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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/24/2008 11:11:10 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Do I sound too secular to use the word 'Christian religion'? As several have posted on the previous page, the concept of our Christian faith being a religion is Scriptural! Perhaps it's more the fact that all other religions except ours are, in the final analysis, secular, according to its original definition - "being of the world".
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/24/2008 11:18:40 AM
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Eutychus
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I've always understood "secular" to mean non-religious and "religious" to mean activities done to show one's devotion to their sacred beliefs but not necessarily an indication of the person being righteous in God's sight. Some of the most religious people I know are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/24/2008 1:12:28 PM
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OLEEguacamole
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Do we change the truth to a lie, to suit those who are deceived and so deceive them further? Do we denigrate the truth by poo pooing it with the broad stripe of "Christianese", thereby relegating the truth to the ever growing dung pile of political correctness?
Christianity is not a "belief system", and because it is not it cannot be compared to anything else in this world. Unless we recognize that Christianity is Christ, that it is Him living in and through us...then we have nothing to convey to anyone.
Peace
what's the lie?
Do we not call God "God" even though no other god can compare to Him? God above all gods. name above all names. oops we see comparison.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/24/2008 7:03:39 PM
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Liveloved
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I don't know about others but I associate 'religious people' with the religious people such as the Pharisees who knew all about God, were experts on the law and God's word, but failed miserably when it came to having a dynamic relationship with God. They were followers but not lovers. And, for me, that is why when I hear the word 'religion', I rebel. I don't believe in a set of doctrines. I love Jesus and believe Him.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 10:08:45 AM
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kingdust
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I don't know about others but I associate 'religious people' with the religious people such as the Pharisees who knew all about God, were experts on the law and God's word, but failed miserably when it came to having a dynamic relationship with God. They were followers but not lovers. And, for me, that is why when I hear the word 'religion', I rebel. I don't believe in a set of doctrines. I love Jesus and believe Him.
Yes, the word association it is, just like black or white people.
We don't use the word 'black' no more to describe black race simply because the word black is mainly associated with slavery, and to be right politically.
Now, it is Afro-American even though they are born in the USA, not in Africa.
What about my race, Asian?
According to the 'relationship' terminology, I should refuse to be classified as Asian race because I am Christian race first, not Asian first.
My race changed when I was born again.
What is my fathers name?
Should I say 'MR. Suh senior, or Heavenly Father?
I am born again, so my parents are no longer my physical parents?
Like I said, only 'in house', I am Christian race.
A step outside, I am Asian race.
You will definitely see me as Asian when you see me in the street of NYC, not Christian race, because you can't tell by looking at the outward appearance.
I won't rebel if you call me an Asian brother, not Christian brother.
I will just be appreciated the fact that you call me a brother.
By the same token, Christian religion don't bother me just because the presence of the true God is in our religion, despite of those religious people who give the wrong impression or message to the world.
Just a word, or semantic.
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 9:01:31 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 1394
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Take Christ out of Christianity and you will have religion, as you have beautifully pointed out.
I fail to see how I have pointed out any such thing. My question is, if you keep Christ in Christianity, does religion still remain?
Also, your response is a complete avoidance of the issue. You said that Christianity does not involve rules to keep or a moral code. However, those verses prove that Christ expects us to follow His commandments.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 9:16:11 PM
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figmentPez
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My mother, sister and I had a conversation about this subject not too long ago. My mother loves the phrase "it's not a religion, it's a relationship" but my sister and I feel that it's just another slogan of "sound-bite christianity" that reduces following Christ down to catchy phrases that sound nice but don't actually mean anything.
In the end I think we realized that the phrase means very different things to different people, and it sometimes encourages people to come to very wrong conclusions.
To those who grew up in strict or regimented religious backgrounds (Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, other conservative protestants) especially those who are still in churches who do everything by the book and don't even sneeze unless it's printed in the bulliten, the revelation that God wants a relationship, and that following Jesus isn't just about sitting on hard pews and singing dirges, can be an amazing thing. For those who do have the all the trappings of religion, but feel no connection to God, it is a wonderful thing for them to realize that God is not just a nebulous force, but personal, and wanting to relate to them.
On the other hand, there are those who already feel a connection with their own personal "god" (and believe me, they are out there), those who feel a personal connection with their own idea of who god is, and feel they connect with him or her just fine on their own, without having anyone tell them anything they don't want to here. Some of these people even call themselves chrstian, even if their god bears no resemblance to Jesus Christ. To these people, this concept we're discussing is not only self-evident, they find it as reason to reject the need for fellowship with anyone, let alone any Christian who would want to preach exclusive truths or intolerant doctrine. They already have what they think is a relationship with god, and the idea that they don't need religion is just another reason for them to stay far far away from any church or gathering of people who believe in anything.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 10:39:38 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
Take Christ out of Christianity and you will have religion, as you have beautifully pointed out.
I fail to see how I have pointed out any such thing. My question is, if you keep Christ in Christianity, does religion still remain?
Also, your response is a complete avoidance of the issue. You said that Christianity does not involve rules to keep or a moral code. However, those verses prove that Christ expects us to follow His commandments.
If you are saying that Christianity is about you making yourself acceptable to God by your keeping rules and a moral code, then I would say that for you, most definitely, it is a religion.
For me, Christianity is Jesus Christ living His life in and through me. For me, Christianity is, Christ in me, my only hope of glory. It is not something I work for, it is Someone I rest in.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:03:07 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1812
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
My mother, sister and I had a conversation about this subject not too long ago. My mother loves the phrase "it's not a religion, it's a relationship" but my sister and I feel that it's just another slogan of "sound-bite christianity" that reduces following Christ down to catchy phrases that sound nice but don't actually mean anything.
In the end I think we realized that the phrase means very different things to different people, and it sometimes encourages people to come to very wrong conclusions.
To those who grew up in strict or regimented religious backgrounds (Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, other conservative protestants) especially those who are still in churches who do everything by the book and don't even sneeze unless it's printed in the bulliten, the revelation that God wants a relationship, and that following Jesus isn't just about sitting on hard pews and singing dirges, can be an amazing thing. For those who do have the all the trappings of religion, but feel no connection to God, it is a wonderful thing for them to realize that God is not just a nebulous force, but personal, and wanting to relate to them.
On the other hand, there are those who already feel a connection with their own personal "god" (and believe me, they are out there), those who feel a personal connection with their own idea of who god is, and feel they connect with him or her just fine on their own, without having anyone tell them anything they don't want to here. Some of these people even call themselves chrstian, even if their god bears no resemblance to Jesus Christ. To these people, this concept we're discussing is not only self-evident, they find it as reason to reject the need for fellowship with anyone, let alone any Christian who would want to preach exclusive truths or intolerant doctrine. They already have what they think is a relationship with god, and the idea that they don't need religion is just another reason for them to stay far far away from any church or gathering of people who believe in anything.
You've made some good points. But again what I often see and hear among those who want to tallk about doctrinal stuff is just that---it's all about what they believe, know to be true, but not about a person, the person of Jesus Christ.
Yes, I know Jesus through God's word. But He is a person Who I have a love relationship with---and we don't talk about our loves the same way we talk about the ingredients to a recipe or scientific formula or some other factual information.
Just as kingdust has mentioned, I don't know kingdust because he is asian or even by other descriptives. I relate to kingdust. He is my friend. I don't think of him in terms of a physical description or what he does or doesn't do or say. He is a unique person who I relate to---and that is what matters. It is the same with Jesus or any other person I relate to. I know and may believe certain things to be true about that person but the relationship makes it personal, intimate and something that transcends facts.
I don't know if I've expressed myself very well but I'm just trying to emphasize the personal relational aspect that flows out of love and is very different from things I just believe to be true. I don't follow rules. His ways are beyond head knowledge. They are inward imparted spiritual knowings. And love surrounds all.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:15:10 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
If you are saying that Christianity is about you making yourself acceptable to God by your keeping rules and a moral code, then I would say that for you, most definitely, it is a religion.
For me, Christianity is Jesus Christ living His life in and through me. For me, Christianity is, Christ in me, my only hope of glory. It is not something I work for, it is Someone I rest in.
I'm saying that there is a moral standard that God wants us to adhere to. Any summation of Christianity must contain an acknowledgment that God has expectations of us, even while we proclaim that He is the one who makes it possible for us to achieve them.
I am using the word religion as defined by the dictionary, which I find to be a better definition than any other given in this thread. Christianity is the "service and worship of God", it is "a set of beliefs and practices" and therefore it is a religion. You cannot have a right relationship with God (never mind that you can have an antagonistic relationship and it's still a relationship), without serving and worshipping Him. You cannot say you truly know God if you have not sought to know the beliefs He declares to be true and the practices He says we are to follow.
quote:
I know and may believe certain things to be true about that person but the relationship makes it personal, intimate and something that transcends facts.
Very well, but can you have a relationship that contradicts facts? I will fully admit that it is necessary to know and love God on more than just an intellectual level, however too many people fall into just wanting a superficial relationship to make them feel good about themselves and their life, without ever seeking to know truth about God. Too many people who have said "I don't follow rules" have decided that they can love God while living their lives solely to please themselves, thinking that somehow God is pleased because they are seeking pleasure.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:26:31 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
If you are saying that Christianity is about you making yourself acceptable to God by your keeping rules and a moral code, then I would say that for you, most definitely, it is a religion.
For me, Christianity is Jesus Christ living His life in and through me. For me, Christianity is, Christ in me, my only hope of glory. It is not something I work for, it is Someone I rest in.
quote:
I'm saying that there is a moral standard that God wants us to adhere to. Any summation of Christianity must contain an acknowledgment that God has expectations of us, even while we proclaim that He is the one who makes it possible for us to achieve them.
God is our moral standard...and His standard is perfection.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:34:39 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
God is our moral standard...and His standard is perfection.
I agree, but how do we know what exactly perfection consists of? How do we know who God is?
We know primarily by the study of the scriptures, the commandments that God has given us to follow, and the declarations that God has made about who He is.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:40:13 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
God is our moral standard...and His standard is perfection.
I agree, but how do we know what exactly perfection consists of? How do we know who God is?
We know primarily by the study of the scriptures, the commandments that God has given us to follow, and the declarations that God has made about who He is.
The point is that if you are going to attain your goal by self effort the standard that must be met is that you must be perfect. It matters not by how far you miss the mark, you can miss it by and inch or you can miss it by a mile, it is still missing the mark. The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:48:15 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The point is that if you are going to attain your goal by self effort the standard that must be met is that you must be perfect. It matters not by how far you miss the mark, you can miss it by and inch or you can miss it by a mile, it is still missing the mark. The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect.
How is that supposed point even relevant to what we are discussing here? Yes, it's impossible to actually achieve perfection in regards to the Law of Moses, and it's equally impossible to achieve perfection in regards to God's perfect Law. However, that does not change that God has told us how to live our lives, and that there are specific standards that He has laid out for us. God gave us specific commandments about what we are to do, and what we are not to do, and those are part of Christianity. Yes, those specifics are to be found in Christ, but they aren't just a vague generality, they are spelled out in scripture for a reason. God wants us to study what He has told us!
God told us about Himself in scripture and has commanded us to study scripture to learn about Him and His commandments for how we are to live our lives. It doesn't matter that it's possible to read the Bible without ever knowing God. It doesn't matter that we can't perfectly follow what we'll be learning about if we study scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The truth remains that scripture tells us about God and His commandments, and we are to learn about Him through the Bible, and we are to seek to follow what He teaches us there.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/25/2008 11:57:11 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The point is that if you are going to attain your goal by self effort the standard that must be met is that you must be perfect. It matters not by how far you miss the mark, you can miss it by and inch or you can miss it by a mile, it is still missing the mark. The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect.
How is that supposed point even relevant to what we are discussing here? Yes, it's impossible to actually achieve perfection in regards to the Law of Moses, and it's equally impossible to achieve perfection in regards to God's perfect Law. However, that does not change that God has told us how to live our lives, and that there are specific standards that He has laid out for us. God gave us specific commandments about what we are to do, and what we are not to do, and those are part of Christianity. Yes, those specifics are to be found in Christ, but they aren't just a vague generality, they are spelled out in scripture for a reason. God wants us to study what He has told us!
God told us about Himself in scripture and has commanded us to study scripture to learn about Him and His commandments for how we are to live our lives. It doesn't matter that it's possible to read the Bible without ever knowing God. It doesn't matter that we can't perfectly follow what we'll be learning about if we study scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The truth remains that scripture tells us about God and His commandments, and we are to learn about Him through the Bible, and we are to seek to follow what He teaches us there.
I would say this is a very good description of religion, but not of Christianity. It's late sir...
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/26/2008 8:53:39 AM
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drmark
Posts: 4627
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect. I guess it depends on how one defines perfection, just as much as it depends on how one defines religion! Religious perfection is indeed unachievable in this life. Relational perfection is emminently attainable in this life! In fact, God commands relational perfection in dozens of Scripture passages. And when we are relationally perfect in, with, and through Christ, then we will most certainly be practicing religion the way God intends us to.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/26/2008 10:25:30 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect. I guess it depends on how one defines perfection, just as much as it depends on how one defines religion! Religious perfection is indeed unachievable in this life. Relational perfection is emminently attainable in this life! In fact, God commands relational perfection in dozens of Scripture passages. And when we are relationally perfect in, with, and through Christ, then we will most certainly be practicing religion the way God intends us to.
God defines perfection as Himself. "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Christ says that if you want a religion that can save you, then this is it...be perfect. A reasonable demand from a perfect God, is it not?
We who have accepted Christ, have been made perfect, not through anything we have done or can do, but through what Christ has done, and what He now does in and through us. And when we are relationally perfect, when we are abiding in Him, then He expresses His perfection through us by producing good fruit. We do not produce that fruit, He does.
That is not practicing religion, that is being who God made us to be, it is being who we are as Children of God. It is the opposite of religion. It is being a branch and not trying to be the Vine. It is resting in The Perfect One Christ, so that He can perfectly be who He is in and through us, and in so doing reach out to a lost and hurting world.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/26/2008 12:10:45 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 614
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect. I guess it depends on how one defines perfection, just as much as it depends on how one defines religion! Religious perfection is indeed unachievable in this life. Relational perfection is emminently attainable in this life! In fact, God commands relational perfection in dozens of Scripture passages. And when we are relationally perfect in, with, and through Christ, then we will most certainly be practicing religion the way God intends us to.
God defines perfection as Himself. "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Christ says that if you want a religion that can save you, then this is it...be perfect. A reasonable demand from a perfect God, is it not?
We who have accepted Christ, have been made perfect, not through anything we have done or can do, but through what Christ has done, and what He now does in and through us. And when we are relationally perfect, when we are abiding in Him, then He expresses His perfection through us by producing good fruit. We do not produce that fruit, He does.
That is not practicing religion, that is being who God made us to be, it is being who we are as Children of God. It is the opposite of religion. It is being a branch and not trying to be the Vine. It is resting in The Perfect One Christ, so that He can perfectly be who He is in and through us, and in so doing reach out to a lost and hurting world.
Peace
so then, all of the people in your life would describe you as loving them perfectly?
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/26/2008 2:05:42 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
The Christian life is Christ, and only He live it, for He alone is perfect. I guess it depends on how one defines perfection, just as much as it depends on how one defines religion! Religious perfection is indeed unachievable in this life. Relational perfection is emminently attainable in this life! In fact, God commands relational perfection in dozens of Scripture passages. And when we are relationally perfect in, with, and through Christ, then we will most certainly be practicing religion the way God intends us to.
God defines perfection as Himself. "Be perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect." Christ says that if you want a religion that can save you, then this is it...be perfect. A reasonable demand from a perfect God, is it not?
We who have accepted Christ, have been made perfect, not through anything we have done or can do, but through what Christ has done, and what He now does in and through us. And when we are relationally perfect, when we are abiding in Him, then He expresses His perfection through us by producing good fruit. We do not produce that fruit, He does.
That is not practicing religion, that is being who God made us to be, it is being who we are as Children of God. It is the opposite of religion. It is being a branch and not trying to be the Vine. It is resting in The Perfect One Christ, so that He can perfectly be who He is in and through us, and in so doing reach out to a lost and hurting world.
Peace
so then, all of the people in your life would describe you as loving them perfectly?
It is only Christ who loves perfectly.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/26/2008 4:10:07 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 614
Status: offline
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that's imperfect fruit (coming from you )then.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/26/2008 9:54:28 PM
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drmark
Posts: 4627
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
That is not practicing religion, that is being who God made us to be, it is being who we are as Children of God. Well, URF, it's a very tidy doctrine, but it appears to me to be totally non-relational. 1 John 4:11-21 clearly indicates that we must love others in order to love God. That is practicing religion just the way God commands us to, my brother!
quote:
It is only Christ who loves perfectly. Which is exactly why I can also love perfectly when the Love of Christ is in my whole heart!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 9:02:15 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
that's imperfect fruit (coming from you )then.
If it is coming from me I can assure you that it is imperfect.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 9:18:18 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 523
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
That is not practicing religion, that is being who God made us to be, it is being who we are as Children of God. Well, URF, it's a very tidy doctrine, but it appears to me to be totally non-relational. 1 John 4:11-21 clearly indicates that we must love others in order to love God. That is practicing religion just the way God commands us to, my brother!
quote:
It is only Christ who loves perfectly. Which is exactly why I can also love perfectly when the Love of Christ is in my whole heart!
If you see the connection between a child and their parent as non-relational, then how exactly would you define relational?
Can you really produce agape love? Or is it God who produces that love in you, so that you can then share His love with others? Are you the vine, or are you the branch?
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 11:21:12 AM
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drmark
Posts: 4627
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
If you see the connection between a child and their parent as non-relational, then how exactly would you define relational? I certainly do not see the parent/child connection as non-relational, just as I do not see the Triune God/ created Believer connection as non-relational. What are you getting at?
quote:
Can you really produce agape love? Or is it God who produces that love in you, so that you can then share His love with others? Are you the vine, or are you the branch? Yes, I can and must produce agape love, but only with the Love of Christ abiding fully in me. There is no other meaningful way to interpret 1 John 4:7-21. The Spirit-filled Christian cannot sit around and let God do all the work, URF! There are places to go, holy behaviors to practice, and people to love - that is the true definition of Christian religion, just like Jesus did it!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Is Christianity Religion or No Religion? - 12/27/2008 1:40:27 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1812
Status: offline
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quote:
figmentPez
Very well, but can you have a relationship that contradicts facts? I will fully admit that it is necessary to know and love God on more than just an intellectual level, however too many people fall into just wanting a superficial relationship to make them feel good about themselves and their life, without ever seeking to know truth about God. Too many people who have said "I don't follow rules" have decided that they can love God while living their lives solely to please themselves, thinking that somehow God is pleased because they are seeking pleasure.
I would say my relationship with Jesus is just that---a relationship that contradicts 'facts'. Truth does that.
Yes, we have two ends of the spectrum here. We have the 'religious folk' who follow the rules, study the scripture, practice the rituals and talk about God and think they have a relationship with Him, but the love is not there. Then you have those who, as you have described, have made God into an image that pleases themselves.
But that's what most of 'religion' is as well---self pleasing rather than God pleasing.
When we love the Lord and know His love on a personal, intimate, passionate level, we will follow Him, follow in His ways because His love overflows from us to God and to others. His love is the defining characteristic of relationship with Him. And that love, His love, is not the worldly 'love', but God love as scripture shows us.
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