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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 2:09:51 PM
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AlabamaAlan
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quote:
Now if you would be so kind, please define for me what the definition is of religion. Does it mean something that can meet "tax exempt status". Then if you would be so kind as to explain the differences between masonry and "religion." FYI: do you know that by and large Buddhism is often not considered a religion by practitioners.
Now as to masonic rituals, it is simply dismissive to make statements such as "we are all different" and "nobody uses that anymore." There are consistent things done in one lodge after another. Now while the rituals may very in terms of "flavor" of how carried out, the message and ideals are the same throughout. Duncan's ritual and the Nevada rituals posted here are similar but vary at some degree. They are consistent with the essential teachings.
Each time I've mentioned there are differences I have also said that variations may still be generalized. I just don't want to get caught up on any one quote or ritual.
As for a definition or differences between religion and Masonry, I am going to provide the text of an answer given by the late John J. Robinson since he has already said it better than I ever could. He is an author who researched Masonry and was instrumental in setting up the Masonic Information Center.
Some of the highlights are that unlike religion, Masonry offers no ordination, plan of salvation, any of its own sacred scripture, etc.
What I get out of Masonry is the same as what I have gotten out of any organization I have joined. I enjoy the company of the people; I like working on various projects, etc. but none of this is to fill any spiritual void if that is what you are getting at. Some people enjoy ritual work, some like history and education, some like charity work, some like the social aspects - there are various reasons that people choose to join Masonry.
< Message edited by AlabamaAlan -- 11/9/2009 2:23:03 PM >
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 2:20:13 PM
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AlabamaAlan
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This is the text from a Masonic Short Talk Bulletin
************************************************
Is Freemasonry a Religion?
By: John J. Robinson
I've lost count of how many times I have been asked, "Isn't Freemasonry a separate religion?" It's a question that creates a question: "How in the world did anyone come to believe that Masonry is a religion?" When I ask that, I am usually told by the callers that they heard the charge on an evangelist's broadcast, or read it in an anti-Masonic tract or book. No one who has asked me the question has claimed to have come up with the notion from personal knowledge or experience.
The basic question has been addressed over and over again: "No, Masonry is not a religion. It has no intention of being a religion. It doesn't want to be a religion." But those replies rarely have any impact on non-Masons for the simple reason that the defense of Masonry is usually directed at other Masons, not at the masses who are the targets of the anti-Masonic evangelists. What is obviously needed is a broader audience for the defense.
One point that is confusing to many is the frequent statement by Masonic writers that Freemasons are "religious." They are, but being religious in no way carries with it the concept of being part of a separate religion. My own parents were very religious, but I really don't believe that they were a separate religion. Any minister of the gospel will agree that he is religious, but every one will deny that he considers his teachings to be those of a separate religion.
Usually, the allegation that Masonry is a separate religion is helped along by one or more blatant falsehoods-for example, the charge that Masonry has its own path to salvation, through the performance of good works. I never met a Mason who believed that, or who would be able to understand how anyone could ever draw such a conclusion. In practice, it is a handy point for anti-Masons, who are frequently confronted with, "But if the Masons are such evil people, how do you explain their free hospitals, their language-disorder clinics for children, their eye-care program, their homes for the elderly, and all those other Masonic charities?"
The anti-Masonic answer comes back as, "The Masonic charities are not beloved of God because the Masons teach that good works are the way to salvation. That makes those charities against the will of God." That's sick, but it's what some of them say.
Masonry leaves it up to the individual Mason to choose his pathway to God, and that policy naturally includes no rules, advice, or admonitions as to the means of salvation. The Mason is expected, quite properly, to get that spiritual guidance from his own denomination, which he is encouraged to support with both his energy and his personal finances.
Time after time in various lectures, the Freemason is told never to put his duties and responsibilities to the Masonic fraternity ahead of his duties and responsibilities to his church, to his country, and to his family. As for Masonic charities, whether they are organized major efforts or individual acts of kindness (such as aid to a destitute brother, or to his widow and their children), the Mason is told to make no gift that will affect his duty to care for his own family. In the ceremonies and lectures that lead to a man being raised to the status of Master Mason, he hears no description of heaven or hell. He hears no religious dogma. He hears no mention of Satan. He is told of no Masonic pathway to salvation for the simple reason that there is none.
The only religious item in the Masonic lodge is the holy book of the initiate's own faith. Since most Masons are Protestant Christians, that book is usually the King James version of the Bible. The initiate may be given a Masonic Bible by his lodge, his friends, or his family, but it varies from other editions of actual Scripture by not one single word. It is only a "Masonic" Bible because it also contains a brief history of Masonry, or a concordance to relate certain Masonic ritual to scriptural passages. Masons who are not Protestants* bring their own holy books for their initiations.
Let's start at the beginning: When a man decides to become a Mason, based on what he has seen, heard, or experienced, he files an application, or "petition," with a local Masonic lodge. In signing that petition he asserts that he believes in God, the Supreme Being, and in the immortality of the soul. In the lecture accompanying the initiation rites of the first degree, called Entered Apprentice, he is told that how he chooses to worship God is up to his own conscience.
The religious experience in the lodge is prayer. Every meeting of Masons opens and closes with prayer. Every meal begins with prayer. As is done so often by the federal government (as, for example, with "In God we trust"), all prayer is addressed (or should be) to God the Father, so that a mixed audience of Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists, for instance, can relate that prayer to their own worship. Masons also offer prayers for charitable endeavors, for bereaved Masons and their families, or for a departed brother.
Clearly, one can easily assert that Freemasonry is not a separate religion. It promotes no heaven, no hell, and no means of salvation. There's no "witnessing" or arguing over religious beliefs in the lodge. There is no religious dogma. It can't be a religion.
Nevertheless, it is frequently charged that the Masonic lodge has its own God, whose name is "The Great Architect of the Universe." That Masonic term is not a name; it is a designation or reference, as are all terms beginning with the word "The": The Almighty, The Creator, The Most High. If it starts with "The," it is not a name. So why do the Masons use that designation?
Masonry, as its name implies, centers symbolically around the ancient builders of temples and cathedrals. It is natural for groups to fashion a designation for God that relates to their interests. In the military, I attended an outdoor church service conducted by a visiting chaplain, an ordained minister. He referred to God as "Our Supreme Commander-in-Chief in heaven." The Masons often do refer to God as The Great Architect of the Universe, but what's wrong with that? The architect is one who plans and brings a structure into being. Historians refer to the Founding Fathers as the "architects of the Constitution." As a designation for God, The Great Architect of the Universe makes sense, and it means precisely the same thing as the universally popular "The Creator." The slight difference is that the Masonic designation implies that God created the world according to a plan, although there is no Masonic description of what that plan may be.
*Judeo/Christians use the Holy Bible. Other faiths may use their Holy Book.
FREEMASONRY AND RELIGION
Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It requires of its members belief in God as part of the obligation of every responsible adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic ceremonies include prayers, both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each individual's dependence on God and to seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, but religion may not be discussed at Masonic meetings.
The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek, and to express what they know of, God. Masonry primarily uses the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other nonsectarian titles, to address Deity, In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and scared.
Volume of the Sacred Law. An open volume of the Sacred Law, "the rule and guide of life,'' is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law to a Christian is the Bible; to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book held holy by them.
The Oath of Freemasonry. The obligations taken by Freemasons are sworn on the Volume of the Sacred Law. They are undertakings to follow the principles of Freemasonry and to keep confidential a Freemason's means of recognition. The much discussed "penalties," judicial remnants from an earlier era, are symbolic, not literal. They refer only to the pain any honest man should feel at the thought of violating his word.
Freemasonry Compared with Religion. Freemasonry lacks the basic elements of religion:
(a) It has no dogma or theology, no wish or means to enforce religious orthodoxy.
(b) It offers no sacraments.
(c) It does not claim to lead to salvation by works, by secret knowledge, or by any other means. The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with modes of recognition, not with the means of salvation.
Freemasonry supports Religion. Freemasonry is far from indifferent toward religion. Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his own faith and to place his Duty to God above all other duties. Its moral teachings are acceptable to all religions.
****************************************************
I hope that this has been helpful. I believe he provides an excellent summary of Masonic beliefs and (often well-intentioned) misconceptions
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 4:42:12 PM
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orderofscotland
Posts: 146
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Here we have a great example of the brotherhood of the Freemasons free from bigotry and intolerance,
and love our fellow man
Peacebringer posted
" Christ is what the word of God points to, it is what the Torah points to, it is what the Prophets point to"
I phoned and talked to a couple of Jewish Masons I know, they do not agree with that statement at all.
However we sit in a Masonic Lodge as brothers, all equal, all Gods creation
We cannot even discuss the difference of opinion, discussion of politics and religion is banned in Masonic Lodges
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 5:03:43 PM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: orderofscotland
Peackeeper
Your questions to me are of a personal nature and really none of your business.
I could call you bigoted and equivalent of the Christian Taliban but out of my caring for my fellow man and from
my respect for others I will not do that. You have absolutely no
tolerance at all for those practicing other religions, or those who do not adhere to
your own personal line of thinking.
I see no reason why any organization should change their ways just to please a few intolerant
so called Christians.
And those who have no respect for brotherly love.
I think one other poster has referred to your persistent intolerance and lack of respect for others.
Sorry if you feel offended by the question of why you joined masons. You are free not to respond.
Intersting, you go ahead and do what you say you won't do. Saying, I could call you this, but I won't, is really displaying where you thinking lies.
In terms of "intolerance" the only time anything was mentioned regarding that with me was my disrepectful enterance into the conversation with the blanket "masonry is evil" which I since have acknowledge was not a loving response and have since taken the time to engage this conversation further.
Now regarding "tolerance" for other religions. Tolerance is false peace. A Christian who practices so called "tolerance" for other religions, tolerate others to the point of dooming them to hell. Knowing that if any do not turn to Jesus, they are eternally seperated from God, should lead one not to tolerate other religions. Now does that mean I go around "pushing my faith" on others. Nope, I work in secular work place, I have restrictions on what I can and cannot say, yet folks know full well where I stand and what I beleive. I also work with several homosexuals/lesbians and encounter them and always treat them with love and respect, inspite of my thoughts about their orientation.
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 5:11:06 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 273
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quote:
ORIGINAL: orderofscotland
Here we have a great example of the brotherhood of the Freemasons free from bigotry and intolerance,
and love our fellow man
Peacebringer posted
" Christ is what the word of God points to, it is what the Torah points to, it is what the Prophets point to"
I phoned and talked to a couple of Jewish Masons I know, they do not agree with that statement at all.
However we sit in a Masonic Lodge as brothers, all equal, all Gods creation
We cannot even discuss the difference of opinion, discussion of politics and religion is banned in Masonic Lodges
Of course Jewish masons do not, they do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah. If you were to talk to Jews who accept Yeshua as Messiah, you would get a different answer. WOuld you expect any different answer? Either you believe Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life or you do not. EIther you believe in the narrow way or you do not. We are all God's creations, but we are not all equal. The people you are sitting next to that do not accept Jesus are doomed to hell. Granted it is a little trickier with Jewish brethen and God is the ultimate judge. The only brother for a Christian is fellow Christians. You are giving clear example of the concern and are pointing to the universality element that at a minumum is concerning.
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 5:54:30 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 835
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
I work in secular work place, I have restrictions on what I can and cannot say, yet folks know full well where I stand and what I beleive. I also work with several homosexuals/lesbians and encounter them and always treat them with love and respect, inspite of my thoughts about their orientation. \
peacebringer,
What, if any, would the difference be between working in a secular workplace (where people of many different faiths belong), and going to meetings as part of an organization where people of many different faiths belong?
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 6:17:35 PM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
I work in secular work place, I have restrictions on what I can and cannot say, yet folks know full well where I stand and what I believe. I also work with several homosexuals/lesbians and encounter them and always treat them with love and respect, in spite of my thoughts about their orientation. \
peacebringer,
What, if any, would the difference be between working in a secular workplace (where people of many different faiths belong), and going to meetings as part of an organization where people of many different faiths belong?
The difference is being in the world and not of it. Freemasonry is more than just an organization/club. Theyhave specific instructions and educate a particular viewpoint that is not keeping with the Gospel. It does not involve a covenant relationship. I do not refer to co-workers as brothers or sisters.
I have more to say on the matter, but I do not have time to go into further details and want to establish some language understanding before further expanding on a point.
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 6:51:52 PM
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peacebringer
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question: are either of the masons here willing to discuss what they view as the symbolism of the Hiram Abif story associated with the 3rd degree? I suspect not, but really would be helpful if you would.
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/9/2009 6:57:26 PM
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prophet
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
I work in secular work place, I have restrictions on what I can and cannot say, yet folks know full well where I stand and what I beleive. I also work with several homosexuals/lesbians and encounter them and always treat them with love and respect, inspite of my thoughts about their orientation. \
peacebringer,
What, if any, would the difference be between working in a secular workplace (where people of many different faiths belong), and going to meetings as part of an organization where people of many different faiths belong?
In my understanding, the red cross, rottary, lions do not use oaths with religious conotations, ie having some names if god.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 6:52:11 AM
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orderofscotland
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Peacebringer
You claim that those of all other religions will burn in hell, well so will many Christians.
Jesus said I am the way the truth and the life, NO ONE goes to the father but buy me.
That means any person who does not believe or accept Jesus does not go to heaven.
That would include Christians mentally retarded, still born and aborted babies, and those who died before they were a age to be responsible.
It would also include those from around the world who, from no fault of their own, were born in areas were the Christian religion was totally unknown.
This was actually pointed out to me by a Christian minister many years ago.
This is a contentious issue no doubt so I will let it go at that and mention or discuss it no more.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 8:20:12 AM
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AlabamaAlan
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Actually, I understand Peacebringer's point that having co-workers is not necessarily the same as choosing to join an organization.
However, if one wants to truly say that Christians should be separate, I see no difference in following workplace etiquette to not evangelize and/or criticize your co-workers and me not doing it in lodge.
If I am to be criticized for not attempting to evangelize anyone with a different belief in lodge, then by not saying anything to co-workers, you too are condoning their activities. (To be fair, I think it may have been lw9 who was pushing that point though - I did not look back, so I use this more as an example than to pick on Peacebringer)
quote:
Theyhave specific instructions and educate a particular viewpoint that is not keeping with the Gospel.
What viewpoint does not keep with the Gospel?? Masonry does not teach salvation though it does teach morality. It is not a religious organization and does not contradict the Gospel. Your quote above could be applied to any organization, sports team, or group that is not a Christian church.
quote:
In my understanding, the red cross, rottary, lions do not use oaths with religious conotations, ie having some names if god.
As discussed before, they have prayers that are addressed to "God" or other non-specific terms when eating meals, if not at other times. Oaths are taken to God (in a generic sense) by elected officials, courts, etc. This happens in many organizations in our society but I am not seeing threads against them.
quote:
This is a contentious issue no doubt so I will let it go at that and mention or discuss it no more. That would be best, because it goes far beyond the scope of this discussion and attempts to keep it civil. Thanks
As for Hiram Abiff - no, I would not want to discuss specifics of rituals in depth. I will say, however, that there is no resurrection involved and it is taken as legend and not an actual event.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 8:45:48 AM
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orderofscotland
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Progressive Christians are very active at the United Nations in working together with other faiths of the world.
A person can spend days on the site studying the various Christian organizations within the United Nations.
They work side by side with other religions just like the Masons to make the world a better place.
It is worth ones time just to do some United Nations research into religion and religious work around the world.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 10:06:57 AM
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GroupW
Posts: 2830
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From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlabamaAlan
However, if one wants to truly say that Christians should be separate, I see no difference in following workplace etiquette to not evangelize and/or criticize your co-workers and me not doing it in lodge.
If I am to be criticized for not attempting to evangelize anyone with a different belief in lodge, then by not saying anything to co-workers, you too are condoning their activities. (To be fair, I think it may have been lw9 who was pushing that point though - I did not look back, so I use this more as an example than to pick on Peacebringer)
I agree with that and had tried to make that point earlier. Every day, we pass by SOMEONE without evangelizing them. Every day we make a choice on where and whom to speak with and under what circumstances. Choosing to evangelize outside the lodge rather than inside should not be an issue.
_____________________________
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"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 10:13:34 AM
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McFatty
Posts: 835
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
I work in secular work place, I have restrictions on what I can and cannot say, yet folks know full well where I stand and what I beleive. I also work with several homosexuals/lesbians and encounter them and always treat them with love and respect, inspite of my thoughts about their orientation. \
peacebringer,
What, if any, would the difference be between working in a secular workplace (where people of many different faiths belong), and going to meetings as part of an organization where people of many different faiths belong?
In my understanding, the red cross, rottary, lions do not use oaths with religious conotations, ie having some names if god.
If I witness a crime and choose to go to court to testify, I take an oath with religious connotations to do so. If I decide to serve my community or country in the armed forces, in a political field, or in many other service areas, I take an oath with religious connotations. Are all these equally evil? Soldiers refer to their fellow soldiers as brothers in arms. I've heard this many times, living only a few miles from a military base. Are you who are opposed to masonry just as opposed to a soldier taking an oath and building brotherly comradeship with their fellow soldiers?
_____________________________
"O LORD, You have pleaded my soul's cause; You have redeemed my life." - Lamentations 3:58
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 10:20:55 AM
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peacebringer
Posts: 273
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orderofscotland- in terms of the Judgement of God regarding those who have not heard of Jesus, mentally retarded, and so on that is a whole other topic. As to the UN, that also is a whole other topic. I am already on record elsewhere for what I think of the UN. That is a whole other can of worms.
Alan: I can respect attempts to "evangalize" outside of the lodge and that is not a central issue for me. Rather the issue for me is what is at the core of what Masonry teaches. I see you at least acknowledge that freemasonry teaches a morality.
Alan, now see given that you are abiding by oaths of secrecy, you have really no sound ability to engage in adequate discussion. All you can say is things like Hiram Abiff has nothing to do with resurrection. Will you agree that what happens in masonry is generalyl symbolic and allegorical. Then if so, the question is what is the meaning alluded to by the symbols. You cannot or will not discuss it directly. I would hope that you or anyone else is going to suggest that legend is symbolic of Jesus. If so please indicate so. It is also worth noting that the "legend" and ritual is pretty much unchanged and a central part of masonry to the point where not much variation occurs. Is that or is that not accurate?
_____________________________
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 12:02:44 PM
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orderofscotland
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The president of the United States is a Muslim, his thoughts and actions and what he does are not centered around the Gospel and Jesus.
He is a Muslim president in a Christian country, but yet I have not seen the Christians attack him the way they do Freemasons.
The Freemasons are not a Christian or any other religion so why would any sane person think they have to be Jesus and the Gospel centered.
Why attack Freemasons and not the President of the United States.
Do we have dual standard here
Furthermore after reading several books put out by so called Christians I have to conclude that those who attack Freemasons are not really Christians.
By their actions alone it rules out Christianity, it is just a front to sell books and make money.
People who twist and turn the Bible and the sacred writings for profit to suit their own agenda are money changers, not Christians, they should be thrown out of the Christian Temple.
Christians are falsely led to believe that just because literature comes form so Called Christian sources it has to be true.
It is a disgrace the amount of Christian trash that is published and then quoted by those unable to think and reason.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 12:12:19 PM
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orderofscotland
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A few years ago the Christian church was very vocal and upset over the FICTION book by Dan Brown titled "The Devinci Code"
His new book titled "The Lost Symbol" is about the Freemasons and has sold millions of copies.
But the silence of the church has been deafening.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 12:24:00 PM
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peacebringer
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OOS- Okay you just posted 3 more areas of "Hot discussion" that could serve to side track the discussion.
1. The faith of the president.
2. Christian publishing industry
3. Dan Brown and his books.
Engaging in further discussions of such would resulting in getting away from the discussion of the compatibility of mason beliefs with Christianity.
Essentially the main defense of mason beliefs is with the compatibility of Scripture is this, and correct me if I am wrong, it does not impose upon whatever faith you may hold. It teaches you to maintain morality within your chosen faith. It is simple a club to generate a fraternal bond between men. It is not a religion, it simply advocates and teaches morality.
Is there anything I am not understanding in the essential defense of Freemasonry as presented in this thread? I do not want to create straw-men in engaging this discussion, so want to see if I understand the point accurately.
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True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 12:29:53 PM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
quote:
I work in secular work place, I have restrictions on what I can and cannot say, yet folks know full well where I stand and what I believe. I also work with several homosexuals/lesbians and encounter them and always treat them with love and respect, in spite of my thoughts about their orientation. \
sobering,
What, if any, would the difference be between working in a secular workplace (where people of many different faiths belong), and going to meetings as part of an organization where people of many different faiths belong?
In my understanding, the red cross, rottary, lions do not use oaths with religious connotations, ie having some names if god.
If I witness a crime and choose to go to court to testify, I take an oath with religious connotations to do so. If I decide to serve my community or country in the armed forces, in a political field, or in many other service areas, I take an oath with religious connotations. Are all these equally evil? Soldiers refer to their fellow soldiers as brothers in arms. I've heard this many times, living only a few miles from a military base. Are you who are opposed to masonry just as opposed to a soldier taking an oath and building brotherly comradeship with their fellow soldiers?
Comparison's to soldiers in interesting here. The whole aspect of being a Christian and dealing with authority and the conscripts of law and the culture of country live in is a wide topic and can be a huge tangent. Being a citizen of a country and being in the world but not of it, just as a workplace while be an ambassador of Jesus certainly have some similarities, but I think there are essential differences as well. The primary being that it is a covenant relationships.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 12:49:33 PM
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AlabamaAlan
Posts: 47
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Peacbringer, what is it that you mean by a covenant relationship between Masons that are not between members of any fraternity?
As for the story of Hiram Abiff, I assume that it is similar and an intrigal part of craft Masonry throughout the US if not the world.
If you do a quick Internet search, you will see that different Masons and Non-Masons have various interpretations.
That is an aggrevating fault in Masonic study - as there is no specific source or one governing authority, symbols and allegories are left open to multiple interpretations. I have seen contradictory stories given by various Grand Lodges, and authors Masonic, anti, and non
I do not think that most Masons see the H.A. allegory as being a symbol of Jesus (though some may). In the lessons he is given as a man devoted to God, who performed his duty and was killed. His body was putrified and he was raised from the grave to be reburied into the temple and honored.
Although Masons teach the immortality of the soul, they do not give a plan of salvation.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 12:55:00 PM
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orderofscotland
Posts: 146
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The President of the United States is exactly like a Masonic Lodge, discussing one is the same as the other.
The president is the Master, those under him are of all faiths occupying one nation.
When he prays in public it is for the nation not for his own personal religion.
Condemning Masons over religious issues is no different than condemning the President of the United States over he being not christian in a christian Nation.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 1:12:06 PM
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orderofscotland
Posts: 146
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Perhaps peacebringer can tell us what christian religion is the best the one true church. I have been to Christian Bookstores were they have literature condemning everybody including the Freemasons.
It was very noticeable the absence of anything against Baptists. Practicably all anti Masonic literature is from a Baptist.
In my town we have three Baptist churches and they hate each other, and they have different types of services. The Protestants hate the Catholics and the Catholics hate the protestants.
Both publishing and selling literature against each other under a tax exempt policy.
Which Christian religion is the one true religion, how many are fakes.
The reason their are so many types of Christian churches is because they cannot agree on what is correct withing the religion, they interpret the bible different.
The Freemasons do not have the problems Christian churches do, they can sit down and work out their differences. But that is impossible in the Christian church,
They are bigoted toward each other.
Even Peacebringer said he was against the United Nations and bringing religions together. I can understand that, they can't even agree in the Christian religion let alone
getting along with others.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 1:50:31 PM
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peacebringer
Posts: 273
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quote:
ORIGINAL: orderofscotland
The President of the United States is exactly like a Masonic Lodge, discussing one is the same as the other.
The president is the Master, those under him are of all faiths occupying one nation.
When he prays in public it is for the nation not for his own personal religion.
Condemning Masons over religious issues is no different than condemning the President of the United States over he being not christian in a christian Nation.
The faith of the current president is a tangent. It is not established for fact what is faith his. He claims Christian, you say he is muslim. It is simply tangential.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 2:41:52 PM
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orderofscotland
Posts: 146
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Sorry Peacbringer, you are wrong again
The President of the United States is a Muslim
It can be confirmed on Youtube by searching Obama Muslim.
There are several movies there with him admitting it. Therefor you are living in the United States as a Christian
the same as if you were sitting in a Masonic Lodge.
All faiths together under one Master one Nation
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RE: Masonic beliefs? - 11/10/2009 2:48:56 PM
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orderofscotland
Posts: 146
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I am still waiting to hear which is the one true Christian Religion from Peacemaker
Which church represents Christianity properly.
Personally I have to think it would be the Orthodox churches because they are the original Christian Church.
The Roman Catholics separated from them in 1050.
I attend Baptist because my brother in law is the minister but I prefer Anglican
Anglicans are more realistic about everyday life
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