|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 10/27/2009 8:53:50 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 4622
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Because I expect them to know better!
How pious is that? About as pious as Luke 12:48!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 10/27/2009 10:58:31 AM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 1811
Status: offline
|
quote:
Digrieze
Honestly, I find it's not myself choosing a state of disunity.
Perhaps not but the result of the choice is disunity. Disunity with unbelievers is to be expected. There is no fellowship between light and dark. But when these choices are made in the midst of believers, we are, in effect, choosing to not be one with them. We are saying this thought, this issue, this principle or teaching is too important to stay in unity. Isn't that what we are doing?
I'm not saying this is necessarily wrong. There are times when this is appropriate. But I think we err on the side of disunity. Hence there is so much teaching from Jesus and Paul and the oneness that shows that we are His.
And I'm in agreement with cposey. We need to sit under the teaching of Jesus through the working of the Holy Spirit and listen and learn from Him. He uses human teachers as well. And we can learn much from them. But they are not the final word. He is. The Bereans lived this out. But it is much more than just taking the words and comparing. A human scholar can do that and yet not know Jesus. It is about taking the words, the teachings, and sitting at the feet of Jesus and learning from Him. He will teach us ALL things, if we will be still and know that He is God. He longs to manifest Himself to us if we are willing to sit at His feet.
quote:
deliveredarling
It's more difficult for me to accept those in the body than it is those outside of the body. Why? Because I expect them to know better!
I hear ya, dd! That's why Jesus and Paul hammered on this very topic. Oh, our flesh loves to divide. Our flesh loves to label. Our flesh loves to lord over others.
Yet the Spirit's desire is set against the flesh. So if we walk by the Spirit, we say no to the fleshly desires that seek to put down others and elevate self.
James asks what is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? James 4:1
If we do not begin to recognize our pleasures, the things that ensnare us to sin, creating disunity in the body, we are NOT walking by the Spirit. I'm so thankful that you are willing, DD, to see your self. It's a pretty ugly sight at times, isn't it? But we have a loving Savior who is doing all for us and who will conform us to His image. So all we have to do is agree with Him, confess our sin, and live love to Him, thanking Him for all. Bless ya, dear sister, for your truthfulness. The Lord loves ya and I do too.   LL
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 10/28/2009 4:57:30 PM
|
|
|
agapist
Posts: 652
Joined: 6/13/2009
Status: online
|
This is amazing. Here we are having a thread on to dwell together in unity and one of the posters is telling other posters (brothers and sisters supposedly) that they are--what? wrong, inferior Christians, not really Christians--because they do not have a "doctrinal tradition." "Lone Ranger Christians" are--what? delusional, pagans, agents of Satan, miscreants? How do such comments bolster unity.
Having a "doctrinal tradition" does not necessarily mean you have sound doctrine.
Having a "doctrinal tradition" does not mean one is living how Christ would have us live.
Simply bringing up the fact of having a "doctrinal tradition" as backup for one's views, instead of simply dwelling in the truth of the word and discussing ways of drawing together, is divisive. That is what liveloved was saying. Now we have a thread divided between those of the superior path, "doctrinal tradition," and those branded as not knowing what they are talking about, "Lone Ranger Christians."
Sound doctrine does not come from other men or institutions: it comes from the Holy Spirit.
Uniformity of thought does not mean we are united in Christ.
Because someone chooses not to call themselves by an earthly moniker, such as Baptist, Catholic, or whatever, does not mean that they haven't completely surrendered to Christ and have the eyes to see truth.
Is having a "doctrinal tradition" a guarantee of salvation or of truth? Of course not.
Putting other Christian brothers and sisters down or dismissing their views because their master, Christ, has them on a path of being non-denominational, is divisive.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 10/28/2009 7:30:45 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 1811
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: agapist
This is amazing. Here we are having a thread on to dwell together in unity and one of the posters is telling other posters (brothers and sisters supposedly) that they are--what? wrong, inferior Christians, not really Christians--because they do not have a "doctrinal tradition." "Lone Ranger Christians" are--what? delusional, pagans, agents of Satan, miscreants? How do such comments bolster unity.
Having a "doctrinal tradition" does not necessarily mean you have sound doctrine.
Having a "doctrinal tradition" does not mean one is living how Christ would have us live.
Simply bringing up the fact of having a "doctrinal tradition" as backup for one's views, instead of simply dwelling in the truth of the word and discussing ways of drawing together, is divisive. That is what liveloved was saying. Now we have a thread divided between those of the superior path, "doctrinal tradition," and those branded as not knowing what they are talking about, "Lone Ranger Christians."
Sound doctrine does not come from other men or institutions: it comes from the Holy Spirit.
Uniformity of thought does not mean we are united in Christ.
Because someone chooses not to call themselves by an earthly moniker, such as Baptist, Catholic, or whatever, does not mean that they haven't completely surrendered to Christ and have the eyes to see truth.
Is having a "doctrinal tradition" a guarantee of salvation or of truth? Of course not.
Putting other Christian brothers and sisters down or dismissing their views because their master, Christ, has them on a path of being non-denominational, is divisive.
It's really not surprising to me, agapist. Like the Apostle Paul who was surrounded by disunity, we must just continue to love and speak and teach truth. Those who know the Truth will walk in it. Not always. Not perfectly. That's why love, I Cor 13, love, was taught. We need to learn, always be learning, to live love. And we only do that as we draw close to Him. Some only know Him from afar. Some don't know Him at all. And so we just need to continue to speak and teach and live truth. There are lies all around us. But greater is He Who is in me (and you) than he who is in the world. Bless ya, brother. I've missed seeing you around. LL
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 11/6/2009 2:22:45 AM
|
|
|
agapist
Posts: 652
Joined: 6/13/2009
Status: online
|
For a number of years now, with surprising resistance, I have been saying to the churches I attend that fellowship was at least as vital as doctrine. I had the view that fellowship was not only vital to knowing God more intimately but of gaining the fruits of the spirit. There was not direct resistance to this idea but doctrine always got the nod. Fellowship in my vast experience has always been taken as secondary of tertiary or a given. Direct attention and focus to develop this aspect of faith as vital to our relationship with Christ rarely, in my lenghty experience, gets any more play than potlucks.
We who have voiced our point of view on this thread dealing with unity have winessed this is shut down by the person espousing "doctrinal tradition." I see the Church being crippled by this same insistence.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 11/6/2009 6:20:53 AM
|
|
|
cposey
Posts: 298
Joined: 8/20/2009
Status: offline
|
When I attend church, this is what i typically have seen. People come in have a seat, if they're early they talk to some of their friends. You then go into the progression of the service. Throughout the service I usually only see a couple of gifts of the Holy Spirit in effect. The pastor preaching a sermon and maybe if you have a worship leader leading in songs. What is missing here brothers and sisters? Am I the only one who's heart aches to reach out and help those people in the pews who are struggling? Where is the discipleship for everyone that walks through that door? Where is the reality of life being enlightened by all the gifts of the Holy Spirit? We are like a bunch of robots who just come to church, say "good morning" sing a little, listen to a sermon, give some money, say "have a good day" adn go home. How can we expect to have unity in the body of Christ if we don't even know the names of the people we congregate with. Why does the limitations of a strict service schedule not offend you? Where is the power of the Holy Spirit flowing freely between all that are in church? Why is the best thing we hear about our churches is whatever the format, traditional, modern, contemporary, evangelical, whatever title you've given your'e church? How many can say without it being some emotional reaction, man, there is the power of the Holy Spirit in that place? Can it possibly be that the unity found in the Holy Spirit we seek, we hinder ourselves by our very own ideas of corporate worship?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 11/6/2009 1:11:13 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 1811
Status: offline
|
agapist and cposey,
I could sit and cry because of the comments and questions you have raised. Yes, my heart aches over these questions/concerns.
I continue to look to Jesus. How did the church of His day regard Him? It is no different today. God upclose and personal is just too threatening.
How do we respond? I certainly don't have all the answers. And as a woman, I feel even less able to effect any change within the church. Power and position have taken precedence over people (in the church visible).
I live Christ where I am. Just as Jesus did not find His ministry within the walls of the organized religion of His day, neither do I.
I wake singing thankful praise. I come here hoping to encourage and stimulate others in their love for Jesus. I work in my home and try to be a good help mate to my husband. When out in the world, I try to listen attentively to others and share the love of Christ wherever I go. I pray as the Lord directs me.
And I look for the coming of Jesus. Someday we will have the fellowship we long for here. And until then have it in snatches here and there.
We have to create these times of true fellowship. We have a Wednesday evening Bible study/fellowship group in our home. We invite people for dinner on Sunday and spend the afternoon fellowshipping around Jesus. We sing.
It certainly is not enough. This unprofitable servant does not enough. But He is gracious. And I love Him more and more. Bless you both for your love for Him and desire for others to know Him as well. LL
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 11/6/2009 5:06:06 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1780
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
I'm gonna throw something out here....
Our churches and body are in the state of disunity because we are not unified by the Spirit.
We do in fact treat doctrine and fellowship (which are important, don't get me wrong) as the MOST important thing above allowing the freedom of the Spirit to dwell within our body and churches.
We stifle what is not "traditional". We scoff at all the new stuff.....(which bunches of it should really be criminal...)
We rely on ritualism verse the freedom of the Spirit. I have never been to Europe to see what their churches are like, but I do know in Brazil, a general format is begun, for the sake of order, yet when the HS moves, people get out of the way and allow Him to do what He came to do! It's phenomenal!
We don't do that here much. We are to worried about getting out on time so we can get there before the restaurant fills up and we have to wait! 
Not to mention the churches that "manufacture" a movement of the HS and ruin the image of a true HS movement. 
We focus on our teachings more than we focus on being taught by the Holy Spirit. We give more credence to man than we do the Almighty, Living God.
We have lost out reverence for Him. We have brought Him to a level that we can understand and comprehend. We put Him in a box that keeps Him real to us. Never mind that we can't possible comprehend His wonder!
These are human failings. If we want to see unity, we need to seek the Holy Spirit, not for others, but for ourselves. this kind of change begins by looking in our own mirror.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Dwelling together in unity - 11/9/2009 3:14:37 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 1811
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
That is strange. Though many have presumed those of my community are bound by our observance of the practices found in HaTorah and must be cold and judgemental. Yet from what I see in this thread, our community has all the things that appear to be missing in other communitites. In Torah study, we focus on the character of Adonai and how we interact with Him. We do certain things in the same way every week, but we realize that there is much that is not dictated by the Scriptures and so we grant freedom of expression in an orderly fashion. We are not in a hurry to leave before the restaurants fill up, because we share a meal together while we discuss what we have read and how it applies to our lives. We do have heated discussions at times, but recognize that it is Adonai's Spirit moving through the discussion that sharpens our countenances and not winning the debate. We care nothing for movements, for Adonai's Spirit moves as He wills. So, please do not think I am boasting or evangelizing. Every so often a sojourner passes through and we are happy to entertain them, (even mormon missionaries  ) and we mourn for those outside our community who live in this city, but we are grateful for the community Adonai has given us.
I certainly do not share in the 'cold and judgmental' presumption, Bluethread. I will to not judge in that way and if I do, I pray I am shown so that I repent.
The problem for all of us is the tendency to close the door and keep Christ out. Pride and fear both work on this within and the enemy does the same from without.
That is why relationship, a personal, vital, day in/day out, ongoing relationship with Jesus is the key. It is not about what I believe or defending what I believe.
It is all about Jesus and His life in me. And His life is to be shared. With unbelievers, we share Who we know. With believers we fellowship around the One we know.
But 'the church' has put up many obstacles preventing this fellowship. It is what man does. The church model in the west of a pastor run/led church is probably the biggest barrier to the true life of fellowship around Jesus.
And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer (Acts 2:42). When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation (I Cor 14:26).
Some are given as pastors and teachers, as apostles, prophets and evangelists for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ. They are part of the whole body which is necessary for the proper functioning of a body as a whole.
And when the body functions in this way, it is beautiful. We are ministering to the Lord and to one another as He designed.
_____________________________
Liveloved
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
