RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touch us?!?!
View related threads:
(in this forum
| in all forums)
|
Logged in as: Guest
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/25/2008 9:16:22 AM
|
|
|
Megbeth21
Posts: 20
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline
|
Hey 4Him,
Sorry, just caught your earlier post.
As for the first question, Deleted pretty much covered everything I was going to say. :0) Also, the trinity existed before Jesus was born in the manger (see John1:1-5 & Gen.1:26 which says, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness.”) Gen.18 also says, “The Lord appeared to Abraham”. This could not have been God the Father, because God would not even show His face to Moses. Something to think about. :0)
For the rest of your questions, I don’t think you interpreted everything I said correctly. I‘ll try to sum this up without overtaking this thread, hehe.
I agree that Satan is a lot more powerful than many people believe (which I mentioned in one of my earlier posts). I definitely believe he is more powerful than any human being; however he is *not* more powerful than God (Matt. 28:18, Col. 1:16, Jms 2:19 Rev.17:14). I believe that Jesus Christ won a victory which we partake in (Lk 20:19, Roms. 8:15-17, Gal. 3:26, Gal. 4:7). I believe when we seek shelter in His name, there we *are* given authority over the enemy through Christ Jesus (1Jn4:4, 1Jn5:4, Roms.8:37).
I think some people get prideful in this area, forgetting our authority is in Jesus, and just start casting out demons right and left, and behaving in ways that I don’t believe Christians should (we can see the results of this in Acts 19). I believe this is an act of pride and the Bible speaks against it (Lk10:20, Jude1:9,Gal.3:3). However, I believe when the enemy attacks us personally, or if God does send us to battle, we can and should stand on our authority and call on the name of Jesus. Even David wrote about taking shelter in God and calling on God to help him overcome his enemies. I don’t believe we’re just supposed to sit and do nothing when Satan attacks us, but we should fight back (Eph. 6:10-11 -- [I]“Finally, be strong in the Lord and in His mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.“ [/I]). And, yes, I believe God will use it to make us stronger if we allow Him.
There are cases in the Bible where God uses Satan to carry out His will. Not only in Revelations but in many battles in the Old Testament, in cases such as Job, and even many of the events surrounding the crucifixion. 99% of these cases were (1)carrying out prophesies, (2)God lifting His covering due to sin and unrepentant hearts.
I have had experiences where the spirit wouldn’t leave right away. I believe there can be a few different reasons for this.
1) As I said earlier, there are different powers and principalities (Eph. 6:12) and some spirits are stronger than others. Some will leave right away and some might take a longer battle of prayer and fasting (Matt. 17:21, Mk 9:21).
2) A second reason is when we have sin, or lack of faith (Matt. 17:19-20), in our hearts which we need to get right before God (Matt. 6:23).
Actually, I do think you’re right about Satan being permitted in God’s presence. There was a discussion going on at my church the other day and they brought up the fact that Satan came before God in the book of Job and again in Joshua. I do believe though, that Satan hates hearing praises raised to God and I have both seen and experienced strongholds being broken through praising and worshipping God. I have also experienced demons fleeing when I spoke the name of Jesus, and I do not take for granted the power in His name.
In Christ,
Megan :0)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/25/2008 10:24:40 AM
|
|
|
Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
delete123,
quote:
I believe Megan was referring to this scripture and I also was taught by a different church that this is so. Jacob wrestled with God
I agree that's the correct scripture Megan was thinking of. I agreed with that in the first post. And, I too, was taught by 'the church'. But I was taught that this "man" was an angel. While this verse and context says nothing about "the man" being an angel or God or Jesus. That's why I asked the question...where does the church come up with such a teaching as "the man" being one of those three?
Verse 36 says: Then the Man said, "Let me go, for it is dawn." So are we to believe God can't wrestle at dawn? That sounds more like a vampire than God. Understand, I'm really not saying I think it was a vampire. I just wouldn't say anyone knows for sure...and I'm OK with that. My faith doesn't rest in the totality of church doctrine.
AbbeyGrace,
quote:
Jacob, the ambitious deceiver, had now become Israel, the one who struggles with God and overcomes.
But the word/name Israel doesn't mean 'one who struggles with God' according to Strongs.
3478 Yisra'el: he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity.
I'm not saying the church taught all of us wrong...but someone must be if I was taught "an angel" and you were taught "God" and others were taught "Jesus" who had not yet manifested as 'the word became flesh and lived among us.'
It really isn't worth saying much more IMO. It's probably served as much purpose as it can for the sake of the thread's question.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/25/2008 12:33:45 PM
|
|
|
Megbeth21
Posts: 20
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline
|
Him4All (Got it right this time ;0) )
That's okay, you dont have to agree with everything I said. :0) I appreciate your feedback. I think its good to hear other Christians' perspectives on the scriptures. Gives us opportunities to learn something from each other and to go back and re-study what we've learned. I definately agree that we allow too much division in the church over opinions on small things. :0/ (I've seen some brutal arguments....not pretty.)
I appreciate that you took the time to look up the scriptures. I couldn't find the exact ones I had in mind about God's authority and sin hindering our walk with Him, etc... I figured everyone would get the basic idea what I was trying to say. :0)
In Christ,
Megan
Sorry again, Abby, about overtaking your thread. Moving back to topic now.....
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/25/2008 3:21:28 PM
|
|
|
momma-mo
Posts: 659
Joined: 3/27/2006
From: Galifrey
Status: offline
|
As a previous poster stated...the reason why some demons are rebuked but don't leave is because Jesus told us, some will not leave without praying and fasting!
_____________________________
Jesus died and lived to tell about it!
Rapture: Separation of Church and state...
"With great chocolate comes great responsibility." Larry Boy
http://frontdoorministries.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/25/2008 7:26:54 PM
|
|
|
Liveloved
Posts: 2083
Status: offline
|
I have not read all the posts on this lengthy thread but I do know that the demonic realm is very real. My first experience (that I know of) was when I was interceding for our pastor and things that were taking place in our church. The Lord would wake me at night to pray. And I would get up and pray. There were a number occasions when after returning to bed, I was very aware of an evil presence near my bed. And two times I woke screaming as something reached out for me.
But I remembered something Tozer said many years ago. The closer we grow to the Lord, the louder the devil's growl. I knew that my prayers were making a difference in the spiritual realm and that satan was not happy.
So I prayed on. Greater is He that is in me than he (satan) that is in the world.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/26/2008 9:05:27 AM
|
|
|
delete123
Posts: 988
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
delete123,
quote:
I believe Megan was referring to this scripture and I also was taught by a different church that this is so. Jacob wrestled with God
I agree that's the correct scripture Megan was thinking of. I agreed with that in the first post. And, I too, was taught by 'the church'. But I was taught that this "man" was an angel. While this verse and context says nothing about "the man" being an angel or God or Jesus. That's why I asked the question...where does the church come up with such a teaching as "the man" being one of those three?
Verse 36 says: Then the Man said, "Let me go, for it is dawn." So are we to believe God can't wrestle at dawn? That sounds more like a vampire than God. Understand, I'm really not saying I think it was a vampire. I just wouldn't say anyone knows for sure...and I'm OK with that. My faith doesn't rest in the totality of church doctrine.
DR
How about wht Jesus says He is in Revelation 22:16......I am both David's Root and his Descendant. I am the bright Morning Star.
Just a thought
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/26/2008 12:13:15 PM
|
|
|
Him4all
Posts: 479
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
delete123,
Definitely a good verse to consider, though it still comes a little short of being 'conclusive' to me at this point.
DR
_____________________________
When you violate LOVE you violate GOD.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/26/2008 1:38:22 PM
|
|
|
d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
Status: offline
|
OP,
Job was not allowed to be touched by the hand of Satan until God allowed, and even then, Satan was only allowed to go as far as God would allow. So, I suppose if God wanted an evil spirit to be allowed to literally touch you... so be it.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 11/27/2008 12:02:23 AM
|
|
|
AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
OP,
Job was not allowed to be touched by the hand of Satan until God allowed, and even then, Satan was only allowed to go as far as God would allow. So, I suppose if God wanted an evil spirit to be allowed to literally touch you... so be it.
I agree 100%...I know God controls all, and I "think" that maybe sometimes God may allow it, just to show us how real evil is as well. I know there are alot of people, who might read some of these post, and be in disbelief, but I know for a fact, its very real.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 12/3/2008 11:51:47 PM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
Yes it is very real. Here is the final word for me. I have dealt with these things as well. See this scripture:
2 Corinthians 10
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war (H)according to the flesh,
4for the (I)weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful (J)for the destruction of fortresses.
5We are destroying speculations and every (K)lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the (L)obedience of Christ,
"fortresses" speaks of the hebrew word "mauzim" which is a sort of inner fortitude but in Hebrew concepts this is real power
The only Christian weapon I have ever heard of is the sword of the Spirit in Ephesians 6. This is the Word of God. John MacArthur does a great job on this at GTY.org Just do a search for whatever you need. You will find many free transcripts to read. Have NO fear of demons sister, for the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 12/4/2008 4:30:04 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6364
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
OP,
Job was not allowed to be touched by the hand of Satan until God allowed, and even then, Satan was only allowed to go as far as God would allow. So, I suppose if God wanted an evil spirit to be allowed to literally touch you... so be it.
One thing is to say that God allowed Satan to bring ill to Job. Another is to use Job as an example of Satan LITERALLY physically himself in a corporeal body touching Job's skin.
See the difference?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 12/5/2008 10:59:44 AM
|
|
|
terryjohn
Posts: 469
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
I agree that Satan is a lot more powerful than many people believe [/quote
The one thing we must be sure of is that in the end we will see satan as he really is and will be truely shocked that he was able to destroy kingdoms and bring down kings. Satan as Luther pointed out is always God's. Satans greatest fear is for men everywhere to realise their adoption and sonship in Christ. I also believe that satan himself is shocked by the evil of men for even he knows to be respectful in the presence of God. You could say that satan trusts none of us, for given the chance we would do unto him, what he did to God.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 12/6/2008 1:14:28 AM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
Satan is totally ruled by God and so is man. Concentrate on the words "purpose" here in these passages. It is God's purpose that rules. Man's intent is insignificant.
Revelation 17
12"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
15Then the angel said to me, "The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God's words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Can an evil spirit touch us? I mean literally touc... - 12/6/2008 9:35:45 AM
|
|
|
cchsfcaleader
Posts: 87
Joined: 11/15/2008
Status: offline
|
if demons can control people then they can definitely touch them.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
, but certainly agreed with most. 
And to 'take over the thread' to discuss 'differences' just wouldn't be right...I agree, hehe. 
