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RE: Radiometric dating of recent volcanic rocks - 10/30/2009 4:30:34 PM
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drmark
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There are several reasonable answers to your objections, RC, that would probably go better on a new thread, especially in The Bible folder. Would you like me to start something on this subject or will you?
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RE: Radiometric dating of recent volcanic rocks - 10/30/2009 4:49:01 PM
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benelchi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Okay, I think I got what you're looking for. I believe Genesis 1:1 is a simple summary statement which introduces the first of ten toledoths in Genesis. The passage includes 1:1 through 2:4, the latter verse also representing a summary statement of Creation week. I'm sure that other interpretations of Genesis 1:1 are reasonable, but this one makes the most sense to me and is widely held by many Hebrew scholars.
Now, what about your question regarding a "specific date" for the beginning of creation. Since all calendars and dating systems are based on human observations and Genesis 1:14 states that the celestial bodies were created to mark calendar time, then I think it would be pretty much impossible to derive a date for the very initial instant of creation's beginning. However, using the genealogies of Genesis and the Chronicles and Luke, it is relatively easy to deduce the creation of Adam and Eve to be about 4000 years before the Incarnation. Furthermore, we have no reason from the original Hebrew text to think that the duration of the first three days of creation were of any different length than the last three days of creation. Thus, "in the beginning" is logically deduced to be about 6000 years ago from the present, but no specific calendar date is in Scripture. Which makes perfect sense to me since there was no calendar around then!
I logically disagee that "In the beginning" denotes about 6000 year past.
To use that 6000 years means that God started Genesis 1:2 the day after Genesis 1:1, and there is no Scriptural evidence that this is true.
As a matter of Scriptural understanding when God said this;
(Gen 1:28) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Replinish? to restore or replace; restore or replace what???
Or when Scrpture says;
(Gen 1:24) And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
(Gen 1:25) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
I think that these Scriptues in and of themselves (and there are plent of others) indicate that something was takeing place on earth between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2. Now how long did that take; I don't have a clue, but there does seem to be a time period there.
I certainly understand that many do not see, nor wat to see this; but this reading does not do anything to corrupt our understanding of Biblical Creation, but do a lot to explain other questionable passages.
Thanks
RC
However, the Hebrew in Ge. 1:28 does not say "replenish" but simply "fill" and Ge. 1:24 does not say "after its kind" but rather "to its kind." This idea of "refilling" the earth is something seen in only your paticular English translation and not something easily understood from the original Hebrew text.
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RE: Radiometric dating of recent volcanic rocks - 10/30/2009 4:55:59 PM
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demolay
Posts: 269
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quote:
To use that 6000 years means that God started Genesis 1:2 the day after Genesis 1:1, and there is no Scriptural evidence that this is true.
?? There is no scriptural evidence for "the day after" either, but there is scriptural evidence that Gen 1:2 is the first day recorded in scripture. Also, no one said Gen 1:1 itself indicates a 6000 year history. Read drmark's post again.
quote:
Replinish? to restore or replace; restore or replace what???
This is a common mistake. You are reading the King James Version translation, written when "replenish" meant simply "to fill". This is not a mis-translation of Hebrew, but of midevil English to the modern ear. If you read a modern English translation, it simply says "fill the Earth".
quote:
(Gen 1:25) And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
I think that these Scriptues in and of themselves (and there are plent of others) indicate that something was takeing place on earth between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2. Now how long did that take; I don't have a clue, but there does seem to be a time period there.
I have no idea what connection you see between creatures being "after his kind" and some time gap between 1:1 and 1:2. Perhaps you can explain this connection better. My guess is you are also misunderstanding "after" here to mean some reference to "later time" rather than the correct understanding of "according to".
quote:
but this reading does not do anything to corrupt our understanding of Biblical Creation, but do a lot to explain other questionable passages.
God bless you, RC. What other questionable passages?
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RE: Radiometric dating of recent volcanic rocks - 10/30/2009 4:57:22 PM
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demolay
Posts: 269
Joined: 10/31/2008
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quote:
However, the Hebrew in Ge. 1:28 does not say "replenish" but simply "fill" and Ge. 1:24 does not say "after its kind" but rather "to its kind." This idea of "refilling" the earth is something seen in only your paticular English translation and not something easily understood from the original Hebrew text.
Thank you, benelchi, well said.
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RE: Radiometric dating of recent volcanic rocks - 10/30/2009 7:14:54 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6726
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quote:
ORIGINAL: demolay
I have no idea what connection you see between creatures being "after his kind" and some time gap between 1:1 and 1:2. Perhaps you can explain this connection better. My guess is you are also misunderstanding "after" here to mean some reference to "later time" rather than the correct understanding of "according to".
Where are/were the kind that the animals were made according to?
Thanks
RC
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RE: Radiometric dating of recent volcanic rocks - 10/30/2009 7:33:02 PM
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drmark
Posts: 4622
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
I think that these Scriptues in and of themselves (and there are plent of others) indicate that something was takeing place on earth between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2. Now how long did that take; I don't have a clue, but there does seem to be a time period there. Well, as long as the OP or mods don't complain, I will continue responding here.
Genesis 1:2 is the most puzzling verse of the entire creation account, IMO. The historical record clearly states that light was the first physical entity created by divine action, so I really don't know what "earth" and "deep" and "waters" verse two is speaking of. It surely cannot be our earth, or even another planet, by the obvious description "formless and empty or void". Furthermore, I have always felt that the creation of light marked the creation of time, since light is energy moving in space through time. I do not see any Scriptural evidence that physical time as we understand it existed before God spoke light into existence.
So, here's my best take on verse 2: God was contemplating, preparing, and processing the "proto-elements" of matter/energy of the "proto-universe" which He would create ex nihilo into the space resulting from "proto-space" at the time resulting from "proto-time" which He sovereignly determined by speaking light into existence. It is thus illogical to consider anything physical happening before verse 3, since there was no physical universe until the divine creation of light.
Comments, anyone? (Please feel free to rip it apart linguistically, benelchi.  )
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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