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Wicca - 7/30/2009 12:28:32 PM
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nealmorsefan
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From: Boise
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Couldn't figure where to ask this question, so I thought I'd put it here and the moderators could throw it wherever they felt is more appropriate. Anyway...
So, it's my understanding that Wiccans are not the same as witches and warlocks, though closely similar. Anyone have any insight into these people? I find that many people on these forums treat wiccans and witches as equivalent, but I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
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RE: Wicca - 7/30/2009 12:34:54 PM
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DanJames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nealmorsefan
Couldn't figure where to ask this question, so I thought I'd put it here and the moderators could throw it wherever they felt is more appropriate. Anyway...
So, it's my understanding that Wiccans are not the same as witches and warlocks, though closely similar. Anyone have any insight into these people? I find that many people on these forums treat wiccans and witches as equivalent, but I'm not sure that's entirely correct.
They are etymologically the same thing, though in modern context they may be different. I don't think that any Wiccan would have any problem being referred to as a "witch". I would hesitate that the use of the term has remained constant throughout history.
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RE: Wicca - 7/30/2009 2:21:29 PM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
They are etymologically...
LOL, now that's my new word of the day!
quote:
the same thing, though in modern context they may be different.
Actually, I don't think it's necessarily one and the same. While Wiccans see themselves as the spiritual descendants of pre-Christian goddess-worshiping religions, usually pointing to a specific tradition (Celtic, etc.), I don't think there is for most of them some unbroken line stretching back to pre-Christian times. And most of them have picked, chosen, adapted based on what they like.
quote:
I don't think that any Wiccan would have any problem being referred to as a "witch".
Well, as I pointed out in the HP Blah, Blah thread, many of them don't like being associated with the stereotypes the word "witch" brings up, and don't feel that it brings to mind for most people an accurate respresentation of their beliefs.
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RE: Wicca - 7/30/2009 4:19:20 PM
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DanJames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Well, as I pointed out in the HP Blah, Blah thread, many of them don't like being associated with the stereotypes the word "witch" brings up, and don't feel that it brings to mind for most people an accurate respresentation of their beliefs.
I think that Wicca is, among all beliefs, the most stereotype-free system in existence. One might say that no two Wiccans are alike. I haven't studied it very extensively, however, so I'll just leave it at that.
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RE: Wicca - 8/1/2009 2:17:18 AM
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nealmorsefan
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From: Boise
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Just read an article that referred to Wicca as "the religion of witchcraft". Do you guys think that is accurate? That would imply that Wicca is witchcraft in a highly-organized, political incarnation. If that's the case, wouldn't Wiccans be more dangerous than any run-of-the-mill pagan or witch ever was?
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RE: Wicca - 8/1/2009 5:27:53 AM
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schtumpy
Posts: 896
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nealmorsefan
Just read an article that referred to Wicca as "the religion of witchcraft". Do you guys think that is accurate? That would imply that Wicca is witchcraft in a highly-organized, political incarnation. If that's the case, wouldn't Wiccans be more dangerous than any run-of-the-mill pagan or witch ever was?
Indeed.
They're not allowed to be tried and burned anymore.....
_____________________________
I deplore what you say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
- attributed to Voltaire
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RE: Wicca - 8/1/2009 6:40:02 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1582
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nealmorsefan
Just read an article that referred to Wicca as "the religion of witchcraft". Do you guys think that is accurate? That would imply that Wicca is witchcraft in a highly-organized, political incarnation. If that's the case, wouldn't Wiccans be more dangerous than any run-of-the-mill pagan or witch ever was?
LOL, Wicca is an extremely individualistic, un-institutionalizeded religion, so I have to wonder how accurate your source was on other aspects of their article I'm not saying that Wiccans and other neoPagans not network, because they do, but their networking is much more informal than Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.
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RE: Wicca - 8/1/2009 7:11:58 PM
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stellaluna
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Yes, highly unorganized and many solitary practitioners--leading to a wiiiiiiide range of practices and beliefs. I believe to call yourself Wiccan obligates you to follow the Wiccan Rede (An it harm none, do as ye will), but that still leaves a wide berth for doing what you want. (Not as much, though, if you follow the threefold rule.)
Among those I've personally known, the word "warlock" isn't liked (the men preferring to be known as male witches). Some pagans I've known eschew Wicca all together. There are also those that follow Dianic religion that may or may not refer to themselves as Wiccan.
Basically, it's just all a bunch of fine lines and hair-splitting among pagan unbelief. 
_____________________________
I do it for the joy it brings, because I'm a joyful girl, because the world owes me nothing, and we owe each other the world.
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RE: Wicca - 8/2/2009 10:54:59 PM
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JHerr
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Having had many friends who were wiccan, and I myself got into it a little in high school...
Witches can be Wiccans, and Wiccans can be witches. To be Wiccan does not mean you are a witch, and vice versa. There are as many different rings of wiccans as there are denominations of Christians. They have basic fundamental beliefs, but beyond that you can decide to believe what you wish.
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My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me. If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak of my own. John 7:16-17
http://vaporzone.blogspot.com/
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RE: Wicca - 8/28/2009 10:09:47 AM
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Gloryandgrace
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The one very excellent thing about the gospel of Christ and the scriptures is that it plants the wiccans in the same camp as every other false religion, it fastens anathema upon every heart that practices it. The law of God has gone out against it, the prophets are arisen to resist it, the apostles denounce such practice...
Every wiccan just like every other ungodly person have been relegated to judgment. But....the good news is....Jesus Christ is come to save sinners
even sinners who practice wicca.
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Wicca - 9/20/2009 2:42:59 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gloryandgrace
. . . But....the good news is....Jesus Christ is come to save sinners
even sinners who practice wicca.
John
And He's done it!
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While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Wicca - 9/29/2009 7:16:25 PM
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divine_design_21
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Meh.
Before I was born again I practiced Wicca. It's just a fancy schmancy word for witchcraft. Don't let anyone tell you different.
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RE: Wicca - 9/29/2009 7:55:23 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2241
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quote:
ORIGINAL: schtumpy
quote:
ORIGINAL: nealmorsefan
Just read an article that referred to Wicca as "the religion of witchcraft". Do you guys think that is accurate? That would imply that Wicca is witchcraft in a highly-organized, political incarnation. If that's the case, wouldn't Wiccans be more dangerous than any run-of-the-mill pagan or witch ever was?
Indeed.
They're not allowed to be tried and burned anymore.....
Says who?
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.
41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.
quote:
They're not allowed to be tried and burned anymore.....
You are correct... according to verse 41-42
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Wicca - 10/2/2009 10:39:51 PM
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Chris0121
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My grandmother was raised in the hills of West Virginia. She taught me most of what I know about witches because it runs in our family. There are a number of close friends of that side of the family who are also witches. Here’s my understanding based on what I’ve personally seen and been told by them.
Many don’t realize that there are several types of witches, but only one is a true “witch”.
For example, you have people who are just eccentric and claim to be a witch, but are actually, well, nothing but searching souls trying to carve out their spiritual niche.
You also have what most today might call a “wiccan”. These are relatively harmless folk who frequent occult stores, buy occult books, practice learned and read occult practices, wear the crystals, often dress “earthy”, and honestly - they are relatively harmless. These folks are searching and just need Jesus. They call themselves witches and want to be seen as witches, but real witches often call them “dabblers”.
And lastly there are true “witches”. These individuals have it in their blood. It’s a family trait (or curse) that’s passed down through their generations. Often in childhood they begin to show signs that they are indeed “witches”. For example, when my grandmother was a young child she saw spirits and they often told her things that no one could know. She’d blurt it out or share it and embarrass people or shock people. Sometimes she’d play with her dolls (each representing a member of the family) and play out an event with the dolls, days before it happened in real life. She would also talk to trees and animals. She also regularly spoke to the dead. These children are often spotted by the older adults with the “gift” or who know of the gift. They refer to this as having the “anointing”. Much of their lingo sounds Christian on the surface but their spiritual power isn’t generated from Christ. They often engage in “folk magic”. For example my grandmother would cut a tomato and sit it on the kitchen window sill to ward off bad luck. Often these “folk magic” customs are personalized or localized. This type of witch can be of any “religion” but their power doesn’t originate from that religion. Many embrace wicca today, but most are “spiritualists”. These individuals find it natural to read the leaves on trees to issue proclamations regarding the future or the current status of people from vast distances. They may ask you to be still and quiet while they listen to the trees or the wind. There isn’t a “science” behind their “magic”. It’s not something you can learn from a book from the occult section of the book store. It’s also not something they “practice”, it’s more just “what they are”. Their magic is powerful, more powerful than that learned by wiccans from a book. In fact this kind of witch can be completely illiterate yet still powerful. These are the ones who have perfected the “evil eye” and other such things. Their witchcraft is based more in the deepest feelings of their soul and they don’t “dabble” with the power, they wield it. They interpret dreams, without needing the aid of any study or reference materials like “dream meaning encyclopedias”. These are the real deal. They are also far knowledgeable about the spirit world seeing that they have lived interacting with it naturally all their lives. Often they are more knowledgeable than “book worm Christians” who know only commentary or what their pastor tells them. In more recent times they’ve often billed themselves as “psychics”…but it is actually witchcraft. These often don’t “choose” to be witches, again, it’s just “what they are”. Only the power of God can set them free. And even after they are free, the trees whisper, and “impressions” from the spirit realm beckon. However, once converted, they make very powerful and dynamic Christians because of their extensive familiarity with the spirit world. Often fellow Christians who are just “book worm Christians” will never understand them or their understandings because what they know is learned from experience not the writings or surmising of theologians or commentators.
That’s my understanding based on my personal experience.
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RE: Wicca - 10/10/2009 1:46:08 AM
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fallenstar
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quote:
They're not allowed to be tried and burned anymore.....
You are correct... according to verse 41-42
are you simply making a statement? Or are you saying that if witches were'nt protected anymore that they would be burned, even in the industrialised world?
As for info on Wicca, there is a book out called "What's the Deal With Wicca" by Steve Russo. He addresses it from a Christian point of view and provides accurate information.
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RE: Wicca - 10/10/2009 11:48:22 AM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
quote:
quote:
They're not allowed to be tried and burned anymore.....
You are correct... according to verse 41-42
Are you simply making a statement? Or are you saying that if witches weren’t protected anymore that they would be burned, even in the industrialized world?
As for info on Wicca, there is a book out called "What's the Deal With Wicca" by Steve Russo. He addresses it from a Christian point of view and provides accurate information.
quote:
are you saying that if witches weren’t protected anymore that they would be burned, even in the industrialized world?
No not at all.. I was just reiterating prophecy
When witches and such were burned in those days of stupidity, those who perpetrated those acts upon them obliviously were expressing the prophetic word by examples... but the problem is they did not have a clear understanding of the scriptures..
When the Lord comes again... it is not us who are going to judge the world... it is HIM.
41 The Son of Man will... send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,
.....There is nothing in that verse there gives authority for any Christian to justify burning someone to death,
42 and ...will (The Son of Man will) = cast them into the furnace of fire.
There will be... wailing and gnashing of teeth.
God is quite capable of allowing these things in its own time...and does not need our help by perverting the scriptures...
Our job is to do the work of the one whom God sent, so no one ends up on the wrong side of that judgment, and if they have... then to assist HIM into pulling them out.
Therefore.... when these are cast into the furnace of fire, then we do our job ==43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun... in the kingdom of their Father.
quote:
He addresses it from a Christian point of view and provides accurate information
Thanks for the info ... personally I generally tend to stay away from all kinds of books.... but it there a website or a link?
Or will you offer some of those views ... from the book, so we can debate them?
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 10/10/2009 11:54:43 AM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Wicca - 11/4/2009 6:29:53 PM
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cachingweds
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I can only speak from personal experience here, but I have a large number fo friends who are wiccans and/or pagans.
The ones who identify themselves as Wiccans have one basic tenet: And it harm none, do what thou wilt. One Wiccan lady in Iowa explained to me that the most important part of this tenet is the part about harming none. This is taken to mean that one must do no harm to one's self, to other people, and no harm to the world arond one. Some that I have known take the No Harm clause a step further, and get involved in charities, human rights groups, and environmental causes.
Practice of Wicca, from what I have seen, tends to be highly individualistic, and often no two Wiccans will do things the same way. Gatherings of Wiccans are often difficult to organize, and most practitioners are soliltary or take part in very small groups.
Wicca is mostly Goddess-based, though some adherents believe in a Lord and a Lady. There is a strong focus on nature, and on the feminine trinity of Maiden, Mother, and Crone.
It strikes me that the spells used in Wicca serve a somewhat similar purpose to Christian prayer. They help the caster to clear his/her mind, focus on a particular problem or situation, and to place it in the hands of their deity. They also use such spells to seek wisdom and peace.
It also startles me that all of the Wiccans and Pagans I know are former Christians. They are people who have seen the church, at best, fail to meet their needs, and at worst have suffered abuse at the hands of people who called themselves followers of Christ. I have known Wiccans and pagans who as children were beaten by Christian parents or guardians, people who were cast out by their parents because they played RPGS, and people who were literally thrown out of churches by big, burly parishoners because they asked questions about scripture. Many of these people have told me that they have no problem at all with the God of the Bible, but they simply cannot associate themselves with Christianity because of the way they were treated.
As a Christian, I am deeply hurt when I hear tales like these. I have known Wiccan and pagan people who are highly intelligent, creative, and insightful, and the church seems to have neglected them. Like anyone living under the Great Commission, I have no desire to see friends of mine excluded from the Kingdom, but the people of the Kingdom seem to have no idea of how to reach out to them. I believe our witness needs to be rethought. These folks do no respond well to the "you're going to burn in Hell" attitude. They need to feel welcomed and loved, and treated as individuals rather than members of a group. The best way I have found to do this is just plain hospitality. I met many of them thorough hobbies like living history groups, gaming, and crafts. I have made my dining room table a place for these hobbies to be carried out, and there is room for everybody there regardless of religous background. I also pray for my Wiccan and Pagan friends frequently, for everything from daily needs to eternal salvation.
Okay, long winded babbling is over. Time for me to go get dinner. 
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RE: Wicca - 11/5/2009 8:38:27 AM
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stateofgrace
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Good post, cachingweds. I also know some pagans and wiccans who are former Christians. One tells his kids that he's "half pagan and half Christian" (as if that's possible). In most of the cases I know of, a break with the institutional church was a big factor in their movement towards paganism, and many of them have major chips on their shoulders about the church. They don't differentiate between following Jesus, and the institution of the church.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Wicca - 11/5/2009 7:32:24 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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RE Wicca
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Good post, cachingweds. I also know some pagans and wiccans who are former Christians. One tells his kids that he's "half pagan and half Christian" (as if that's possible). In most of the cases I know of, a break with the institutional church was a big factor in their movement towards paganism, and many of them have major chips on their shoulders about the church. They don't differentiate between following Jesus, and the institution of the church.
Greetings
quote:
I also know some pagans and wiccans who are former Christians.
They don't differentiate between following Jesus, and the institution of the church.
That’s almost like what Moses wrote to us in Ex 33
18 And he said, "Please, show me Your glory." 19 Then He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." 20 But He said, (KEY)"You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live."
Generally those who cannot differentiate between following Jesus,
Especially those who are former Christians and now practicing wiccans =Heb 6:5 - Show Context
These perhaps.... have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
So they use that power to their own demise
As Paul mentioned in Heb 66
If they fall away, (the Paul makes the comparisons) =8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Those who cannot differentiate the institution of the church.
Is what Moses was speaking of 20 But He said, (KEY)"You cannot see My face; (= the many mansions John 14:2) for no man shall see Me, and live."
So what is written in Heb 6 is like a broader definition of that which was inspired from Exodus 33:20
Because
John 6:46 - Show Context
Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God;
(KEY)= He(Jesus) has seen the Father.
And is why we put out trust in Jesus, because He has seen the Father... “and lived.”
Therefore those who have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
If they fall away...
They will see God... but ... They will see the wrong side...=HIS face; ... Heb 10:31
=(because without Christ who has ...“seen the Father”... and lived) = ..."no man" ... shall see God, and live." = Except ....through “Christ Jesus” Heb 6:19-20
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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