RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners out there?
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/3/2009 5:27:26 PM
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NickSavage
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Hello current crosswalk members.
I also stumbled onto this site/thread, while doing a Google search in relation to the whole "Family Radio" controversy. I was actually impressed by this thread, in that, it seems somewhat open to opinions, both for and against FR/Harold Camping. Similar sites found via Google seem to either totally condem/ridicule Camping, or follow him like he's the one and only truth.
I'll try to be brief. I began listening to Family Radio around 1982. I had just married my wife, and we were somewhat new to the Christian faith. We were so impressed with the programs, like "Unshackled", and "Open Forum", just to name a few. In the early 90's, when Mr. Camping started putting the "1994" message out there, I started getting a little skeptical about him. The fact that he did state even then, that there was a chance that 1994 might not be the date, I continued to listen to Family Radio after the 1994 date passed.
As time went on, it really did bother me that F.R. was cutting many of its wonderful programs, which was causing it to seem a little "cultish". After Jerry Edinger left the night music program, the music seemed to change a little too, abandoning most of the beautiful soft vocal songs, for almost only the old traditional church sound, or opera-like sounding music. So I started listening more to other local FM Christian stations.
Unfortunately, they started changing too, but in a different direction, becoming much more commercial, and also mostly all rock-sounding Christian music or "fake" Christian music, like "Butterfly Kisses"  .
So, about a year ago, I started listenting to Family Radio more again. Then, one night, I was listening while I was driving, and I heard Mr. Camping utter the phrase "May 21, 2011". And I thought to myself- "Oh-no, please don't tell me he's doing this again". Even so, it aroused my curiosity. Over the next week or so, I started hearing all the other stuff, about the Church age, etc., etc...
Listenting to Mr. Campings arguments, he does make some valid points, so I'm not ready to completely say that he couldn't be right. But I certainly wouldn't say I agree with him either. Not yet.
One thing (of many) that bothers me, is that, why is Mr. Camping the ONLY one of the major Christian radio/TV voices out there who sees and promotes this revelation. You would think, with all of the theologins out there, that others would be on to it too. But nothing.
I suppose one of my problems is that I've always relied on other people's theories and sermons, and haven't studied the Bible hard enough on my own. At this point, I have increased my own personal study of the Bible.
My prayer is that, if the 2011 date is right, that GOD will open my eyes to see and understand this.
Thanks to everybody on this thread, and please, I would love to hear other's thoughts on this intense and important subject.
God bless you all.
Nick.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/3/2009 5:34:46 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6340
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quote:
One thing (of many) that bothers me, is that, why is Mr. Camping the ONLY one of the major Christian radio/TV voices out there who sees and promotes this revelation. You would think, with all of the theologins out there, that others would be on to it too. But nothing.
At least in part it's because real Christian theologians know that date-setting is the sign of a deceived, false teacher. And as soon as that date passes, he, like other false teachers, will once again make excuses and set another date. The truly amazing thing to me isn't that there are false teachers like him, it's that, after multiple false assertions, people continue to follow them and ignore the signs of a scoudrel.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/4/2009 6:33:07 PM
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NickSavage
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I know exactly what your saying, Eutychus. There have been quite a few "date-setters" over the years, too. But the thing with most of them is that they usually give themselves away quickly when they explain how they "received" the information. Mr. Camping seems to be able to completely use the Bible to support his conclusion. But I must admit, I havent been able to actually take the time to sit down and check everything he's saying yet.
I ordered the "Time Has An End" book from Family Radio. I plan on going through it just to see for myself what he's talking about. I'll need to devote about two weeks (at least) to reading it to see if it checks out. Then, I will hopefully be able to say "it's nonsence", or, "maybe I need to look more into this".
In the mean time though, I pray that God's people whom He has called will be able to decipher this, as either truth or garbage, so that we can move on.
Has anybody out there been seriously looking into this yet??
Nick.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/7/2009 5:17:24 PM
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richartrod
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Welcome to the thread, Nick. I'm the one who wrote the opening post.
I have not read Harold Camping's "Time Has An End", but I can tell you on the authority of Scripture, from my own experience, and by Camping's own track record that he is clearly wrong about 2011 just like he was about 1994:
- In Matthew 24:36, Jesus clearly teaches that nobody knows the day or hour when the end will come. We may discern the signs of his coming (24:4-14, 37-39) but we cannot know the exact date. Camping is openly disobeying our Lord in his date-setting, but he goes forward with it anyway and recalculates his math when it fails to pass, like back in 1994.
- I am only 39 years old, but I've already seen this date-setting of the world's end three times already. When I was in high school, an evangelical teacher taught "88 Reasons Why Jesus Will Return in 1988" (nothing happened). Doomsday scenarios abounded again around 2000 concerning the Y2K bug (again, nothing happened). It's happening again surrounding 2012 because the Aztec calendar supposedly ends that year and the new "2012" movie plays up to that fear. It seems to happen every 12 years, and should the Lord tarry, I'm sure it'll happen again in 2024 and 2036.
- Harold Camping's own theology is false and heretical through and through. His doctrine is completely based on numerology, jumping around unrelated Bible verses to justify his beliefs, and his own prejudice against the organized church. For example, he now teaches that hell does not exist, basing it on his false interpretation of "the second death" in Revelation 14:20 as annihilation (ceasing to exist), and he tosses out hell as a false "Church Age" teaching. But Revelation 14:10 and Luke 16:19-31 (the parable of the rich man and Lazarus) refute that claim.
But I am concerned that you are allowing yourself to be lulled back into Family Radio's bad teaching for the reasons Camping wants you to come back for:
- You wrote that you don't like the rock-sounding "fake" praise music found on Christian radio nowadays. That indicates a preference for a particular type of Christian music on your part; I've heard old hymns like "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" arranged for rock, acapella, African chant and even Hawaiian music, and it all brings glory to our Lord. God doesn't like only traditional classical music. The many music styles of the world's peoples reflect the diversity of His creation and the manifold gratitude for His grace.
- Camping seems able to rely only on the Bible to support his teachings, but so do cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unification Church, and followers of Herbert W. Armstrong. He cannot or will not read Scripture plainly; he must rely on jumping scattershot all over the Bible and pulling selected verses out of context to come to his bizarre conclusions, justifying it as "Scripture interpreting Scripture". If not especially for his numerology and applying "spiritual meaning" or a "picture" to a verse, his teachings fall apart.
- Camping's soft baritone voice is comforting and charismatic, like a kind grandfather. That alone lets down one's guard. He rightly complains about what's wrong in the church and our culture (same-sex marriage, liberal pastors, the family breakdown etc.), which conservative Christians are also concerned about. But once that connection is made, Camping then declares it symptoms of the end of the Church Age and he goes into his false "depart out" teaching.
Family Radio is now an all-out cult rather than "cultish" because Camping has jettisoned core Christian beliefs such as eternal punishment for the unsaved and Jesus dying for our sins. If this is the kind of ministry you want to support, that is your decision.
I invite you to look at the following links:
- Evaluation of Harold Camping by the Christian Research Institute
- Redeemer Broadcasting: a regional Christian radio ministry in upstate New York that plays the softer vocal music Family Radio used to play. They cut their ties with FR because of Camping's false teaching and launched their own network reminiscent of Family Radio in its better days. Featured teachers include Ravi Zacharias, John McArthur, R.C. Sproul and the late James Montgomery Boice.
Thanks for sharing.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/7/2009 8:43:08 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 16638
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quote:
When I was in high school, an evangelical teacher taught "88 Reasons Why Jesus Will Return in 1988" (nothing happened).
Now that was a fun book, lol! "88 Reasons why the rapture is in '88!"
< Message edited by humbleinspirit -- 11/7/2009 8:49:08 PM >
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/7/2009 9:46:25 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Yes, I do remember hearing about that too, however I do not think that the author was associated with Family Radio at all though.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/8/2009 5:57:52 AM
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kelman
Posts: 5080
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NickSavage
I know exactly what your saying, Eutychus. There have been quite a few "date-setters" over the years, too. But the thing with most of them is that they usually give themselves away quickly when they explain how they "received" the information. Mr. Camping seems to be able to completely use the Bible to support his conclusion. But I must admit, I havent been able to actually take the time to sit down and check everything he's saying yet.
I ordered the "Time Has An End" book from Family Radio. I plan on going through it just to see for myself what he's talking about. I'll need to devote about two weeks (at least) to reading it to see if it checks out. Then, I will hopefully be able to say "it's nonsence", or, "maybe I need to look more into this".
In the mean time though, I pray that God's people whom He has called will be able to decipher this, as either truth or garbage, so that we can move on.
Has anybody out there been seriously looking into this yet??
Nick.
Camping's dating system is questionable to me. The main one, I say "main" because it's one of the easier to understand, is Moses' father. In order to make the stay in Egypt 430 years, which is crititical for his dating system, Camping writes that Amram is not the immediate father of Moses.
Camping comes to the conclusion that Amram is not Moses' imediate father because the Bible doesn't say "and he called his name". It's hard, though, to deny the many verses which certainly appear to be teaching an immediate fatherhood for Amram.
Exodus 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram were an hundred and thirty and seven years.
Numbers 26:59 And the name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, whom her mother bare to Levi in Egypt: and she bare unto Amram Aaron and Moses, and Miriam their sister.
1 Chronicles 6:3 And the children of Amram; Aaron, and Moses, and Miriam. The sons also of Aaron; Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
1 Chronicles 23:13 The sons of Amram; Aaron and Moses: and Aaron was separated, that he should sanctify the most holy things, he and his sons for ever, to burn incense before the LORD, to minister unto him, and to bless in his name for ever.
In general, I've always agreed with his patriarchal system of dating; but, I think there's too much biblical evidence against this theory with regard to Moses and Amram.....and it is critical. Without this assumption the 7000 years from the flood to 2011 doesn't work.
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beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/9/2009 1:03:19 AM
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evjon
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quote:
post About 30-35 years ago I was frequently in California on business travel and I often listened to Family Radio which, at that time, had many excellent programs and preachers. I was impressed that in his call in show, callers could mention any scripture and Mr. Camping was very familiar with it, very frequently quoting the scripture immediately.
One day someone asked him about his own salvation. His reply deeply disturbed me. It was along the lines that he had been a Christian from his earliest memory. He said that he had never been in rebellion against God. Nor, in order to repent, one must understand that he is a sinner against God. At that time I wondered about his salvation but in many other ways, he seemed so genuine. As time went on, I noticed that he was rarely espousing beliefs that were contrary to the teaching of Scripture. I eventually stopped listening to him but was still able to benefit from other programs on Family Radio.
I am truly sorry to hear he has gone so very far from Scripture but I guess I should not be surprised.
As for me, I will continue to celebrate the Lord's supper until He calls me home, or until He comes which is what He, through Paul, commanded His followers to do.
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/10/2009 10:25:45 AM
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NickSavage
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I would like to thank everyone for sharing their imput on this subject, and richartrod for starting it.
And thanks for the verse references kelman!
I respect everyones opinion on this. As I stated earlier, my Bible study has been VERY limited through the years, mostly depending on church sermons and Christian radio programs for study. This year I started a "through the Bible in a year" program (not Family Radio's), and that is helping.
I have never been a regular financial supporter of Family Radio. And I'm still a regular tither at chuch. But one thing that has always kept me listening to Family Radio, is the spiritually-rich programs, music, and little tidbits (refering to non-Harold Camping segments).
While the music can be a little hard for me to listen to sometimes, when I actually listen to the words of the songs, they are so incredibly God-glorifying, and so much deeper than songs on the contemporary Christian stations
For these reasons, I'm still a FR listener. As for Camping, when I do listen to him, I take an incredible "grain of salt" attitude with his material.
Nick.
< Message edited by NickSavage -- 11/10/2009 10:33:28 AM >
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/10/2009 12:15:48 PM
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stampinlady
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I tuned in yesterday because the christian station I usually listen irritated me wiht some "emergant" stuff that's been showing up here and there. I turned FR off when Camping came on. Dh filled me in on him and I'll stay clear, but I love the music and bible reading and a few other things.
_____________________________
Deb
"In my opinion, we don't devote nearly enough scientific research to finding a cure for jerks."
Calvin and Hobbes
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RE: Any former Family Radio/Harold Camping listeners ou... - 11/15/2009 4:20:47 AM
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richartrod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
I tuned in yesterday because the christian station I usually listen irritated me wiht some "emergant" stuff that's been showing up here and there. I turned FR off when Camping came on. Dh filled me in on him and I'll stay clear, but I love the music and bible reading and a few other things.
I mention this a lot but it's worth repeating. Redeemer Broadcasting is a good Christian radio station that broke off from Family Radio because of Camping's bizarre teachings. They have the same great traditional music as FR, along with Bible readings from Max McClean ("The Listener's Bible") and strong biblical teachers such as Alister Begg, John McArthur, R.C. Sproul, Joni Eareckson Tada and the late James Montgomery Boice.
You can listen to Redeemer online at www.redeemerbroadcasting.org . I think you might like it; it's like what FR used to be like before Camping went nuts.
< Message edited by richartrod -- 11/15/2009 4:28:14 AM >
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