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I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 7:14:16 AM
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humbleinspirit
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This question is principally for the ladies, although men are free comment on this too. Is it wrong to have conversations/date women if you do not have any intention of persuing a relationship or marriage?
I have chatted with people in the past and sometimes even visited them but didn't necessarially want to pursue a relationship per say. Is it better not to have communication at all, or just let them know that you are not interested in a relationship instead?
I find this all to be kinda tricky sometimes because I value the friendships that I have and do not want to upset the apple cart at all. I guess somehow I hope that women would know where I stand, but I do not know.
What do you think? Thank you in advance for your responses.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 8:55:52 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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Mike, here's my personal opinion.
It is impossible and silly to restrict your friendships to only men just to keep from "leading" someone on. After all, one of the best ways to discover that you want to deepen a relationship with a person of the opposite gender is to already be friends with them and have several conversations and some interests in common.
For me, I know that I have to be careful not to read into a man's attentions more than what is on the surface. I haven't had to worry about this in several years, but when I have had the opportunity, I found that if I was interested in the guy, I had to be really careful not to try to imagine that some little thing (like a platonic hug at church, or singling me out for conversation) meant more than it did. Ladies, it's so very important that we stop doing this kind of immature fantasy. Guys are very much on the surface. If they mean something, you'll know. If they don't, they just don't. If you want it to mean something and they haven't said that it does, it's sinful for you to consider it more. Quit blaming the guys and be responsible--if after a time he has not mentioned an interest, then grow up and leave him alone...move on or discipline yourself to be content in what little relationship you have with him.
As far as dating goes I think that guys can communicate something they don't mean unintentionally. If you "ask" a lady out...say, suggest that you have lunch or coffee or whatever, and out of kindness you pick her up at her door, pay for her meal or coffee, and drop her off after some good conversation, you may have communicated to her that you have an interest in more than friendship. The reason is that all those actions are culturally programmed into us that they mean "I like you more than friendship".
How do you fix that? Well, you do the same things ladies do when they go out together as friends. In general they agree to meet somewhere rather than one picking the other up, and they go dutch.
I would also suggest that guys need to be more courageous. If you value your friendship with a lady but you have no intention of the relationship growing past that, you should say so. Exactly like that. "I value your friendship but in order to keep everything open and honest, I need to let you know in Christian love that I don't think we are called to be together in a more intimate way." Then be willing to accept the consequences. If she's not interested in friendship with you that has no potential to grow, then you've done the chivalrous thing and released her to move on to other relationships that might have more potential. It's a selfless act and therefore pleasing to Christ. If, on the other hand, she's fine with it, then you've cleared the air to continue the friendship.
Courage. Responsibility. Putting the needs of the other person first.
Scripturally indefensible. That's the way I like it.
shallbe
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 9:03:59 AM
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humbleinspirit
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Thanks Shallbe, you gave me some things to think about. Now that thing about taking a lady out, picking her up at her door, paying her bill, etc. strikes me as showing interest. I do like the idea of just meeting someplace, and/or just hanging out too, something that doesn't really happen in my circles much at all.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 9:27:04 AM
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sunluvingirl
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quote:
As far as dating goes I think that guys can communicate something they don't mean unintentionally. If you "ask" a lady out...say, suggest that you have lunch or coffee or whatever, and out of kindness you pick her up at her door, pay for her meal or coffee, and drop her off after some good conversation, you may have communicated to her that you have an interest in more than friendship. The reason is that all those actions are culturally programmed into us that they mean "I like you more than friendship".
Very true!
quote:
I would also suggest that guys need to be more courageous. If you value your friendship with a lady but you have no intention of the relationship growing past that, you should say so. Exactly like that. "I value your friendship but in order to keep everything open and honest, I need to let you know in Christian love that I don't think we are called to be together in a more intimate way." Then be willing to accept the consequences. If she's not interested in friendship with you that has no potential to grow, then you've done the chivalrous thing and released her to move on to other relationships that might have more potential. It's a selfless act and therefore pleasing to Christ. If, on the other hand, she's fine with it, then you've cleared the air to continue the friendship
THAT is a VERY good point! Whether they value the friendship or not, in the end, the lady will have WAY more respect for the guy if he is brave enough to come out and say that.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 9:52:49 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
As far as dating goes I think that guys can communicate something they don't mean unintentionally. If you "ask" a lady out...say, suggest that you have lunch or coffee or whatever, and out of kindness you pick her up at her door, pay for her meal or coffee, and drop her off after some good conversation, you may have communicated to her that you have an interest in more than friendship. The reason is that all those actions are culturally programmed into us that they mean "I like you more than friendship".
How do you fix that? Well, you do the same things ladies do when they go out together as friends. In general they agree to meet somewhere rather than one picking the other up, and they go dutch. Well fiddle. Mike I was going to respond to your OP in my own words, but I'll just quote ShallBe.
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I guess somehow I hope that women would know where I stand, but I do not know. quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
I would also suggest that guys need to be more courageous. If you value your friendship with a lady but you have no intention of the relationship growing past that, you should say so. Exactly like that. "I value your friendship but in order to keep everything open and honest, I need to let you know in Christian love that I don't think we are called to be together in a more intimate way." Then be willing to accept the consequences. If she's not interested in friendship with you that has no potential to grow, then you've done the chivalrous thing and released her to move on to other relationships that might have more potential. It's a selfless act and therefore pleasing to Christ. If, on the other hand, she's fine with it, then you've cleared the air to continue the friendship. I especially wanted to emphasize this.
Please don't hope and don't guess that a woman knows where you stand regarding her. Make sure. Be definite. The only way a woman is going to know how you define y'all's relationship (platonic vs. romantic) is if she hears it directly from you.
If you travel to meet a woman, make sure she knows ahead of time what kind of visit it will be.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I may have said it before somewhere in these threads, but I think here is a good place to repeat it.
Several years ago, I was very interested in a friend of mine. He figured that out; and so one day invited me over to his house for tea. While we were drinking our tea, and before we had really gotten into any type of a conversation, he looked me right in my eyes and said "Sharon-Marie, you are a very good friend. I need you to know that I am only interested in you as a friend and that nothing else is ever going to develop between us."
Yes, I was shocked (and I certainly didn't stay long after he said that). LOL
Yes, I was embarrassed and hurt . . . but only briefly.
My respect for him, however, soared because of what he said and how he handled the situation.
He's married now, and has a toddler son. He's moved away from the area, but we still keep in touch via email; and when he was back here, I had him and his wife (no baby yet, back then) over for dinner.
Had he not been straightforward with me, I would probably have ended up being hurt much much MUCH worse and the hurt would have been a deeper cut, as well.
Instead, he realized that I had feelings for him that he would not be able to return and he took care of "that" promptly and with much kindness and definitely much honestly. What he did, was in fact, a very loving thing.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 9:58:29 AM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
Please don't hope and don't guess that a woman knows where you stand regarding her. Make sure. Be definite. The only way a woman is going to know how you define y'all's relationship (platonic vs. romantic) is if she hears it directly from you.
Now thats the hard part. Just when, how to you bring it up? How do you know either way?
quote:
My respect for him, however, soared because of what he said and how he handled the situation.
I have lost respect of at least one woman for not being upfront and beating around the bush.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:30:53 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunluvingirl
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: sunluvingirl
THAT is a VERY good point! Whether they value the friendship or not, in the end, the lady will have WAY more respect for the guy if he is brave enough to come out and say that. We were crossposting . . . but see, Mike?!  Women respect men who are honest and straightforward. It speaks of highly of the man's integrity.
Lol, point proven!!
LOL! Yep. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
quote:
Please don't hope and don't guess that a woman knows where you stand regarding her. Make sure. Be definite. The only way a woman is going to know how you define y'all's relationship (platonic vs. romantic) is if she hears it directly from you.
Now thats the hard part. Just when, how to you bring it up? How do you know either way? As early as possible; especially if you have even the slightest inkling that y'all are not on the same page, so-to-speak, regarding the nature of y'all's relationship. And if you were wrong about how you perceived her feelings to be? Well, then, y'all can both breathe a sigh of relief and have a good laugh over it. 
How to bring it up? With intent and purpose.
I think what my friend did was excellent.
He invited me to his home (somewhere private so the conversation would not be overheard by anyone else).
He was very hospitable (tea and homemade cookies).
He showed me that he cared for me as a human being and as a friend.
And he came right to the point.
He didn't sugarcoat it and neither was he demeaning.
He stated facts.
Unwaivering and unapologetically (to have someone apologize for not being interested in someone just adds insult to injury).
After he said what he did, he then stopped talking.
There was a few minutes of silence between us while I digested what he said.
And he was absolutely ok with the silence.
By the way, I really appreciated that, as well. If he had continued talking after that, it would have degraded the situation.
After a few moments, I said, "I think it's time for me to leave."
He said something along the lines of "ok."
He helped me put my coat on, walked me to the door, opened it and then thanked me for coming over.
That was pretty much it. The next time I saw him was a few days later at church.
It took a couple of weeks for me to recover; but during that time, he gave me my space. When I was ready to resume our friendship, we picked it up and went on. We have never spoken to each other about that particular day . . . there simply wasn't any need to discuss it.
He did what he had to do; and not only did he do it with great integrity, he also did it in a way that left me with my dignity intact.
As you can tell, it made quite an impression on me; it's been over 7 years ago; and yet, I remember it very clearly. I also remember it very fondly and with smiles . . . and each time I think about it, I am reminded of what a man of God my friend truly is.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:36:50 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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I would also add . . . given who my friend was and is . . . I'm quite very sure he spent time in prayer about the entire situation before even inviting me over; and I'm also quite very sure that he covered our time together that afternoon in prayer as well.
Our Lord's Wisdom and Guidance will never lead a person wrong. Always seek those two things in any situation; and always cover any situation in prayer.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:40:08 AM
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humbleinspirit
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Thanks for the comments Sharon-Marie, now just one other thing, don't women pick up subtle hints that one might not be interested as well?
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:43:30 AM
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stimulus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
How to bring it up? With intent and purpose.
I think what my friend did was excellent.
He invited me to his home (somewhere private so the conversation would not be overheard by anyone else).
He was very hospitable (tea and homemade cookies).
He showed me that he cared for me as a human being and as a friend.
I think it's great that your friend told you how he felt, but I personally would have preferred a quick conversation in the church parking lot or something less "intimate" than tea and homemade cookies in his home. Did he frequently invite you over, alone? A guy who frequently invites a girl to his house for private conversation but only wants to be friends IS leading her on, IMO.
If that was one of only a few times (or the only time) he invited you to his home, I really think a quick conversation after church or some other time would have been better. Why build up your expectations for a great evening together, only to tell you he doesn't have feelings for you?
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:44:10 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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Mike, please do not rely on a woman picking up a hint.
Absolutely do not; do not; do not!
Hints are some of the biggest miscommunications there ever were. Sometimes people misread hints; sometimes people don't even see the hints at all.
Hints are not direct communication.
Hints are also totally opposite of what the posts in this thread have been suggesting.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:45:05 AM
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Prairiehiker
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I think what makes it hard is because these friendships that you have are conducted online. Could it possible that you are hoping that you were interested in them before meeting them in person? Or could it also be possible that you like the attention of these women that you intentionally not let them know that you're not interested in them romantically. I know a lot of men who do that because they need a back up plan, or a calendar filler, so they keep being vague about the nature of their relationships with some women.
Having many male friends in the past, I make it very clear where I stand very early on. I don't go into long conversation about it. I just make an extra emphasis on being "just friends" or just a "brother". My hiking partner was one guy that I was somewhat unsure of. I knew he was interested, but every time he took one of our outings as a date, I run for the hills. But I enjoyed his company so I really wasn't suare if I was interested or not. HOwever, I never gave any indication that I was interested. I was friendly but maintained my distance. I treated him with utmost respect but with a lot of sisterly love as well. I don't know if he misconstrued my actions but he never pushed either. He was just a solid friend though and through. He would drop anything for me. But in the end, the respect that i showed him was enough to build a solid foundation for a lasting friendship. He moved away and I miss him...like a brother.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:49:20 AM
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humbleinspirit
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The online thing is another dynamic. If a woman has said to another "just a friend" or anything of that nature, should it just be taken as that and not worry about things? Or does the between the lines thing confuse things instead?
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:56:05 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stimulus
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
How to bring it up? With intent and purpose.
I think what my friend did was excellent.
He invited me to his home (somewhere private so the conversation would not be overheard by anyone else).
He was very hospitable (tea and homemade cookies).
He showed me that he cared for me as a human being and as a friend.
I think it's great that your friend told you how he felt, but I personally would have preferred a quick conversation in the church parking lot or something less "intimate" than tea and homemade cookies in his home. Did he frequently invite you over, alone? A guy who frequently invites a girl to his house for private conversation but only wants to be friends IS leading her on, IMO.
If that was one of only a few times (or the only time) he invited you to his home, I really think a quick conversation after church or some other time would have been better. Why build up your expectations for a great evening together, only to tell you he doesn't have feelings for you?
He didn't build up my expectations of a great evening together. He called me up and asked me if I had some time; and if so, could I come over for a bit because he had something he wanted to tell me. He didn't say it in a manner that led me to think that he was going to return my interest. Actually, I didn't ponder one way or another what it was he was going to say to me. I find that a dangerous thing to do in any circumstance - and frankly a complete waste of mental energy.
Incidentally, it was in the early afternoon that he invited me over; not in the evening.
As to the homemade cookies, he was always baking; it's who he is . . . and he's also always very hospitable.
I would definitely not have preferred a parking lot conversation; that seems beyond cold to me.
And no, he did not frequently invite me over to his place. That was the 2nd time I had ever been there. The first time was also a short visit and the reason for such was a quite practical manner.
And no, he never once led me on; the entire time I was interested in him - never did I feel as if he was interested in me as well. But apparently, I wasn't as subtle with my feelings as I thought I had been, and he decided he needed to address that. And I think the way he did it was absolutely best way.
As to a man and a woman being along in a house together . . . I don't see anything wrong with that. I've been alone with men in their houses and in mine, for a variety of reasons. People can think what they want.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:56:23 AM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
The online thing is another dynamic. If a woman has said to another "just a friend" or anything of that nature, should it just be taken as that and not worry about things? Or does the between the lines thing confuse things instead?
I don't know. It depends on the women in question. For me, just mention the word "friend" once and I get the point. I will not refer to anyone I'm interested in as "just a friend". There's only one time in my life that I used the word "friends" to describe the nature of my relationship with someone the I was hoping to be in a romantic relationship with. But it was with someone I had previously dated so, when we stopped dating, I referred to him as just a friend. Big mistake! lol.
I think if you're constantly being misunderstood, then maybe it's not just your choice of words, but how you communicate with them in general. .
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 10:59:19 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
The online thing is another dynamic. If a woman has said to another "just a friend" or anything of that nature, should it just be taken as that and not worry about things? Or does the between the lines thing confuse things instead?
That's where people need to take responsibility for themselves. Lines get blurred when people are not completely honest or when they are playing goofy games that do not need to be played.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 11:00:35 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
I think if you're constantly being misunderstood, then maybe it's not just your choice of words, but how you communicate with them in general. . Very good point.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 11:02:03 AM
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humbleinspirit
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I do not think I am constantly being misunderstood, but I just wonder if you chat with someone on Instant Messenger for example if that constitutes insterest?
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 11:13:02 AM
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Prairiehiker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I do not think I am constantly being misunderstood, but I just wonder if you chat with someone on Instant Messenger for example if that constitutes insterest?
NOPE. Though I don't do chats anymore, in the past when I did, I can say that there's only one man that I chatted with that I was interested in. The rest were just friends. But then, I'm not everyone, so, it all depends on who you're chatting with. Be sensitive and discerning. If anything, if you're truly not interested, start all your sentences with "my friend...", lol....like, "my friend, it's so good to talk to you", " my friend, how are you?", lol. That way, it'll sink in.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 11:14:21 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I do not think I am constantly being misunderstood, but I just wonder if you chat with someone on Instant Messenger for example if that constitutes insterest?
It depends on what the two people involved in an IM conversation perceive it to be.
Are the women you're IMing with constantly talking and/or posting in threads about wanting to get married or be in a relationship with a man? Then chances are, you may be a "prospect" in their eyes. (Or not. Again, it depends on the individual woman).
Mike, you can ask questions in this thread; and all you're going to get is people's opinions of a general situation. Unless the women in this thread are some of the women you've been IMing with, you're not going to know the specific answers unless you ask the specific women.
It seems as if you're not happy with some of our answers, so you're rephrasing the questions in hopes of hearing something that will be easier for you to hear.
Hints to women are not going to do it.
Hoping and guessing that a women knows how you feel or don't feel is not going to do it.
Wondering if they know is not going to do it.
If you want to know what a specific woman thinks of your IMing with her, then ask HER specifically.
If you are not interested in a specific woman, but you have frequent communication with her, you owe it to her and to yourself to be straightforward honest. Otherwise, you're playing a very emotionally dangerous game.
That's about as blunt as I can be.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 11:47:21 AM
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Prairiehiker
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Mike, I agree with WhiteRose. If you're talking frequently with someone and you're getting the feeling that they're reading more into it, then, you better clarify things with them.
I change my position on emphasizing the "friends" aspect of the relationship. A lot of people view being friends as a very good start to a relationship so letting them know you're only friends can still mislead them if they are bent of reading into every thing you say. Just be honest with them and with yourself as well. At times, when we're not sure how we feel, or when we're lonely for companionship, we do tend to mislead.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 12:17:09 PM
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SamsonUSA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
This question is principally for the ladies, although men are free comment on this too. Is it wrong to have conversations/date women if you do not have any intention of persuing a relationship or marriage?
I have chatted with people in the past and sometimes even visited them but didn't necessarially want to pursue a relationship per say. Is it better not to have communication at all, or just let them know that you are not interested in a relationship instead?
I find this all to be kinda tricky sometimes because I value the friendships that I have and do not want to upset the apple cart at all. I guess somehow I hope that women would know where I stand, but I do not know.
What do you think? Thank you in advance for your responses.
Hey Mike,
Here is a viewpoint from a male perspective and one who tends to receive quite a few PM's.
1) Converse all you like! Just remember to keep the conversation Godly and platonic.
2) While I have dated women in the past " just because they asked " I have seen the errors of my ways. Unless it is a lady friend that you are 100% certain has no romantic interest in you this is one way to hurt someone by possibly leading her on through her eyes.
3)In a later post you mention having gone to visit them. If you go to visit someone you've met online you are basically telling them you are interested in pursuing an interest in them romantically. Period. There is no gray area here in my opinion.
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RE: I Didn't Mean To Lead You On - 11/15/2008 12:26:57 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
you are a very good friend. I need you to know that I am only interested in you as a friend and that nothing else is ever going to develop between us
Ahhhh ... what I like about how he said it, not only was he careful and respectful with his words, was that his words were from his heart and expressing how he felt. He recognized her interest, but didn't put her down. He expessed his feelings on the matter. Very important!
Another very important point: he left her dignity intact.
Something very important in relationships that I have observed, and it's something I personally look for, does he allow others to maintain a level of self esteem, or does he tear it do | | |
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