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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 11:22:32 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5585
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From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
For tithing it would seem to contradict "first fruits."
However, for an offering (above, beyond tithing) then maybe?  I dunno, I'd have to really meditate on that.
If you are paid by direct deposit, then wouldn't a debit card be as close to first as possible?
yep...I agree about the debit card - I was thinking more about interest being paid on top of the credit charge when it's done through most credit cards.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SurpassingPeace
quote:
For tithing it would seem to contradict "first fruits."
However, for an offering (above, beyond tithing) then maybe? I dunno, I'd have to really meditate on that.
If you think of that way then direct deposit would be more accurately first fruits. I may write my check out for tithes first but if payday is on a Monday then there are ,in reality, many things paid before I tithe on the following Sunday. I think this could get very legalistic quickly.
Karen
I was referring to NOT going into further debt to pay a tithe (which IS legalistic imo) considering the interest on some credit cards.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 12:45:38 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I meant being legalistic about what constitutes first fruits.
Look, if people are going to be poor money managers they will find a way. Just because they give their tithe in cash but then charges their groceries, it is really the same thing in the end.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 12:50:24 PM
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Ps103
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If you don't carry a balance, it doesn't really matter *what* the interest rate is, though, does it?
One thing I have been curious about but never seen an answer to, and this thread seems close to the topic:
What happens if someone writes a check to a church and it bounces? How is that handled? I would imagine that the church's bank would charge a returned check fee, so does the church charge a fee to the person who wrote the check to cover that?
It has to have happened, right? Anyone know how it gets handled?
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 12:53:30 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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I suppose it must happen, but I have never heard of it happening.
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"You can" makes no difference. "You will" changes the world.
~BillyBob Jones in Grey soon to be authored by Caleb (12) for NaNoWriMo
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 12:57:32 PM
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ta_mosquito
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I've never heard of a church being charged a returned check fee. It'd be the bouncer's bank charging the overdraft fee directly to them, as far as I know. The church (or business), AFAIK, receives a notice that a check has bounced, for their records to be adjusted.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 12:59:46 PM
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mmartiandt
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
If you don't carry a balance, it doesn't really matter *what* the interest rate is, though, does it?
One thing I have been curious about but never seen an answer to, and this thread seems close to the topic:
What happens if someone writes a check to a church and it bounces? How is that handled? I would imagine that the church's bank would charge a returned check fee, so does the church charge a fee to the person who wrote the check to cover that?
It has to have happened, right? Anyone know how it gets handled?
When my mom was treasurer at my old church, she had to deal with this on occasion. How they handled it was she called the pastor to inform him of what had happened, and he then called the person and informed them that the check had bounced. Normally it was someone who did it accidentally one time, and so the church didn't charge them a fee. There was one person who did it habitually though, and I think after several times they just asked her to not give checks because of the cost, but to stick to cash instead. She was the exception rather than the rule though, as most people that bounced a check apologized profusely and didn't have it happen again.
_____________________________
Lee Francis Peterson
Sheltered from the storms of life, Free from pain and suffering,
Wrapped in the arms of Jesus, Forever in our hearts
January 31, 2009
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 1:00:07 PM
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doinkdom
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I think we all know what our own personal first fruits are based on conviction and our study of scripture.
I'm not responsible for someone else poorly handling their money, but I wouldn't want the church to give any indication of furthering their debt (interest, etc. that gets charged to their cc.) I do get the "paypal" or debit card online" form of giving to make it easier to do so.
I'm sure there are legitimate reasons for putting tithe on a credit card. I just can't see them. Tithing is worship and if I incur more debt or look for a way to serve myself with points, etc. then am I truly worshipping with my tithe?
Just more questions I guess.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 1:02:57 PM
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Ps103
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mmartiandt
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
If you don't carry a balance, it doesn't really matter *what* the interest rate is, though, does it?
One thing I have been curious about but never seen an answer to, and this thread seems close to the topic:
What happens if someone writes a check to a church and it bounces? How is that handled? I would imagine that the church's bank would charge a returned check fee, so does the church charge a fee to the person who wrote the check to cover that?
It has to have happened, right? Anyone know how it gets handled?
When my mom was treasurer at my old church, she had to deal with this on occasion. How they handled it was she called the pastor to inform him of what had happened, and he then called the person and informed them that the check had bounced. Normally it was someone who did it accidentally one time, and so the church didn't charge them a fee. There was one person who did it habitually though, and I think after several times they just asked her to not give checks because of the cost, but to stick to cash instead. She was the exception rather than the rule though, as most people that bounced a check apologized profusely and didn't have it happen again.
Thanks, Denise! I have always been curious about that.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 2:59:40 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
If you don't carry a balance, it doesn't really matter *what* the interest rate is, though, does it?
Credit card companies are changing the rules to generate revenue despite the downturn in the economy. Many charge interest on the monthly average balance, so that even if you pay off the balance every month, you still have to pay some interest.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 3:35:29 PM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
If you don't carry a balance, it doesn't really matter *what* the interest rate is, though, does it?
Credit card companies are changing the rules to generate revenue despite the downturn in the economy. Many charge interest on the monthly average balance, so that even if you pay off the balance every month, you still have to pay some interest.
In the entire time we've been married (6.5 years), we've ALWAYS paid our credit card balance in full every month and we've NEVER paid any interest.
I'm just tickled pink for ya, Harvie, really I am, but I have. This year, as a matter of fact. That is how I know what I was talking about. Didn't say all, said "many". And I've been married almost 38 years, FWIW.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/29/2009 6:36:32 PM
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davelinde
Posts: 468
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From: New Jersey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
... charge interest on the monthly average balance, so that even if you pay off the balance every month, you still have to pay some interest.
I'd drop that card in a heartbeat... neither of our cards charge us when we pay off each month.
I support several ministries via on-line credit card donations and one is actually set up as an monthly automatic charge. I find this very convenient. Our church doesn't provide this option, so we write them checks each month - these are pretty much the only checks we still write. Everything else is done as a charge transaction or other on-line payment.
All that said... unless the church is careful this seems a bad idea. I would not encourage anyone to go into debt (real debt, not a credit card grace period float) to support a church.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/30/2009 10:36:53 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davelinde
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
... charge interest on the monthly average balance, so that even if you pay off the balance every month, you still have to pay some interest.
I'd drop that card in a heartbeat... neither of our cards charge us when we pay off each month.
Mine didn't when I got it quite a few years ago. In 2006, I paid off all CC debt and eliminated all but that card, since it had the best rates and was through my local bank. But this year I noticed the change in policy and I have read that card companies are getting slicker in generating revenue.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/30/2009 3:58:22 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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Eutychus, my mother has had three cards cancelled because she had the audacity to pay her bills in full each month. How dare she! And two of them didn't bother to notify her, she just got to experience the fun of having her card rejected at the store.
Karen
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/30/2009 4:08:52 PM
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jhuperetes
Posts: 471
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I despise credit cards, but I have to have at least one.
Some businesses, like some hotels and rental car agencies will not take debit cards.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/31/2009 3:09:42 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 799
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
Many people use credit cards responsibly and would find it very convenient to have an automatic withdrawal of their offerings from their credit cards. And it may get more people to give.
That said, I don't like this for a few reasons:
(1) It (if it's an automatic withdrawal) makes giving impersonal. If you write a check or put cash in the plate, it's more intentional than seeing it on your statement every month.
Our church offers the OPTION of 'online giving'....but, credit cards are NOT an option. The only method to set up "on line giving" is through "e-Checks"....basically a method of setting up automatic withdrawals from a bank account (savings, checking, etc..etc..)
now, some may prefer the "old fashioned" way....and say this is 'impersonal' or whatever. But, from a budgeting perspective, it makes all the sense in the world.
For instance, I don't know from one week to the next if I am going to be in church on Sunday morning. Same goes for alot of folks. Will the guy who is a doc be 'on call', and at the hospital? Will I be out of town on business? Will I, or one of the kids, be sick? Am I going on vacation for a few weeks? Will we just plain 'ol over-sleep? Let's say I miss 2-3 sundays in a row (and that DOES happen!).....that's alot of "catching up" to do on tithing the next time I make it to church! With "auto-debiting" my checking account....I know that my tithe is there...and, the "budget-monster" isn't going to take it.
We've been doing it this method for over 2 years now...and we've never given to the church as consistently, and faithfully.....EVER....
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/31/2009 9:55:31 AM
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ckgirl
Posts: 3
Joined: 10/27/2009
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quote:
Our church offers the OPTION of 'online giving'....but, credit cards are NOT an option. The only method to set up "on line giving" is through "e-Checks"....basically a method of setting up automatic withdrawals from a bank account (savings, checking, etc..etc..)
now, some may prefer the "old fashioned" way....and say this is 'impersonal' or whatever. But, from a budgeting perspective, it makes all the sense in the world.
I have no problem with this and am praying our church finds a way to do it. I do understand the convienience factor ... we are faithful tithers, but sometimes we leave the tithe envelope at home or end up missing church because of illness. It would be nice to know that our tithe was still being given despite these things.
I just don't want our church to allow members to place their tithe on a credit card, adding it to the pile of debt many of them have already accumulated. Not to mention the fact that giving is supposed to come from what God has already given us - it should not be from money we have borrowed from someone else.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 10/31/2009 2:45:53 PM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
Not to mention the fact that giving is supposed to come from what God has already given us - it should not be from money we have borrowed from someone else.
At least that's what I thought
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 11/4/2009 12:39:32 PM
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reach
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I pay my tithes with a check. I try to pay them first before I pay anyone else. There have been times that the next time I am at church, that I did not write my tithe and I don't carry checks because I use my debit card. So it was nice to be able to pay my tithes with my debit card.
So many people don't even use checks anymore, and the world is moving toward the no mail thing, so I think since so many people pay using on line options, that this is just another on line options.
If people don't manager their money off line, they are going to be in debt whether they pay with a credit card or not. It is the responsibility of the person to manage their money, not the church.
Now for me, I still like my money in the basket, as we pray over the offering in service, and I like to be a part of that.
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RE: putting tithes on credit cards - 11/4/2009 1:32:17 PM
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trainfan
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I'm not sure I would leave a church if they started accepting credit cards. But since I own a business that accepts credit cards I can clarify a few things.
quote:
(2) The church isn't getting the full amount. They have to pay a monthly fee to accept the card(s), and they pay a percentage off each transaction (usually 1-3%, if I recall correctly). That's offering money going to waste, IMO.
This is correct. Credit card processors charge a transaction fee for each charge (20-25 cents) and a percentage of the transaction (about 2-2.5%).
quote:
Where do the points come from? They come from the fees the bank charges the church for accepting credit cards. So, if you give to the church on a CC to get points, those points are coming right out of the church's bank account.
This is also correct and why my store no longer accepts a particular type of card. They were charging us a $4.00 transaction fee for the first charge plus a percentage using their cards each month plus the processing companies fee and percentage and then at the end of the month we were charged a few more percent for "rewards points" from that particular card.
Then there are the privacy compliance rules if they use the computer and internet to process the payments. Which can be a headache and costly since the credit card companies may require all the church computers to be audited for security by an independent inspection company if card records are stored on any of them and they are networked together.
Someone else mentioned a church getting a discount like a large corporation. I know from experience you have to take a boat load of charges to get a better rate, unless you switch processors and play them against each other which can be a pain and time consuming.
IMO unless the church is raking in huge amounts from credit cards they are more bother than they are worth.
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Disappoints are inevitable, discouragment is a choice.
Dr. Charles Stanley.
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