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ORIGINAL: shakezula

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

Funny how a conspiracy is tossed because it's a conspiracy.............LOL

conspiracies almost never live up to the fanfare given to them, if they exist at all.

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Then she asked how many believe there was a conspiracy to assassinate him and most of the people raised their hands. So conspiracies do exist and this one was pretty huge to have been so successful.

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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Then she asked how many believe there was a conspiracy to assassinate him and most of the people raised their hands. So conspiracies do exist and this one was pretty huge to have been so successful.

Except that it wasn't.

There are reams of documentary evidence that debunk the JFK assassination theories, that prove that we landed on the moon, etc. etc. - just like there are high resolution photos on the web that prove that Obama's birth certificate is legitimate.

The fact that people believe in conspiracies doesn't make them true.

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No one has the courage to make him turn over his birth certificate.

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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No one has the courage to make him turn over his birth certificate.

That's where you're wrong.

As the links earlier in this article clearly demonstrate, he has turned over his legal birth certificate to a non-partisan third party to review and photograph it - it didn't take courage, all they had to do was ask.

Beyond that there are two problems: First of all, the courts have found that none of the wackos who have brought cases against him have either the evidence or the standing to even raise this issue. For example:

Berg v. Obama: "U.S. District Judge R. Barclay Surrick dismissed the complaint in October 2008, finding that Berg lacked standing to bring the case and that his attempts to gain standing to pursue his claim were "frivolous and not worthy of discussion."

Hollister v. Soetoro: The presiding judge, James Robertson, said the case was a waste of the court's time, calling Berg and another lawyer "agents provocateurs" and their local counsel, John Hemenway, "a foot soldier in their crusade."

The second problem is that it doesn't really matter - no matter what he does you'll never believe it. The fact that independent third parties have verified that the birth certificate is legitimate (and have debunked the phony claims about it) doesn't matter to conspiracy theorists because they'll never believe it. The Secretary of State of Hawaii verified that it was authentic, Fact Check verified it was authentic, the U.S. State Department did too, but none of that matters because, as Goldmember said "There is no pleasing you".

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Go ahead, believe Arlen Specter's ridiculous theory of how it happened. You and the rest of the 15% of Americans.

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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Go ahead, believe Arlen Specter's ridiculous theory of how it happened. You and the rest of the 15% of Americans.

I'm happy to be part of the 15% of Americans who don't believe in ridiculous myths and conspiracies (and who don't rely on Oprah for my information). I've read several scholarly analyses of the Kennedy assassination (along with the 9/11 report and the transcripts of the Apollo program) and, in addition to believing the forensic evidence, don't buy the argument that thousands of FBI agents, local police and forensic investigators are so dense that they can be duped into believing some phony conspiracy.

What conspiracy theorists so often forget is the example of Watergate. 5 anonymous thugs break into an office in a Washington office building at the behest of people working for a sitting president and what happens? The White House, police, CIA and FBI covered it up and everyone took the secret to their grave? Not even close. The police and press investigated, the people involved went to jail and the President resigned over something that doesn't even hold a candle to the accusations around 9/11, the Kennedy assassination or the "Birther" claims about Obama.

I would love for any conspiracy theorist, to name one large scale conspiracy, that was successfully covered up for any period of time. I believe that people are broken and, as such, are almost pathologically incapable of keeping a meaningful secret over a long period of time, it just doesn't happen - there is always someone involved who is willing to talk for money, for fame, or to clear their conscience. Sadly, too many people spend their lives searching for secrets that just aren't there.

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If you've never seen ANYTHING wrong with 9/11 then I think you just don't want to question your government. It sounds as if you don't question anything the government or news media says. If you had lived in 29 or 30A.D. would you have believed that Jesus was the Messiah or just another prophet causing trouble in Israel? Would you have believed He really healed the sick and raised the dead or would you have said he had a demon?

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Or which judge would take the plunge and risk his job or his reputation to stand alone and give these lawsuits a chance?

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Different states have different state statutes on the matter
But the Constitution is clear, and the DNC ignored it
More interesting however, is the news I got back from a document and handwriting expert, a graphologist, which asserted the following in a detailed analysis of both documents.


In short, the answer to Bob Unruh’s question at WND seems to be yes, Nancy Pelosi knew that she was signing a false statement on behalf of Obama. But she also knew that this false statement of eligibility would only be filed in Hawaii, which has a very specific state statute that requires that each party certify the constitutional eligibility of their candidates, using specific text.

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While the RNC filed the same proper certifications in all states with 100% consistency, the DNC filed a variety of improper documents which essentially certified nothing. They certainly failed to certify that Barack Hussein Obama met all legal requirements for the office.

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BORN IN THE USA?
Shocker! Judge orders trial on eligibility issue
Arguments planned Jan. 11 for major Obama challenge

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BORN IN THE USA?
Obama: Where have all his records gone?
Footprints of president's own history either vanish or remain covered up

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The expedited trial has been set for Jan. 26, 2010, just 4 1/2 months from now!

I and many other concerned veterans and citizens attended the hearing today in Federal Court in Santa Ana in the lawsuit against Barack Obama to determine his eligibility to be President and Commander in Chief. About 150 people showed up, almost all in support of the lawsuit to demand that Obama release his birth certificate and other records that he has hidden from the American people..

Judge David Carter refused to hear Obama's request for dismissal today, instead setting a hearing date for Oct. 5, since Obama's attorneys had just filed the motion on Friday. He indicated there was almost no chance that this case would be dismissed. Obama is arguing this lawsuit was filed in the wrong court if you can believe that. I guess Obama would prefer a "kangaroo court" instead of a Federal court! Assuming Judge Carter denies Obama's motion for dismissal, he will likely then order expedited discovery which will force Obama to release his birth certificate in a timely manner (if he has one).

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ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

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The expedited trial has been set for Jan. 26, 2010, just 4 1/2 months from now!

I and many other concerned veterans and citizens attended the hearing today in Federal Court in Santa Ana in the lawsuit against Barack Obama to determine his eligibility to be President and Commander in Chief. About 150 people showed up, almost all in support of the lawsuit to demand that Obama release his birth certificate and other records that he has hidden from the American people..

Judge David Carter refused to hear Obama's request for dismissal today, instead setting a hearing date for Oct. 5, since Obama's attorneys had just filed the motion on Friday. He indicated there was almost no chance that this case would be dismissed. Obama is arguing this lawsuit was filed in the wrong court if you can believe that. I guess Obama would prefer a "kangaroo court" instead of a Federal court! Assuming Judge Carter denies Obama's motion for dismissal, he will likely then order expedited discovery which will force Obama to release his birth certificate in a timely manner (if he has one).

LINK

Wonder if any of this will be in the news.
What bigger news is there than this?

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ORIGINAL: Milliecat

Okay. You tell me which one of these guys are going to go out on a limb and say that the birth certificate is not authentic? Or which judge would take the plunge and risk his job or his reputation to stand alone and give these lawsuits a chance? Maybe Fact Check should stick their necks out and be forever ridiculed like someone here who shall remain nameless always ridicules WorldNet Daily and Sarah Palin (someone who isn't afraid to stand alone and stand up for what she believes).

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This:

Judge Carter’s “should” here can only be explained by the fact that he sees his decision regarding the Motion to Dismiss as possibly making the scheduling of dates moot — that is, of granting the Motion to Dismiss on all counts, and thus denying standing to all plaintiffs.It must be stressed, that Judge Carter’s actions might indicate nothing, one way or another, other than his desire to show complete impartiality to each side, prior to his ruling on the Motion to Dismiss.

IOW, don't schedule the caterer, yet.

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Carter seemed skeptical that his courtroom -- or any courtroom -- was the appropriate place to unseat the president, but said he would rule on the arguments at an undetermined date.

"The powers that be must have got to the judge," Neil Turner, who attended the hearing, told Examiner.com. "It’s just more of the same.

"We are not going away and will not stop until we have the truth."

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I'm wondering if any one is concerned about the Constitution being violated
in such a serious way? No one wants to know the truth? One way or the other?

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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If you've never seen ANYTHING wrong with 9/11 then I think you just don't want to question your government. It sounds as if you don't question anything the government or news media says. If you had lived in 29 or 30A.D. would you have believed that Jesus was the Messiah or just another prophet causing trouble in Israel? Would you have believed He really healed the sick and raised the dead or would you have said he had a demon?

There were lots of things wrong with 9/11 - lousy security, a total failure by the people who could have, and should have, been on the alert for the plot, a total breakdown in radio communication among the first responders in NYC and a dismal failure by the government to respond once the attack was underway.

Having said that, I also have a relative who is an FBI agent who was one of the investigators of the plane that crashed into the Pentagon and I can tell you that (in addition to honorably and passionately serving this country for 23 years), his own experience at the Pentagon completely debunks the ridiculous theories about that attack. He personally marked and cataloged aircraft debris from that attack, has been part of ongoing terror investigations (including multiple oversees terror investigations), now serves as a special assistant to the Director of the FBI, and I will trust his word, and that of the 9/11 commission over the myriad armchair "conspiracy experts" - who were never part of the actual investigation - that come up with these crazy theories.

Your analogy to Christ is, unfortunately, way off the mark. These conspiracy theories are much more akin to the people who, today, are seeking the hidden gospels, looking to the gospel of Thomas and the gospel of Mary (neither of which are particularly old or credible) as new revelation that has been kept hidden by the church for centuries, than they are to those who believe the truth of the Good News.

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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Or which judge would take the plunge and risk his job or his reputation to stand alone and give these lawsuits a chance?

They are Federal judges who are appointed for life - how would they be risking their jobs if they gave one of these lawsuits a chance?

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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I'm wondering if any one is concerned about the Constitution being violated
in such a serious way? No one wants to know the truth? One way or the other?

I've looked at the high resolution photos of his birth certificate online and have read what the officials in Hawaii have to say about the document and don't know what more evidence people are looking for.

When conservative commentators like Michelle Malkin, Joe Scarborough, Michael Medved, and David Horowitz, all agree that this whole "birther" controversy is a joke, it's time to move on and actually address issues, not these ridiculous conspiracies.

Here's what Michelle Malkin said about all of this:

Alas, Trutherism thrives on both the left and right. Which brings us to the spate of lawsuits challenging President-elect Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship. On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court considers one of those suits filed by New Jersey citizen Leo Donofrio, who maintains that Obama is not a “natural born citizen” because his father held British citizenship.

There may be a seed of a legitimate constitutional issue to explore here (how is the citizenship requirement enforced for presidential candidates, anyway?) And at least Donofrio concedes that Obama was born in Hawaii. But a dangerously large segment of the birth certificate hunters have lurched into rabid Truther territory. The most prominent crusader against Obama’s American citizenship claim, lawyer Philip Berg (who, not coincidentally, is also a prominent 9/11 Truther), disputes that Obama was born in Hawaii and claims that Obama’s paternal grandmother told him she saw Obama born in Kenya.

Berg and his supporters further assert that the “Certification of Live Birth” produced by Obama was altered or forged. They claim that the contemporaneous birth announcement in a Hawaii newspaper of Obama’s birth is insufficient evidence that he was born there. (Did a fortune-teller place it in the paper knowing he would run for president?). And they accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being part and parcel of the grand plan to install Emperor Obama and usurp the rule of law.

I believe Trig was born to Sarah Palin. I believe Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on U.S. soil. I believe fire can melt steel and that bin Laden’s jihadi crew – not Bush and Cheney – perpetrated mass murder on 9/11. What kind of kooky conspiracist does that make me?

Michelle Malkin Commentary

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I was speaking of your seeming unwillingness to look at anything "differently" or to accept anything other than what others say is the truth or to not "follow the crowd".

Ah yes, the "debris" found at the Pentagon. Don't you find it strange that such a large plane flew into the Pentagon and all that we've seen is a few small strips of metal? And if your relative is an FBI agent do you really think he could give you inside information?

With 9/11 there is one very big problem for me. The towers fell in a matter of seconds, straight down, like an implosion. Tower7 REALLY looked like an implosion. Now, looking back, I think it was quite odd that there wasn't an investigation at the scene. Everyone just accepted what they were told without question.

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ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr

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I was speaking of your seeming unwillingness to look at anything "differently" or to accept anything other than what others say is the truth or to not "follow the crowd".

Ah yes, the "debris" found at the Pentagon. Don't you find it strange that such a large plane flew into the Pentagon and all that we've seen is a few small strips of metal? And if your relative is an FBI agent do you really think he could give you inside information?

With 9/11 there is one very big problem for me. The towers fell in a matter of seconds, straight down, like an implosion. Tower7 REALLY looked like an implosion. Now, looking back, I think it was quite odd that there wasn't an investigation at the scene. Everyone just accepted what they were told without question.

Speaking of "following the crowd" it seems that all you are doing is repeating the 9/11 conspiracy theorist arguments, so it is obvious that no amount of evidence will convince you of the truth.

As for my friend, it's not "inside information" for an FBI agent to tell me that he was at the Pentagon within minutes after the plane crashed there and, in his words "despite what the conspiracy theorists say, it was obvious from the debris that an airliner hit the Pentagon" (although his eyes are usually bugging out and his face is red because he gets so angry at the ridiculous, unsubstantiated lies that get presented as fact by people who weren't involved in the investigation).

To me, the bigger issue in all of this is the absolutely incredible belief the conspiracy theorists have that insiders, from multiple presidential administrations, would continue to keep something like this a secret if there had been government involvement. From the fake moon landings (which happened during a Democratic and Republican administration) to the Kennedy assassination to the 9/11 conspiracies, do you not understand that if one of our political parties were exposed as having perpetrated such a massive fraud on the American people, that party would be done forever.

If the Democrats, who now control access to all of the so-called "inside" information could show that the Bush administration had been behind 9/11 (which I don't believe for a second), they could discredit the Republican party forever. The same is true of all of these other "conspiracies", yet people somehow want to believe that some of these things have been kept secret for 45+ years, through multiple administrations, with no single, credible leak from all of the people involved...I guess that's the biggest conspiracy of all.