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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/22/2009 6:06:17 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 2309
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
If you're still interested in buying me a birthday present, I promise in return to read it and review it publicly. I can't do so here, because it looks like the book focuses on an area of human endeavor that I am forbidden from discussing in this forum. But I will be sure that I private message you a link to my journal/blog.
I've read and reviewed the book. As a brief comment that I can put here, I can say that Flew has taken the step to deism. Deism is unassailable as a position, but he did not provide me with any convincing reason to follow him in that step.
What's the index card version of his argument?
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/22/2009 6:22:09 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
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Menendez7,
You seem to have a good plan laid out for which books to give to your colleague. But if I may suggest one more book to add to the string of 3 you have already talked of....."More Than A Carpenter" by Josh McDowell.
It may bode well last in the order you have chosen to put the other 3 into.
McDowell was an atheist also. So the progression you are thinking of with the books you have mentioned may benefit with this one added to the end.
Just a suggestion. May God bless you and guide you in your decision.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
http://followtheleader-mat1624.blogspot.com/
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/22/2009 7:17:17 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 243
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huangshan
What's the index card version of his argument?
There are some questions to which we don't know the answer.
The name of the correct answer is "God".
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/22/2009 7:18:54 PM
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essentialsaltes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Deism is unassailable as a position, but he did not provide me with any convincing reason to follow him in that step. Of course not - human reason will always be inadequate to convince sinful man of God's existence - Romans 1:18-19.
Unfortunately, that and my senses is all I've got.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/22/2009 9:36:27 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Unfortunately, that and my senses is all I've got. Wrong again, es, but quoting more Scripture will do no good. Have a nice evening and consider Titus 2:11 some day.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/23/2009 6:24:34 AM
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Redjasper
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Does 'convincing' work at all? This word has come up a couple of times and made me think.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/23/2009 8:13:30 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Does 'convincing' work at all? It all depends on Who is doing the "convincing" - John 16:8-11.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/28/2009 12:44:33 PM
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divine_design_21
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Lead by example!!!
Most atheists have had a good dose of religion and to them, it stinks.
Be a good example of what a true Christian believer is supposed to be. Be kind and loving to him always.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 9/29/2009 3:47:38 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
I gotta say, I don't think most people in the vein of hard-core atheism are likely to just flip. Personally, I'd say most "hard-core atheists" are either psychotic or lying... 
I have to agree.
I've met very few honest atheists, truly prepared to look at the facts and discuss reasonably. Those that do end up switching to agnosticism and eventually become either full fledged Christians or at least Deist.
The majority the others I've met are dishonest and show it by their disinterest in facts and logic - when cornered they quickly find any means of escape possible.
The honest atheist is as rare as dinosaur dung.
Not one of them can find a single piece of valid evidence that supports the "no god" stance.
------------------------
I would however suggest some ex-atheist C.S. Lewis' books; specifically, "The Abolition of Man" (or its more laymen's readable Mere Christianity), "God in the Dock", "The Problem of Pain".
I would also suggest he read Alvin Plantinga.
There is also How to be an Intellectually Fulfilled Atheist (Or Not) by William Dembski (2 Ph.D's) and Dr. Jonathan Wells - touches quite a bit on evolution as well.
Perhaps the best book for someone who thinks they are being very smart by being atheists is Dr. David Berlinski's (the atheists worst nightmare) "The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions" Berlinski is an agnostic Jew who has an amazing sense of wit and wry humor. He is a true 1st class intellect (contrary to Dawkins et al.)
quote:
"Berlinski's book is everything desirable: it is idiomatic, profound, brilliantly polemical, amusing, and of course vastly learned. I congratulate him." --William F. Buckley Jr.
Another very interesting book is Stephen Unwin's "The Probability of God: A Simple Calculation That Proves the Ultimate Truth"
http://www.stephenunwin.com/
Almost entirely math based, and from a high level, first rate scientist - Ph.D in theoretical physics.
I would really avoid giving him the usual crop of popular Christian books on this.
Of course if he knows anything about discreet mathematics you could point him to Kurt Godel.
_____________________________
"The success of Darwinism was accompanied by a decline in scientific integrity. ...To establish the continuity required by the theory, historical arguments are invoked even though historical evidence is lacking." -W. R. Thompson, PhD
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 10/27/2009 2:55:23 AM
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Ross.Lang
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If you're a physician, give him Francis Collins "The Language of God." The other books are likely to strike an atheist, and particularly an intellectual atheist, as pablum or indecipherable dogma. Is TLoG strictly orthodox? No. Is it a wonderfully compelling story of a scientist who was still able to come to Christian faith? Yes. It's a wonderful book, dealing with issues from Creation to theodicy. Plus, as a doctor, Francis Collins NIH appointment has got to lend him credibility.
-Ross
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 10/27/2009 10:01:03 PM
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carebearstare
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not that i've got it all figured out in life yet...
but i'll second 'more than a carpenter' a good place to start was this guy's discussion of what jesus really was if he was claiming to be God himself all over the place but really wasn't (since 'Jesus was just a guy but a really groovy guy and a great teacher and to be respected' is a very common and comfortable view)
i'll also second CS Lewis books. the screwtape letters does some revealing of the sinful motives behind the way we act sometimes, which we can gloss over with rationalizations. 'Miracles' was a good book just asking for consideration of the possibility that maybe some things are beyond us and that miracles could occur. I remember it getting a bit deep in philosophy for my 'let's just do science facts' brain, but it was good. 'The great divorce' is very short and is a very good book that i've read twice. A lot of people need to have some help in considering the idea of heaven and hell, why people are planted in one place or the other seemingly by an irrevocable decree that they have no hope of changing, and Lewis is good at getting thoughts moving about this while showing that the existence of these situations does not diminish God's goodness. I think he is good at getting to the heart of the questions and fears we need to address vs doing a lot of high academic nitpicking. He's got other books too (i know mere christiantity is popular) that i want to read but i haven't got yet. I'd probably endorse any of his books even if i hadnt read them :)
probably helps if you know what the guy's biggest obstacles to even considering christianity are (my neighbor is 'good' but he's going to hell?? a guy was raised from the DEAD?? a flood covered the entire earth in 40 days to the top of the tallest mountain??).
Just my 2cents, but i'd try to avoid books that have titles like 'deconstructing atheism' or 'proving God with facts'... titles like the first sound a lot like 'explaining the painfully obvious to idiot atheists' to those receiving them and can produce an immediate visceral rejection based on 'you judging me, like you're all that, i dont' need your pity, etc'... titles like the second can be good for some, definitely, but probably get into super philosophic stuff, and scientific philosophies as well, and i just think can turn into the pickapart game for author and reader too quickly...
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 11/3/2009 10:14:25 AM
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KaptZ
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Here's a book he might find interesting.
The Question of God, C. S. Lewis and Sigmund Freud Debate God, Love, Sex and the Meaning of Life, by Dr Armand Nicholi Jr
It's a hypothetical debate using letters and writings of both men. It probably won't change his mind, but it might help him see both sides with more clarity.
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 11/6/2009 11:37:55 PM
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lemon_sorbet
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You may find a book that is interesting, but it will probably be difficult to find a book that will sway your friend's opinion. Christian books are written for Christians, even books that are intended to be written for skeptics. The same books that bolstered my faith as a Christian also assisted in the dissolution of my faith. It's all in perspective.
_____________________________
Q. Why are we violent but not illiterate? A. Because we are taught to read." -David Allan
I'm an ex-christian! :D
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 11/7/2009 9:49:41 AM
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GroupW
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Divinedesign and essentialsaltes both are providing good insights here. In the end it's faith and between the individual and god. No one and no book will change someone's mind unless he or she has already decided to change it or that it needs to be changed.
Forget the book and just be a good friend.
Educate yourself first on how an athirst thinks about faith. Maybe then you can be helpful.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: A book for an atheist? - 11/7/2009 10:06:20 PM
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cberman
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I would point him or her toward Kierkegaard, myself.
Or anything by CS Lewis.
Don't take aim at him to convert him/her. Converse with him/her.
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