truth is, no matter what he does, if it frightens you and takes away your choices, and if he does it for that reason... that's abuse... even if nobody ever gets hit.
Thank you, Bolt.
_____________________________
We think we fathom the depths
when we are just skimming the surface with our finger.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Violence in the Home - 11/10/2009 2:19:46 PM
|
|
|
car2ner
Posts: 2537
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
Status: offline
|
quote:
Some would say that violence begats violence. For the most part, I agree with this. But I think that men who batter are simply bullies, and when confronted by someone who is able to stand against them, most of them will back down. I think that men today are woefully in lack of strong men to provide guidance and counsel, as well as correction when its needed.
In some respects this is absolutely true. This is why they turn their anger onto their family but co-workers never see it. A person that is short tempered with others will take more than just a good strong mentor.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
