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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/18/2009 4:16:46 PM
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ourgreatestSource
Posts: 734
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quote:
It's a thorough shame isn't it that a nation such as ours can have two concurrently running wars that are so messy. I remember reading once years ago that the first signs of a great civilization in a sign of decay was that they made it a habit of failing to decisively win their wars. Deja-vu.
That is my impression also: "messy"... I sure do not come from a place of great understanding and study about wars engagement, tactics etc but the little pieces of understandings and commomsense, I hope.
Anyways...I see it's just messy in different many layers. It was not supposed to be like that at all (I hope)... the "distraction" to start another war in Iraq was huge "mistake" with huge consquences to the USA.
Another thing is the way the military is used and abused by politicians both parties.Military is not a police force. The conditions military are having when returning from wars seems poor and in my mind it is not possible to allow that to happen anymore, because the Vet-Veterans painful experiences.(we still see many struggling in our communities).
Anyways..
There is great difference between WW2 nations liberated and the nations being "liberated" now to begin with. "Everybody" can see that, I hope. 
_____________________________
"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls." Prov. 25:28
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/18/2009 4:32:41 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6726
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From: Oklahoma
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It is really going to get "Messy" if Obama does not send the troops his Generals are asking for.
I Mean Obama campaigned on Afghanistan being the right (The correct) was, so I hope he does it right; for it sure belongs to him.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/18/2009 4:35:00 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6726
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tinydancer2
The conditions military are having when returning from wars seems poor and in my mind it is not possible to allow that to happen anymore, because the Vet-Veterans painful experiences.(we still see many struggling in our communities).
Struggling how?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/18/2009 5:14:12 PM
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ourgreatestSource
Posts: 734
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: tinydancer2
The conditions military are having when returning from wars seems poor and in my mind it is not possible to allow that to happen anymore, because the Vet-Veterans painful experiences.(we still see many struggling in our communities).
Struggling how?
Thanks
RC
quote:
Vet-Veterans painful experiences.(we still see many struggling in our communities).
Ops..typo..not vet"*
Vietnam*-Veterans painful experiences.(we still see many struggling in our communities).
Struggling emotionaly, being homeless, their families hurt also. Lack of good treatments for veterans, even if they are very expensive treatments and needed for long time.
Call me sissy,  I am a woman..no problem but I do think when a nation have as goal to be militaristic it have to take care of their soldiers begining to the end! Period, no negociable in my book to take care of nations sons and daughters who are soldiers.
Politicans are the stars of the world games now, Kings or Presidents are not great generals anymore, going into battles side-by-side fighting among their troops as it used to be. There are a great disconect about a nation being at war and its people engage in that war for real, as a nation at war in the past. Its fruits we can see by US decline in ethics because the wars fought now as we see is 1 engaged by a real cause and the 2nd one pure political self interest.
There is a conflict and nowdays people are not only disengaged but the nation is trully divided by some embracing any war around and others pro no war at all.
Most people, I hope to be pro troops and be pro troops despite mess politicians any party makes. To really care for their brothers and sisters who are in the military and really the ones who fight and go to battle for us. To care for the military is to not allow politicians do as they please and engage in wars "just because" they find fit and there is any other reason at all.
To send military to war is the last recourse there is because they are trained to kill and they do die. War can be romantic sight just in propaganda movies. Of course midia in "civilized nations" do not show the realities of war to not shock their viewrs. I guess it makes sense Europeans somehow to be more pacifists because they have seen more wars in their lands, at least the older generation did and I guess they will deal with wars differently than others westerners who did not.
Anyways..there strugglings that comes from war because devastion it brings outside and inside humans.
_____________________________
"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls." Prov. 25:28
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 3:28:40 AM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 492
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From: The Great Sioux Empire
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Whatsis?? The newspaper in my city stopped publishing all the soldier obits every Sunday in an insert last January, and the colorful characters stopped showing up to protest at the Federal courthouse here, and I'll be dogged if I've seen Cindy Sheheen on TV for more than nine months now. Based on these and other observations, I'd suggest the war ended a few months ago now.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 8:12:55 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1737
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Our Troops morale is so low there is no hope for winning in many cases. If we really wanted to win this war we could ...as it stands now our sons's and daughter's are dying because other's choose political games over safety and security.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 11:16:09 AM
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wing2000
Posts: 1067
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From: ...the beautiful Sonoran Desert
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Excerpt from the declassified version of Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal's assessment of the war in Afghanistan:
The situation in Afghanistan is serious; neither success nor failure can be taken for granted. Although considerable effort and sacrifice have resulted in some progress, many indicators suggest the overall situation is deteriorating. We face not only a resilient and growing insurgency; there is also a crisis of confidence among Afghans -- in both their government and the international community - that undermines our credibility and emboldens the insurgents. Further, a perception that our resolve is uncertain makes Afghans reluctant to align with us against the insurgents.
Success is achievable, but it will not be attained simply by trying harder or "doubling down" on the previous strategy. Additional resources are required, but focusing on force or resource requirements misses the point entirely. The key take away from this assessment is the urgent need for a significant change to our strategy and the way that we think and operate.
Read the assessment here.
...it's a very comprenhisive and informative report. I encourage all who seek a deeper understanding of the actual situation to read the entire report.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 3:51:33 PM
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ourgreatestSource
Posts: 734
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
I am tired of wars.
I am tired of deployments.
I am tired of politicians who appear to be completely clueless about strategy, tactics, warfare, goals, national security, exit strategies, troop morale, and logistics.
Hugs to you Harvie. Praying! 
Thanks for the link, Wing2000.
_____________________________
"Whoever has no rule over his own spirit Is like a city broken down, without walls." Prov. 25:28
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 4:34:05 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
When you can't tell the good guys from the bad guys, you have a problem.... and it's a problem that I'm not sure a troop surge can rectify.
Since the late 1970s Afghanistan has suffered continuous and brutal civil war ... and we're now smack-dab in the middle of it.
It depends on a long-term strategy. That's one reason for some hesitation about authorizing more troops while the current levels are still rising (the last increase will not peak until the end of the year). A counter-insurgency strategy may not require the level of troops being asked for. We also have to understand this President will be in office (like-it-or-not) for seven more years and is probably thinking about the level of citizen support there will be. Even with the recent anniversary of 9/11, the US seems war-weary.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 7:01:17 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
Even with the recent anniversary of 9/11, the US seems war-weary.
It's not just the civilian's. The troops themselves are feeling hopeless. Suicides are at an all time high. The damage done to our troops through this is something we are going to be paying for many times over.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 7:09:14 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 492
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From: The Great Sioux Empire
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I read the news today, and still don't see many signs that this conflict is still going on.
Afghanistan should have been the primary (arguably, the only) focus of the War on Terror. Should the President decide to continue the effort to drain this swamp, which he should, the Republicans ought to stand behind him 100% in the effort as he tries to fix at least one of Bush's blunders.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 7:11:17 PM
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rlj
Posts: 3866
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
Even with the recent anniversary of 9/11, the US seems war-weary.
It's not just the civilian's. The troops themselves are feeling hopeless. Suicides are at an all time high. The damage done to our troops through this is something we are going to be paying for many times over.
When we would discuss in the Iraq thread about the multiple deployments those of us mentioning it were told "this is what they signed up for". :\
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/21/2009 7:35:49 PM
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Nate79
Posts: 249
Joined: 8/26/2007
From: Midwest USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
We also have to understand this President will be in office (like-it-or-not) for seven more years and is probably thinking about the level of citizen support there will be.
We've changed presidential terms to 8 years? Go ahead and remove the probably, Obama has his finger in the wind on this instead of listening to the military men whose job it is to advise him. If the counter-insurgency did not require the level of troops being asked for, it would not have been recommended by military advisers.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/22/2009 5:04:23 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1737
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quote:
When we would discuss in the Iraq thread about the multiple deployments those of us mentioning it were told "this is what they signed up for". :\
_____________________________
Only a non-Military person would say something like that. From the outside looking in I am sure things appear differently so I can understand their ignorance.
IF a family member of their's was in the midst of one of the many back to back deployments and carrying the scars of such deployments I am sure their tune would change.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/22/2009 10:46:53 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3754
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Nate79
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
We also have to understand this President will be in office (like-it-or-not) for seven more years and is probably thinking about the level of citizen support there will be.
We've changed presidential terms to 8 years? Go ahead and remove the probably, Obama has his finger in the wind on this instead of listening to the military men whose job it is to advise him. If the counter-insurgency did not require the level of troops being asked for, it would not have been recommended by military advisers.
The Great One must be aware that the second term is his to lose as the GOP shows little sign of mounting an effective opponent.
If he goes along with the current request, he gets grief from the left. If he changes strategy to go with existing troop levels (including the last 21,000 he authorized that are not yet fully deployed), then he gets grief from the right. If either strategy fails, then both sides pile on together.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/22/2009 12:21:30 PM
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huangshan
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8221265.stm
"The Iraq war was different from this war," a US marine in Afghanistan's Helmand province told a BBC reporter recently.
"That was definitely a war on terrorism. Here I don't know. No-one even mentions 9/11 any more. That's why I went to Iraq."
I know the day is still young, but this may be the dumbest thing I see today.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/24/2009 9:46:06 PM
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Nate79
Posts: 249
Joined: 8/26/2007
From: Midwest USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Nate79
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
We also have to understand this President will be in office (like-it-or-not) for seven more years and is probably thinking about the level of citizen support there will be.
We've changed presidential terms to 8 years? Go ahead and remove the probably, Obama has his finger in the wind on this instead of listening to the military men whose job it is to advise him. If the counter-insurgency did not require the level of troops being asked for, it would not have been recommended by military advisers.
The Great One must be aware that the second term is his to lose as the GOP shows little sign of mounting an effective opponent.
If he goes along with the current request, he gets grief from the left. If he changes strategy to go with existing troop levels (including the last 21,000 he authorized that are not yet fully deployed), then he gets grief from the right. If either strategy fails, then both sides pile on together.
I'm hoping he has the sense to make the right decision for the sake of our troops, who he gets grief from should not factor in if he has any spine.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/24/2009 10:17:06 PM
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cornergas
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/28/2009
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Violence begets violence!
Vengeance is mine saith God!
Maybe we should remind ourselves we are Christian and start acting like it instead of taking the hard approach of trying to kill everybody and run rough shod over other people. This is not a good example to show other countries how Christians act. The President of Iran speaks to the United Nations and on numerous occasions mentions God, Allah, Jesus, Mohammad, Abraham, Moses in a reverend way, and is not afraid or ashamed to state his religious beliefs..Do our leaders do that? Do they state their Christian beliefs? Supposed to be Christian nations founded under God, so why not have a prayer at the UN as a Christian???? No of course not, our leaders are afraid they may offend someone and lose votes, or whatever..
Know the truth and it will set you free
Remember the Sabbath to keep it Holy
God bless us all.
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RE: War in Afghanistan - 9/26/2009 4:46:29 PM
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Nate79
Posts: 249
Joined: 8/26/2007
From: Midwest USA
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We bring justice to murdering terrorists imo, but we all have a right to our opinion I guess.
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