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Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/11/2009 10:07:56 AM
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Linkoln
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We are saved by grace through faith. People want to distort that in our day and add works to what the Bible clearly teaches.
Romans 3-5
Romans 10:8-14
Ephesians 2:1-10
All of the scriptures are clear on this subject. As Christians we have an obligation to share the message of salvation. To share the message we must understand what it is and how salvation takes place.
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/11/2009 3:00:48 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Linkoln
We are saved by grace through faith. People want to distort that in our day and add works to what the Bible clearly teaches.
Romans 3-5
Romans 10:8-14
Ephesians 2:1-10
All of the scriptures are clear on this subject. As Christians we have an obligation to share the message of salvation. To share the message we must understand what it is and how salvation takes place.
What works was Paul talking about?
And which works are you talking about concerning today?
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/11/2009 3:12:28 PM
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greatdivide46
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I think the key verse in these passages is Romans 3:19-20, Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. (Emphasis mine.)
So what are the works of the law and are there any works that a Christian should do that would not be considered to be works of the law?
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/11/2009 4:18:38 PM
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drmark
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quote:
We are saved by grace through faith. People want to distort that in our day and add works to what the Bible clearly teaches. We are saved by grace through faith that demonstrates its genuine nature in performing works of love. People want to distort that in our day and subtract works from what the Bible clearly teaches.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/13/2009 3:47:17 PM
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frankman
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A convicted sinner came to a prominent Evangelist and asked him the age old question  What must I do to be saved? The Evangelist turned to him and said,  SORRY, you are to late to do anything. Being very disappointed in believing his time for earning his salvation had passed and that it was to late for him to be saved, the sinner walked away very dejected. However the Evangelist stopped him and explained to him what he had meant. This is what he meant.
There is nothing you or I can do today to earn out salvation for it has all been done for us by Christ already. Christ died for us on the cross. Our sins are all payed for, past, present and future, by the blood that Christ shed for us on the cross. All we can do now to appropriate this gracious forgiveness is to believe by faith in what Jesus has done for us. Acts 16:31 states "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
Eph.2:8+9 clearly tell us that salvation is a free gift received only by grace through faith in what Christ has done for us on the cross. So in order to bring us to the same page "drmark" is talking about in that this faith is demonstrated in its nature in performing good works out of love I like to quote Eph.2:10 also. "For we are God`s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." The result of our salvation will be a transformed lifestyle resulting in loving others and doing good works.
_____________________________
"Is not My word like fire,` declares the LORD, `and like a hammer that breaks a rock in peaces?" Jeremiah 23:29
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/14/2009 5:16:43 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: frankman
A convicted sinner came to a prominent Evangelist and asked him the age old question What must I do to be saved? The Evangelist turned to him and said, SORRY, you are to late to do anything. Being very disappointed in believing his time for earning his salvation had passed and that it was to late for him to be saved, the sinner walked away very dejected. However the Evangelist stopped him and explained to him what he had meant. This is what he meant.
There is nothing you or I can do today to earn out salvation for it has all been done for us by Christ already. Christ died for us on the cross. Our sins are all payed for, past, present and future, by the blood that Christ shed for us on the cross. All we can do now to appropriate this gracious forgiveness is to believe by faith in what Jesus has done for us. Acts 16:31 states "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved."
Eph.2:8+9 clearly tell us that salvation is a free gift received only by grace through faith in what Christ has done for us on the cross. So in order to bring us to the same page "drmark" is talking about in that this faith is demonstrated in its nature in performing good works out of love I like to quote Eph.2:10 also. "For we are God`s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." The result of our salvation will be a transformed lifestyle resulting in loving others and doing good works.
It's a creative approach, I suppose, but manipulative in my opinion. Couldn't he just have given him a straight answer right away?
_____________________________
Larry
"Clarity before agreement." Dennis Prager
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 11:47:22 AM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: frankman
The result of our salvation will be a transformed lifestyle resulting in loving others and doing good works.
In my view a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation as well......most salvation narratives require repentance first.
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 2:00:31 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
In my view a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation as well
So Paul wasn't saved?
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 2:17:54 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
In my view a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation as well
So Paul wasn't saved?
What do you mean? I don't understand your question. 
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 2:19:25 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
What do you mean? I don't understand your question.
You said that a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation. Saul/Paul did not have a transformed lifestyle prior to his salvation experience on the road to Damascus. So, according to your previous statement, he didn't actually receive salvation.
_____________________________
"To the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sun is really a sun; to the humble man, and to the humble man alone, the sea is really a sea."
-G. K. Chesterton
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 2:36:54 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
What do you mean? I don't understand your question.
You said that a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation. Saul/Paul did not have a transformed lifestyle prior to his salvation experience on the road to Damascus. So, according to your previous statement, he didn't actually receive salvation.
What makes you say that? I believe he repented of his sins before he was saved. So what makes you think he didn't start transforming his life before he was saved?
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 2:59:14 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
What do you mean? I don't understand your question.
You said that a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation. Saul/Paul did not have a transformed lifestyle prior to his salvation experience on the road to Damascus. So, according to your previous statement, he didn't actually receive salvation.
Well Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus he was saved three days later after he had time to cosider the error of his ways and to repent; Paul was saved here;
(Act 9:17) And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
(Act 9:18) And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
He saw the light (as it were), considered his evil ways, repented and was Baptized just like Peter said in Acts 2:38.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 3:07:16 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
What do you mean? I don't understand your question.
You said that a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation. Saul/Paul did not have a transformed lifestyle prior to his salvation experience on the road to Damascus. So, according to your previous statement, he didn't actually receive salvation.
Well Paul was not saved on the road to Damascus he was saved three days later after he had time to cosider the error of his ways and to repent; Paul was saved here;
(Act 9:17) And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
(Act 9:18) And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
He saw the light (as it were), considered his evil ways, repented and was Baptized just like Peter said in Acts 2:38.
Thanks
RC
RC that is my view as well.
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 3:30:03 PM
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copybingo
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I've always understood that the gift of salvation is by grace and by grace, alone. Lately, however, I've been confronted with arguments favoring reformed theology. My rebuttal question is "When was the work of salvation finished by God through Jesus?" If not at the cross, when? Reformers would have us believe that the Holy Spirit must enter those elected to salvation before they can believe. Otherwise, our mere "acceptence" of the free gift of salvation is actually a "work" and, therefore, salvation is not totally the work of God. Therefore, we participate in our own salvation. I don't believe that. I don't believe faith is a "work", however I don't see how reformers can take it any other way.
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 3:45:58 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: copybingo
I've always understood that the gift of salvation is by grace and by grace, alone. Lately, however, I've been confronted with arguments favoring reformed theology. My rebuttal question is "When was the work of salvation finished by God through Jesus?" If not at the cross, when? Reformers would have us believe that the Holy Spirit must enter those elected to salvation before they can believe. Otherwise, our mere "acceptence" of the free gift of salvation is actually a "work" and, therefore, salvation is not totally the work of God. Therefore, we participate in our own salvation. I don't believe that. I don't believe faith is a "work", however I don't see how reformers can take it any other way.
Well is it grace alone or faith alone? Which one? If it is by grace alone then salvation is not by faith. If it is faith alone then salvation is not by grace. Which is it?
The work of salvation was finished by God on the cross through Jesus. The gift has been given. How do we appropriate the gift? God tells us over and over again in the scriptures. Belief, repentance & baptism!
Of course we participate in our own salvation however we do not nor ever merit it.
Participating in our own salvation does not mean we are working for it.
Grace and obedience are not mutually exclusive biblically! It never has been!
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 3:55:08 PM
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Eutychus
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For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 4:00:02 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9
Couldn't agree more!
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 4:12:29 PM
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copybingo
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Faith follows grace, of course. It is almost pharisitical(if that's a word!)to think that anything more than the gift of the finality of the cross would be necessary. Thank you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: copybingo
I've always understood that the gift of salvation is by grace and by grace, alone. Lately, however, I've been confronted with arguments favoring reformed theology. My rebuttal question is "When was the work of salvation finished by God through Jesus?" If not at the cross, when? Reformers would have us believe that the Holy Spirit must enter those elected to salvation before they can believe. Otherwise, our mere "acceptence" of the free gift of salvation is actually a "work" and, therefore, salvation is not totally the work of God. Therefore, we participate in our own salvation. I don't believe that. I don't believe faith is a "work", however I don't see how reformers can take it any other way.
Well is it grace alone or faith alone? Which one? If it is by grace alone then salvation is not by faith. If it is faith alone then salvation is not by grace. Which is it?
The work of salvation was finished by God on the cross through Jesus. The gift has been given. How do we appropriate the gift? God tells us over and over again in the scriptures. Belief, repentance & baptism!
Of course we participate in our own salvation however we do not nor ever merit it.
Participating in our own salvation does not mean we are working for it.
Grace and obedience are not mutually exclusive biblically! It never has been!
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 4:17:32 PM
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jjbird
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quote:
ORIGINAL: copybingo
Faith follows grace, of course. It is almost pharisitical(if that's a word!)to think that anything more than the gift of the finality of the cross would be necessary. Thank you.
What do you mean?
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/15/2009 6:31:36 PM
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greatdivide46
Posts: 1585
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9
Couldn't agree more!
Amen. Great verse and completely true!
_____________________________
greatdivide46
<===avatar is US soldiers in Iraq at sunset
You are to rise in the presence of the elderly and honor the old. -- Leviticus 19:32
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/16/2009 8:53:25 AM
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drmark
Posts: 4622
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quote:
In my view a transformed lifestyle must precede salvation as well......most salvation narratives require repentance first. Repentance does NOT equal a "transformed lifestyle"! Repentance is aknowledgement of sin, sincere sorrow for offending God, and admission that we have no power to stop sinning without God's grace. A transformed lifestyle requires the indwelling Holy Spirit and continued obedience to His guidance while we grow in Christian Love.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9 Sorry, guys, but the original text states that "salvation by grace" is the gift, NOT faith. God cannot and will not believe for us! Where do you all come up with this distorted view of grace and faith. It just is not found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is accountability - everyone is responsible for appropriating God's grace. And He will even provide grace for that as well. But God does not have automatic saving faith on our behalf!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/16/2009 9:21:12 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
-Ephesians 2:8-9 Sorry, guys, but the original text states that "salvation by grace" is the gift, NOT faith. God cannot and will not believe for us! Where do you all come up with this distorted view of grace and faith. It just is not found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is accountability - everyone is responsible for appropriating God's grace. And He will even provide grace for that as well. But God does not have automatic saving faith on our behalf!
Sorry, DrMark, I haven't said any such thing.
But I am NOT of the opinion that any human since Adam is capable of coming to the Father unless the Father draws him. Scripture is abundantly clear that man has no desire or inclination for God and that none is righteous, no not one, including those who think they were born with some superior character trait that makes them want to be saved while others are too flawed to accept the greatest offer ever provided for fallen man.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/16/2009 10:28:56 AM
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copybingo
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From my original question, having to do with reformed theology, it seems that the finality of the cross is not the final step in the finished work of God in salvation. It seems the Holy Spirit must enable some to have the desire to believe while leaving those not elected to have the scales over their eyes left in place. Those enabled by the Holy Spirit to believe do not resist and are, therefore, saved. Hence, their concept of "irresistable grace". This is what I meant.
quote:
ORIGINAL: jjbird
quote:
ORIGINAL: copybingo
Faith follows grace, of course. It is almost pharisitical(if that's a word!)to think that anything more than the gift of the finality of the cross would be necessary. Thank you.
What do you mean?
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/16/2009 10:36:30 AM
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jjbird
Posts: 503
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Repentance does NOT equal a "transformed lifestyle"! Repentance is aknowledgement of sin, sincere sorrow for offending God, and admission that we have no power to stop sinning without God's grace.
In Greek, metanoia is literally a change of mind. This change of mind leads to a change in life. Similarly, the O.T. Hebrew is teshuvah, from the verb shuv, meaning "to turn." God expects us to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
quote:
A transformed lifestyle requires the indwelling Holy Spirit and continued obedience to His guidance while we grow in Christian Love.
To some degree yes however God expects us to change our lives when coming to Jesus. We cannot come to Him still practicing sin.
quote:
-Ephesians 2:8-9 Sorry, guys, but the original text states that "salvation by grace" is the gift, NOT faith. God cannot and will not believe for us! Where do you all come up with this distorted view of grace and faith. It just is not found in Scripture. What is found in Scripture is accountability - everyone is responsible for appropriating God's grace. And He will even provide grace for that as well. But God does not have automatic saving faith on our behalf!
Who here said the gift was faith? The gift is salvation that Paul speaks....I agree and do not understand why you made your statement when no made the claim you are refuting.
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RE: Do You Understand That Salvation is by Grace? - 10/16/2009 6:22:02 PM
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drmark
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Okay, thanks for the reprimand. Apparently I was wrong on my reading of this thread's comments on Eph 2:8, but I have read in the past those who argue that faith is the gift referred to, not salvation. And that is exegetically incorrect.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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