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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:07:59 AM
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sharonjef2007
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quote:
Don't you think there is a principal here with regards to sin...period? If you don't, I do. I really think you are overlooking a principal regarding sin....if you are a Christian you are a part of the body of Christ and your sin reflects on and hurts all of us. (generic you)
Ok, perhaps I'm too literal a person, and we totally don't have to agree here. I do think the church (if they are even aware of the sin in the first place) should confront them. HOWEVER......please explain to me how the church can fully fulfill the Matthew scripture? It can't, it will cut out two important steps:
1. The person who was sinned against needs to confront the sinner. (there is no person who was sinned against, so this can't happen)
2. If the sinner does not repent, the person sinned against gets a small group of peers to confront. (again, there is no person sinned against, so can't happen)
Let me as you this question.....if person A sins against person B, does that also mean that person A sins against person B's spouce? I don't think so. And, the church is the bride of Christ, not Christ's equal. So, I don't buy that a person who is sinning against God is also sinning against every single Christian out there or the church as a whole.
There are situations in the Bible that show people or church leaders confronting a person's sin. I don't think that is contraindicated here. I just don't think you (general you) can use the Matthew scripture to back up that choice.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:37:01 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
Ok, perhaps I'm too literal a person, and we totally don't have to agree here. I do think the church (if they are even aware of the sin in the first place) should confront them. HOWEVER......please explain to me how the church can fully fulfill the Matthew scripture? It can't, it will cut out two important steps:
Again, I am addressing the principal in Matthew. You do know that one should not make a doctrine out of one verse or example, right?
The principal in Matthew is to expose and repent of sin and what occurs if the sinner will not repent and stop sinning.
quote:
1. The person who was sinned against needs to confront the sinner. (there is no person who was sinned against, so this can't happen)
I have news for you. You sin against your own body, the body of Christ.....what? don't you know your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit?...and all other members. Further, Scripture teaches we become one with the person we have sexual intercourse with. Stating no one is sinned against, seems to indicate a lack of understanding on what Scripture teaches regarding that subject.
quote:
2. If the sinner does not repent, the person sinned against gets a small group of peers to confront. (again, there is no person sinned against, so can't happen)
See above.
quote:
Let me as you this question.....if person A sins against person B, does that also mean that person A sins against person B's spouce? I don't think so. And, the church is the bride of Christ, not Christ's equal. So, I don't buy that a person who is sinning against God is also sinning against every single Christian out there or the church as a whole.
14And concerning you, my brethren, I myself also am convinced that you yourselves are full of (A)goodness, filled with (B)all knowledge and able also to admonish one another. Romans 15:14 This verse says that if we really understand God’s grace then we should not look the other way when or if Christians are continuing in unrepented sin. This teaches the principal...which I am trying to explain, in Matthew.
We all share in the responsibility of dealing with sin. Neither Matthew or Romans tells us to leave this responsibility to the elders; although of course they should do so. God tells us that if we see sin in the church, then we personally must deal with it. “Go, and tell him." It doesn’t say “go, and tell someone else about it." God holds us responsible for what we see. He wants us to personally go deal with it.
Well there are plenty more verses but I am sure this is enough to disagree over with someone if not you! 
BTW, Paul also states that a little leaven (sin) leavens the whole (body) lump.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:40:58 AM
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solarflare
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quote:
There are situations in the Bible that show people or church leaders confronting a person's sin. I don't think that is contraindicated here. I just don't think you (general you) can use the Matthew scripture to back up that choice.
Again, just so you and I are REALLY clear....this one verse does not make doctrine. There is a principal here that is seen across Scripture....in fact, I would go so far as to say that this verse narrows down the broad application so that one cannot escape the fact that each of us is held accountable and has an obligation.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:41:33 AM
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sharonjef2007
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We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Again I say, unrepentant sin agains a person is different then this situation, IMO. If the church learns of the sin (which is not a given in THIS situation), than it does have a responsibility to confront. There are enough scriptures to back up that kind of discipline in the church. I just don't think the Matthew scripture is one of those, in this kind of situation.
We are running circles around each other here. I think we both agree that the church needs to step in if they are aware of the sin. We just disagree on the specific scripture that allows that kind of action ;-)
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:44:54 AM
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sharonjef2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Again, just so you and I are REALLY clear....this one verse does not make doctrine. There is a principal here that is seen across Scripture....in fact, I would go so far as to say that this verse narrows down the broad application so that one cannot escape the fact that each of us is held accountable and has an obligation.
Ok, so are you saying there that I would be held accountable for you sins, for example? Or, just if I don't call you to the carpet on it?
Because if you look at the OP, they HAVE called this couple to the carpet. The couple has not repented. However, the OP is not part of the same church as the couple. I do not see in that case a need for the OP to go to the couple's church to rat them out. Shouldn't that be the churches responsiblity to know their members?
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:49:16 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6723
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
quote:
Don't you think there is a principal here with regards to sin...period? If you don't, I do. I really think you are overlooking a principal regarding sin....if you are a Christian you are a part of the body of Christ and your sin reflects on and hurts all of us. (generic you)
Ok, perhaps I'm too literal a person, and we totally don't have to agree here. I do think the church (if they are even aware of the sin in the first place) should confront them. HOWEVER......please explain to me how the church can fully fulfill the Matthew scripture? It can't, it will cut out two important steps:
1. The person who was sinned against needs to confront the sinner. (there is no person who was sinned against, so this can't happen)
2. If the sinner does not repent, the person sinned against gets a small group of peers to confront. (again, there is no person sinned against, so can't happen)
Let me as you this question.....if person A sins against person B, does that also mean that person A sins against person B's spouce? I don't think so. And, the church is the bride of Christ, not Christ's equal. So, I don't buy that a person who is sinning against God is also sinning against every single Christian out there or the church as a whole.
There are situations in the Bible that show people or church leaders confronting a person's sin. I don't think that is contraindicated here. I just don't think you (general you) can use the Matthew scripture to back up that choice.
As fare as sin being permitted in the Church; Paul in First Corinthians is very specific about putting those out of fellowship who are in sexual sin. That would certainly apply to the situation in this thread.
As far as personal inter-relations with someone who names themselves a Chrsitian but is living in sexual sin (or any sin for that matter), Scripture states;
(1Co 5:11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
This couple should be shunned by the entire Chruch until they repent.
I would encourage you to read 1 Corinthians 5th Chapter for instructions in dealing with sin in the Body of Christ.
Read a little further, and see the Grace of God concerning accepting the wayward broher or sister back into the fold once they have repented.
God is good.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 10:58:16 AM
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sharonjef2007
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Ugh, I don't even thing you all are reading what I'm typing.....so I'm not even going there anymore.
For the record, I think the OP has done what they can in this situation. Other family is condoning and protecting this couple. The OP and her husband are not. They have talked to them and called them to the carpet on the situation. They do not go to the same church as the couple.
It is possible to have a relationship with family that are sinning without condoning the sin, IMO. How can you minister to them if you shun and disown them? You can't.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 11:57:49 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
It is possible to have a relationship with family that are sinning without condoning the sin, IMO. How can you minister to them if you shun and disown them? You can't.
you of course are entitled to your opinion, but Scripture says to shun them, so I will side with Scripture on this one.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
Ok, so are you saying there that I would be held accountable for you sins, for example? Or, just if I don't call you to the carpet on it?
I do not think that one would be "Held accountable for another's sins" if they do not confront them as prescribed in Scripture. But would certainly be quilty of not obeying the Word of God. Scripture plainly says;
(Gal 6:1,2) Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
There are no caveats about "If one feels like it", or "If it will not embarrass you", or anyother excuse; the Word says go to them and try to lead them out of the sin; period.
So if we refuse to go to the brother or sister who is in sin; we are being disobedient to God.
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 10/17/2009 4:21:32 PM >
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 1:34:59 PM
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teacher1982
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Well.....we have a couple in our church who are in their 50s and 60s, have dated for around 12 years, have their own homes, but obviously spend the nights with each other - especially the weekends. She has confided in me that they do, and a person can drive by his house (which is the closest to the church) anytime at night and see her car there. In other words, it is well-known, but ignored. They come faithfully to every service, give in offerings and keep quiet and to their own business. Visiting ministers and other visitors just naturally assume they are married. She wants to get married, but told me that he won't because he has been married twice before, is semi-wealthy for our congregation, and just doesn't want to. (why buy the cow when you can get the milk free?)
I haven't talked to the pastor about this. I feel that it isn't my place or really any of my business. If the pastor and the deacons want to allow this obvious situation to go on for years, I doubt that anything I say would change anything.
On top of that, more than half the couples in our church are divorced and remarried. It's so common now, that if the pastor were to make a stand against it, he would lose half his congregation - probably more because all the kinfolks would leave also.
It is rare to find a church (pastor, deacons and board) who makes a stand against sexual sin and immorality. It's too common and too tolerated. No longer does it appear to the the horrible thing of years past.
God doesn't change and His Word hasn't changed. To me, this is a very distressing situation, but I see nothing being done about it or that anything will be done about it. As a matter of fact, it's becoming very common to see ministers/pastors who have been divorced and remarried and the congregation has no problems with it. Almost all ministers/teachers/preachers/speakers on TV are divorced and remarried. This situation has totally invaded the church. And it's very sad.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/17/2009 4:19:35 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
Well.....we have a couple in our church who are in their 50s and 60s, have dated for around 12 years, have their own homes, but obviously spend the nights with each other - especially the weekends. She has confided in me that they do, and a person can drive by his house (which is the closest to the church) anytime at night and see her car there. In other words, it is well-known, but ignored. They come faithfully to every service, give in offerings and keep quiet and to their own business. Visiting ministers and other visitors just naturally assume they are married. She wants to get married, but told me that he won't because he has been married twice before, is semi-wealthy for our congregation, and just doesn't want to. (why buy the cow when you can get the milk free?)
I haven't talked to the pastor about this. I feel that it isn't my place or really any of my business. If the pastor and the deacons want to allow this obvious situation to go on for years, I doubt that anything I say would change anything.
On top of that, more than half the couples in our church are divorced and remarried. It's so common now, that if the pastor were to make a stand against it, he would lose half his congregation - probably more because all the kinfolks would leave also.
It is rare to find a church (pastor, deacons and board) who makes a stand against sexual sin and immorality. It's too common and too tolerated. No longer does it appear to the the horrible thing of years past.
God doesn't change and His Word hasn't changed. To me, this is a very distressing situation, but I see nothing being done about it or that anything will be done about it. As a matter of fact, it's becoming very common to see ministers/pastors who have been divorced and remarried and the congregation has no problems with it. Almost all ministers/teachers/preachers/speakers on TV are divorced and remarried. This situation has totally invaded the church. And it's very sad.
If the Church is permitting sin to exist within thier membership then the Chruch is in direct violation of the Word of God.
Sad situation.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 11:09:49 AM
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singpeace
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Living together as husband and wife without obeying the law of wedding one another before man and God is a sin.
According to scripture:
Fornication is a sin/abomination. Lying is a sin/abomination. Cheating on taxes is a sin/abomination. A proud heart is a sin/abomination. A dirty look is a sin/abomination.
There is no distinction between these sins; they are all called abominations. ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS IS AN ABOMINATION TO GOD. So, who gets tossed out and who gets to stay?
When I read Romans Chapters 7:13-25 and 8:1-4, I see Paul describing how he hates that he is unable to live totally sinless. The law cannot be perfectly obeyed. He obeys one part of the law only to find himself failing on another part. Paul loves God's law and wants to obey it but the sin is ever present, tempting him. So who will rescue him? Praise God, the payment was made by Jesus so that we are free from the penalty of the sin we do. Jesus took care of past, present, and future sins. Paul is speaking entirely in the present tense, not the past tense.
That is why in Romans 8:1 he says that because of what Jesus did, there is therefore NOW NO MORE CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE THAT BELIEVE.
If I slip and sin; although in my heart, I don't want to, I am not condemned. Being washed in the blood doesn't make us perfect, but forgiven.
If the couple is offending you, I suggest you do what Jesus instructed:
Matthew 18:15-17
Correcting Another Believer
15 “If another believer[d] sins against you,[e] go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. 16 But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. 17 If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won't accept the church’s decision, TREAT THAT PERSON AS A PAGAN OR A CORRUPT TAX COLLECTOR.
How are we to treat pagans and tax collectors (sinners)?
Here is Jesus' example in dealing with tax collector: Matthew 9:9-13
9 As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at his tax collector’s booth. “Follow me and be my disciple,” Jesus said to him. So Matthew got up and followed him.
10 Later, Matthew invited Jesus and his disciples to his home as dinner guests, along with many tax collectors and other disreputable sinners.
13 Then he added, “Now go and learn the meaning of this Scripture: ‘I want you to show mercy, not offer sacrifices.’ For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.”
Be careful how you TREAT someone you have chosen to judge.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 11:24:21 AM
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teacher1982
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It is not MY place to call this couple out and confront their sin. When she told me that they "sleep" together on weekends - mostly at his house - I told her that I felt that was wrong and I couldn't understand how they could do that and then go to church as though they were doing nothing wrong. She hasn't been as friendly toward me since, but I do not feel that I said anything to her that I shouldn't have. To hear that and then act as though I thought nothing of it would have made me give my approval on their sin (in my eyes). I said my peace, but that is as far as I can go being just a lay member of the church. The rest is up to the Pastor, Deacon and Board members. They are not blind.
BTW, I very seldom go there now although it is my home church and I have been a member most of my life. There is too much going on that bothers me and is not taken care of in the Biblical way. When I do go occasionally, it is mainly to visit with the people I love and miss so much.
As I said earlier, if all the sinners were called out, told to stop sinning and so on, the church would be practically empty. They would leave and so would their families. And that is just the sins that we all know about - like double marriages.
Sometimes I just get disgusted with Church in general and wonder if there are any churches anywhere that still preach old time Gospel and living a life according to the teachings of Jesus.
(Guess this is why I am typing this at home on a Sunday morning instead of being in church.)
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 12:17:51 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sharonjef2007
We are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Again I say, unrepentant sin agains a person is different then this situation, IMO. If the church learns of the sin (which is not a given in THIS situation), than it does have a responsibility to confront. There are enough scriptures to back up that kind of discipline in the church. I just don't think the Matthew scripture is one of those, in this kind of situation.
We are running circles around each other here. I think we both agree that the church needs to step in if they are aware of the sin. We just disagree on the specific scripture that allows that kind of action ;-)
No...I'm not running in circles. I have quoted several Scriptures...there are plenty more. It appears you do not think them worthy of comtemplation. Unfortunately many people seem to think that sin is just a human manifestation and God winks at it. Actually, it causes all the suffering in the world AND the church and until people wake up and obey Scripture, things are going to get worse.
There is no such a thing as a 'THIS" situation. There are no exceptions. There are no favorites. Consider David....one would certainly think he had garnered favoritism...most humans around him thought so...yet when he committed adultery and then murder, God displayed His anger to such an extent that David was never the same, his family was divided and his favorite son betrayed him.
Notice please, that the entire thing started with sexual sin. Whoops....just a little fling.........
What bothers me about your posting, is that you have consistently mentionned Matthew...you are wrong about Matthew, but more, you do not acknowledge any other Scriptures that apply to the situation. So, my conclusion is that you have found what you think backs up YOUR opinion rather than allowing Scripture to renew your mind according to the Word. If I am wrong, you will have to explain, keeping in mind you have not made mention or considered anything other than what you started out with even though I have consistently tried to broaden the scope of your focus and bring to your attention that ONE DOES NOT MAKE A DOCTRINE OUT OF ONE VERSE.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 12:24:18 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Sometimes I just get disgusted with Church in general and wonder if there are any churches anywhere that still preach old time Gospel and living a life according to the teachings of Jesus.
The problem I have here is because you do not think it is your place to confront sin. That is one reason churches are the way they are.
Sorry if that sounds harsh...it is the reality.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 12:39:21 PM
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teacher1982
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Solarflare - Exactly what would you suggest that I do as a elderly woman who occasionally attends this church, sits in her pew, worships and prays, and minds her own business? (1) tell the Pastor or Deacons or (2) stand up in church and confront them myself? That would definitely be (1) gossiping or (2) being out of order.
I do believe that the job belongs to the leaders of the church. And as I said earlier, it is obvious and well-known and has been tolerated for at least 12 years. It bothers me when I look at them so I turn my eyes toward Jesus, pray for them and for myself. It's a job to take care of myself and be without sin in my life (as we are all human, although deliberate sin such as fornication seems to be different).
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 12:44:23 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
Solarflare - Exactly what would you suggest that I do as a elderly woman who occasionally attends this church, sits in her pew, worships and prays, and minds her own business? (1) tell the Pastor or Deacons or (2) stand up in church and confront them myself? That would definitely be (1) gossiping or (2) being out of order.
I do believe that the job belongs to the leaders of the church. And as I said earlier, it is obvious and well-known and has been tolerated for at least 12 years. It bothers me when I look at them so I turn my eyes toward Jesus, pray for them and for myself. It's a job to take care of myself and be without sin in my life (as we are all human, although deliberate sin such as fornication seems to be different).
Honestly? I think you should talk to them and back it up with Scripture. What does your age have to do with it?
In short, take God at His word...but don't expect a pretty scene. Sin is not pretty. Oh...but wait...you might actually talk to those whose job you think it is to expose sin....and tell them they are not doing their job.
Wouldn't it be great if the sinners had to turn their faces away rather than those who are 'holy' before God? ie. not living in sin and sinning habitually without repentance........
< Message edited by solarflare -- 10/18/2009 12:50:58 PM >
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 12:49:31 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
And as I said earlier, it is obvious and well-known and has been tolerated for at least 12 years.
Do you really think this couple are going to heaven? Someone needs to talk to them.....they and the entire congregation are fooling themselves if they think God accepts what they are doing.....further, by now, you are all involved...after 12 years.....I can't believe it....
In most workplaces, doing something wrong or against company policy is not tolerated. In most churches, sin is tolerated, condonned and almost encouraged....not dealing with sin is, IMO causing others to sin.
Awful sorry here teacher...but, I would like to respond to this too:
quote:
minds her own business?
Church is not a place to mind one's own business. In fact, we are the Body of Christ...one does not mind their own business in church and if they do, they are not participating which is contrary to Scripture.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 10/18/2009 1:01:39 PM >
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 1:15:22 PM
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teacher1982
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My age has to do with this situation in the following way - I have been saved for ages and have been in church forever seems like. I have seen troubles come and go over and over. I have seen sin tolerated and ignored, and I have seen sin exposed, revealed, challenged and the scriptures followed to a Tee. I have never seen good results. Never. It tears the entire church up.
I often think of the scripture about the wheat and the tares. If these "tares" are ripped up by the roots, they will take many good wheat with them and could possibly destroy a huge crop. I pray for God to give wisdom and knowledge to those in leadership as this is part of their responsibility - not a weak, single, old lady sitting in the congregation trying to enjoy her senior (and remaining) years of her life.
If I felt that the Lord led me to take steps on my own - in the open in a church service, or in privately to the couple - I would do it. But He hasn't. I am sure their first response would be for me to mind my own business or to ask who I thought I was. Their second response would be to name a sin that I may have committed 10, 20 or 30 years ago and quote the scripture "he who is without sin, cast the first stone". This is why Paul writes so much about everything being done in order and what the duties are of a Deacon and Bishop (Pastor).
There is a place and time for everything, and there are people in the church who are called with specific duties and responsibilities. Can you imagine the chaos that would happen in a church if everyone took it upon themselves to call out people who they know are committing sin??
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 2:03:35 PM
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small_creation
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Excellent post, singpeace. Thank you.
j
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/18/2009 2:19:34 PM
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Kateers82
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I did not read this entire thread, so please forgive me if this has already been addressed...
Is it known for sure that the girl and her fiance are having sex outside of marriage? She may have asked for birth control, but maybe her periods are tough? I am not sticking up for her, BUT I am 27 and I have had absolutely terrible periods ever since I was about 12. I went on the pill ONLY to help my cycle so I would not get sick. With that said, I just went off the pill because they were making me feel naseous, so I decided taking Mydol once a month would be just fine ;-) Maybe this is why she wanted them?
Second, is it wrong for an engaged couple to live together if they are not sexually active? Perhaps they are living together to save money and do not actually sleep in the same bed at night. Just a thought. Like I said, I didn't read this entire post so forgive me if I am bringing up something that has already been discussed :-) I hope the young lady and her fiance realize that God's plan for a marriage is sacred. Let's pray that their hearts are open to this :-)
_____________________________
~Trials are not enemies of faith, but are opportunities to prove God's faithfulness~
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/19/2009 12:59:22 AM
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Lea_3
Posts: 295
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline
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I've come to the conclusion that this couple will do whatever they please regardless of whether or not authorities from the church steps in. We can sit here and hope and pray but the truth is noone cares...it's the sign of the times. Only a freak would not live together before marriage or not fornicate.
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/19/2009 9:33:56 AM
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teacher1982
Posts: 190
Joined: 10/11/2009
Status: offline
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Kateers82 - Yes I think it is wrong for a couple to live together even if they were not sleeping in the same bed or having sex because it looks wrong. And the Bible commands us to avoid even "The appearance of evil". It looks like they are sinning whether they are having sex or not. I don't see any way around it.
If they are True Christians and want to live the life that they should, they would avoid ANY appearance of sin. They would care what witness they are giving to others - especially other young people and teenagers.
I don't believe that any male and female who are in love and planning on getting married could live together in the same apartment or house and not sleep together and not have sex. (The only couples that live together and do not have sex are married couples!) That was a half-way joke!
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/19/2009 9:34:03 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 6723
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teacher1982
My age has to do with this situation in the following way - I have been saved for ages and have been in church forever seems like. I have seen troubles come and go over and over. I have seen sin tolerated and ignored, and I have seen sin exposed, revealed, challenged and the scriptures followed to a Tee. I have never seen good results. Never. It tears the entire church up.
if following the Word of God "Tears the entire Church up", then it probably was not a Chuch to begin with.
If the leadership has grounded the Church in the teachings of Scripture; then obedience to those Scriptures will only draw the group closer to Christ. For as Jesus himself said;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
and
(Joh 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
So if a group is calling Jesus Lord, and claiming they love Him; then obedience is a given.
No I will give you that if there is a lot of sin in a congregation that confronting one person's sins will bring fear to the others, and they will rebel at the idea of anyone telling them what to do. But that is alright, if 90% of the congregation refuses to repent; then 90% of the congregation must go.
It is not about keeping everyone satisfied or keeping the numbers high, it is about the truth;
When Jesus did some hard preaching starting in John 6:53, the group that was following Him departed;
(Joh 6:66) From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
So did Jesus worry about those that left, and get fearful about His Ministry not doing the correct thing; No, he said to the diciples;
(Joh 6:67) Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
It is not about "Pacifying" the group it is about the truth and obedience to the Word of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Engaged couple living together - 10/19/2009 9:42:03 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 1521
Joined: 6/16/2008
Status: offline
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What RC said.
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