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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/17/2008 10:56:30 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3282
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Yep. I trimmed it down to just the exact point. While manipulation is never a good thing (unless you're a chiropractor) transparency is always a good thing, even an essential thing
So, what does a totally transparent man say to his wife, who's getting a bit pleasantly plump, when she asks "hon, does my butt look fat in this?"
_____________________________
Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/17/2008 11:35:32 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2997
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
manipulation is never a good thing. but neither is complete and total transparency.
For the life of me I cannot think of any reason to not be totally transparent with your spouse. I agree with Psalms. If you can't be transparent, don't get married.
was jonO disagreeing with me?
Yep. I trimmed it down to just the exact point. While manipulation is never a good thing (unless you're a chiropractor) transparency is always a good thing, even an essential thing
..
i think that is a little credulous, Surrounded by denial, sometimes promoting suppression, and perhaps an unfair expectation to put someone who is at least trying.
you said transparency is always a good thing, and I believe that is naive, and in some instances even bad advice.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 12:08:42 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8040
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Yep. I trimmed it down to just the exact point. While manipulation is never a good thing (unless you're a chiropractor) transparency is always a good thing, even an essential thing
So, what does a totally transparent man say to his wife, who's getting a bit pleasantly plump, when she asks "hon, does my butt look fat in this?"
1) it must be done when she is just starting to put on the weight. You cannot wait until the extra tonnage is already aboard, else it is your fault.
2) you must keep yourself from toting extra tonnage
3) If you have done #s 1 and 2 You respond "Sorry, sweetheart but that outfit is not flattering at this point. I want you to look your absolute best and I think we can do better with a different outfit"
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 12:11:54 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8040
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
i think that is a little credulous, Surrounded by denial, sometimes promoting suppression, and perhaps an unfair expectation to put someone who is at least trying.
you said transparency is always a good thing, and I believe that is naive, and in some instances even bad advice.
So what lies do you tell your loved ones? Why are you afraid of telling them the truth? 
The truth is ALWAYS the best policy. Not only that but we are COMMANDED to tell it. Thou Shalt Not Lie!
If you tell the truth and they do not receive it well, then one of two things will happen. They will dump you (but would you want to be with someone that you have to lie to to keep anyway?) or they will grow. Either way you win.
If you lie, you'll just have to tell the truth someday anyway and then you'll be busted for lying to them and the end will be worse for you both. The truth ALWAYS comes out.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 12:33:34 AM
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Jess_M
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Having an agenda implies there is something we want. If there is something we want in a relationship, it would be up to us to make that known, and if we don't, then it's our own fault. Not that saying I want something will automatically make it happen, but at least it's out there in the open.
Regarding the discussion about honesty and transparency, I had a very good friend whose (now ex) husband wanted to know some rather personal information about her from before they ever knew each other. It was from another life, before she was saved, and she is a completely different person now. She was completely transparent and told him what he wanted to know. Her husband's spirit was completely crushed and he just couldn't deal with it, and they ended up separated and then divorced. She said if she had it to do over again, she would have not told him. There are times when discretion needs to be used, and maybe it's better to withhold some things.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 12:47:54 AM
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John_O
Posts: 8040
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess_M
Regarding the discussion about honesty and transparency, I had a very good friend whose (now ex) husband wanted to know some rather personal information about her from before they ever knew each other. It was from another life, before she was saved, and she is a completely different person now. She was completely transparent and told him what he wanted to know. Her husband's spirit was completely crushed and he just couldn't deal with it, and they ended up separated and then divorced. She said if she had it to do over again, she would have not told him. There are times when discretion needs to be used, and maybe it's better to withhold some things.
So she was supposed to lie to him? If they separated over this then the fault is his. She did what she is supposed to do.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 12:54:44 AM
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jesuschick247
Posts: 2886
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess_M
Regarding the discussion about honesty and transparency, I had a very good friend whose (now ex) husband wanted to know some rather personal information about her from before they ever knew each other. It was from another life, before she was saved, and she is a completely different person now. She was completely transparent and told him what he wanted to know. Her husband's spirit was completely crushed and he just couldn't deal with it, and they ended up separated and then divorced. She said if she had it to do over again, she would have not told him. There are times when discretion needs to be used, and maybe it's better to withhold some things.
So she was supposed to lie to him? If they separated over this then the fault is his. She did what she is supposed to do.
I have to agree with John_O on this one. Although, if this is about what I think this is about, I would like to know that about my future husband before we get married. And, even if they have messed up, God has forgiven them...so why shouldn't we? Especially if they are trying their best to follow His will and plan for their life now!
_____________________________
"The memories erased...Baby, that's the BEAUTY of GRACE!"
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, rather than a second-rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 1:05:27 AM
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Jess_M
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Joined: 6/30/2008
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Your thinking is very black and white. If I had been in her shoes, I would not have disclosed the information. He didn't need to know and he was out of line in asking what he did. He crossed over the line of decency and placed her in a very awkward situation. Honesty is important, but there are some topics that are best left untouched, and unanswered if asked.
We should probably get back to the topic of this thread, hmm?
Hiding what our expectations are with our current relationship can set it up for failure if we end up disappointed that our expectations were not met. Nobody should expect another person to read their minds.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 1:09:36 AM
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jesuschick247
Posts: 2886
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess_M
Your thinking is very black and white. If I had been in her shoes, I would not have disclosed the information. He didn't need to know and he was out of line in asking what he did. He crossed over the line of decency and placed her in a very awkward situation. Honesty is important, but there are some topics that are best left untouched, and unanswered if asked.
We should probably get back to the topic of this thread, hmm?
Hiding what our expectations are with our current relationship can set it up for failure if we end up disappointed that our expectations were not met. Nobody should expect another person to read their minds.
Yeah, I do tend to see things in black and white, just how I am. My friends know that if they ask my opinion or want to know about something, that I will tell them, whether they like the truth or not. I have learned to do it tactfully though!
And true we should NEVER expect someone to read our minds! Although, I kind of have the feeling that sometimes people would rather I DIDN'T voice my thoughts so much...
_____________________________
"The memories erased...Baby, that's the BEAUTY of GRACE!"
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, rather than a second-rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 1:13:31 AM
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Jess_M
Posts: 24
Joined: 6/30/2008
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LOL jesuschick247
quote:
I kind of have the feeling that sometimes people would rather I DIDN'T voice my thoughts so much...
me too
My comment was actually directed toward John_O. He seems pretty high strung.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 1:16:48 AM
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jesuschick247
Posts: 2886
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess_M
LOL jesuschick247
quote:
I kind of have the feeling that sometimes people would rather I DIDN'T voice my thoughts so much...
me too
My comment was actually directed toward John_O. He seems pretty high strung.
LOL! (*whispers* That's because I think he is! *sneaks out the door before John_O comes back in*)
_____________________________
"The memories erased...Baby, that's the BEAUTY of GRACE!"
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, rather than a second-rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 7:43:33 AM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3282
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I don't think what Makarizo and I were saying is about being dishonest or deceitful. I honestly have no clue what he's saying, lol, but for me, I think discretion might be the right word to say it.
Let's say that you've just gotten a big promotion and you're feeling on top of the world, and you're ready to celebrate. You come home to a crying wife who just got fired. What do you do? Would you be dishonest to forgo showing your jubilant feelings and instead show some emphathy for her? That's what I mean by not being completely transparent. YOu can always tell people about the facts, but at times, you have to wait for the proper time to display or divulge the inner workings of your heart and mind. That's called wisdom. There is a proper time for everything. It's not dishonest. Relationships are fragile, and being completely honest about everything that you feel at every given moment would make a lot of relationships fall apart.
_____________________________
Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 7:51:46 AM
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twinkly
Posts: 408
Joined: 6/21/2008
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HAHAHA! John O SEEMS pretty high strung? I am not sure if high strung is the word for it, but he is SOMETHING sometimes... Thus my HUGE bottle of Tylenol kept right here by my desk 
I agree with John O as I think my statements reflect. And having unconditional love when a spouse is dying? I think that is a little different. I, as a human being and child of God would even care for my exhusband if he was dying and I do not have one ounce of love left in my body for him after the things he did. BUT, if he were dying? I'd help to care for him, yes I would. Would he do the same for me? Probably not.
If you can't be honest about something there is a problem.
When at one point in our marriage when I was very low and very depressed with the state of things I started gaining weight, my ex never said anything to me. Instead, he stopped sleeping with me and started saying snide things like "people who are fat and disgusting and out of control", things like that. Instead of saying, "gosh honey, this is not like you, what can I do to help?" Or "let's join a gym together" I even tried to get him to join with me but he brushed it off. I would rather he had been honest in the way John O was saying than being cruel with snide remarks and not say anything constructive.
So, yes, I believe you have to have complete honesty. And if a partner wants to know something about your past (which if they know there is a past they must know there is stuff to share) than you can choose to tell them or not. You could say "that is my past and far behind me. I really don't want to go back to that time in my life. Christ has forgiven me and I have moved on from it and I would like you to respect that" or you can sit down and tell them what they want to know. If they are not ok with the first answer and really wish to know, I think you should tell them. There were some things from my past I was not overly proud of. I was not asked nor did he have any inkling because he was not around when I was that age, so he to this day still does not know these things. BUT, had he wanted to know or had he asked I would have handled it as I stated above.
I don't think transparency necessarily means divulging every single thing from your past to a partner who did not even have a clue who you were back then. BUT, something I might and would want to know from one's past is if they had been divorced before, I'd want to know what went wrong in the marriage and what part BOTH OF THEM played in it. I would not want a repeat marriage of what he had the first time. KWIM?
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 9:03:19 AM
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twinkly
Posts: 408
Joined: 6/21/2008
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Prairie, I hear ya on that one! It pains me to agree with him, but lately I have had to here and there.
Want to see me disagreeing with him? hop on over to my thread "why do men do this" on the men only side... LOL
Where's that darn bottle of Tylenol...
_____________________________
Our bodies are the temple of the Lord, let us starting treating them as such!
Come and join the 2009 BODY REVIVAL thread!
http://forums.crosswalk.com/fb.aspx?m=4073599
The Body Revival recipe thread is in the "Home and Garden" forum
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 9:20:55 AM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 493
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Wyoming
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
i think that is a little credulous, Surrounded by denial, sometimes promoting suppression, and perhaps an unfair expectation to put someone who is at least trying.
you said transparency is always a good thing, and I believe that is naive, and in some instances even bad advice.
So what lies do you tell your loved ones? Why are you afraid of telling them the truth?
The truth is ALWAYS the best policy. Not only that but we are COMMANDED to tell it. Thou Shalt Not Lie!
If you tell the truth and they do not receive it well, then one of two things will happen. They will dump you (but would you want to be with someone that you have to lie to to keep anyway?) or they will grow. Either way you win.
If you lie, you'll just have to tell the truth someday anyway and then you'll be busted for lying to them and the end will be worse for you both. The truth ALWAYS comes out.
Ok I have to admit something here, I didn't out right Lie to my Mom but I did deflect/avoid her direct question.
I was deployed overseas in a War Zone and she asked if I was doing well and not in any danger? <grumbles>
I replied back, "I am doing fine Mom and I'm not in any danger." Yes, I was frolicing in the grey area on that one, I chose to interpret her question as, "Son, are you in danger currently?"
My Dad spoke to me after her and said, "Son, what is the story?" So I told him the truth, I had been under fire and was safe now.
His reply was, "Don't tell your Mother, I won't." Now, this is the First time in my Life I have ever known my Dad to NOT tell my Mom something. To this day I don't think he has told her....I Certainly haven't.
<Looks Ashamed><hangs head>.
_____________________________
Faith is not Believing God Can -
It is Knowing that He Will
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 10:56:28 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8040
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess_M
Your thinking is very black and white. If I had been in her shoes, I would not have disclosed the information. He didn't need to know and he was out of line in asking what he did. He crossed over the line of decency and placed her in a very awkward situation. Honesty is important, but there are some topics that are best left untouched, and unanswered if asked.
We should probably get back to the topic of this thread, hmm?
If your spouse asks you a question, and you do not answer truthfully, you ahve introduced a hidden agenda into your relationship. For the rest of your life you will have to defend that one little lie, building an ediface of lies upon lies just to hide that one fact which you don't think they need to know.
It's just not the smart way to do it. You are far better just answering teh question. Marriage is until death do us part. If he was concerned about that issue he should have asked about it before the marriage. She is blameless.
quote:
Hiding what our expectations are with our current relationship can set it up for failure if we end up disappointed that our expectations were not met. Nobody should expect another person to read their minds.
Exactly correct
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 10:57:30 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8040
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jess_M
My comment was actually directed toward John_O. He seems pretty high strung.
I'm actually incredibly laid back. I'm just passionate about the truth
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/18/2008 11:00:31 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8040
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
but for me, I think discretion might be the right word to say it.
Let's say that you've just gotten a big promotion and you're feeling on top of the world, and you're ready to celebrate. You come home to a crying wife who just got fired. What do you do? Would you be dishonest to forgo showing your jubilant feelings and instead show some emphathy for her? That's what I mean by not being completely transparent. YOu can always tell people about the facts, but at times, you have to wait for the proper time to display or divulge the inner workings of your heart and mind. That's called wisdom. There is a proper time for everything. It's not dishonest. Relationships are fragile, and being completely honest about everything that you feel at every given moment would make a lot of relationships fall apart.
Discretion and timing is important. But you can practice discretion and have perfect timing and still be totally transparent
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Hidden Agendas in Relationships - 11/19/2008 1:46:02 AM
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SamsonUSA
Posts: 1055
Joined: 10/5/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Yep. I trimmed it down to just the exact point. While manipulation is never a good thing (unless you're a chiropractor) transparency is always a good thing, even an essential thing
So, what does a totally transparent man say to his wife, who's getting a bit pleasantly plump, when she asks "hon, does my butt look fat in this?"
He says " No, honey your just fine. But when you outgrow those shorts may I use them as a car cover?"
Or better yet " When the Psalmist said " Abundance of peace till the moon is no more " I didn't think it was in reference to your hind end" Then you duck!
_____________________________
Knowledge humbles great men, astonishes the common man, and puffs up the little man
Chubby babies rock!
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