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People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 4:02:32 AM
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mattj4792
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This really doesn't make much sense to me....
If God loves us so much, how can he possibly sentence anyone to an eternity of pain and misery?
I know he gives us the opportunity to accept him as our savior and we will go to heaven, but still... for ETERNITY? If he loved us infinitely, wouldn't he give us infinite shots?
Plus, some people's lives are harder than others, and it is harder for some people to believe in a God than it is for others.
Why did God even let Satan/Sin enter the world in the first place when he could have abolished it in an instant, and saved Millions of people from hell?
And if we are born into sin, it is basically not our choice to sin or not, we will sin no matter what... so why do we need to ask for forgiveness for something that we cannot help? So we cannot help sinning, but we will go to hell unless we devote our life to Christ?
But I also jjust heard that in the new testament, the word Forever can be translated until the end of the age... soo does that mean people wont stay in hell forever?
< Message edited by mattj4792 -- 11/15/2008 4:10:20 AM >
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 4:53:45 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
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Hell is for eternity.
Now that you know, dont go there. You know the way, dont you? Jesus is the way.
You have been warned in the Bible - so you have no excuse.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 10:24:35 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5800
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
This really doesn't make much sense to me....
If God loves us so much, how can he possibly sentence anyone to an eternity of pain and misery?
Your assumption is incorrect;
(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 3:17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
One is already condemned to Hell for eternity, Through the love of God and the Sacrifice of Christ that one is offered a way of escape.
If one chooses not to Believe in Jesus as the Son of God and Savior it is becalus they love their sins more than they do God (Vs. 19)
So If one ends up in hell then they sentenced themselves to such an end.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 11:24:25 AM
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flyboy2610
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An eternity in hell does seem like an excessive punishment for sin. It seems like receiving the death penalty for jaywalking. But consider that it may not be the offense that lands you there, but the quality and character of the against whom the offense is committed.
If someone attempts to kill someone and fails, they will go to prison for a set number of years. But if they (like John Hinkley) make an attempt on the President, they will spend the rest of their life in federal prison with no possibility of parole. The crime was the same, but the office of the intended victim was different.
Any sin that is committed is ultimately committed against God himself.
And it is God's holy, righteous, and eternal character tha demands an eternal punishment for those sins.
_____________________________
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Red Green
If you're going to live like there's no hell..... you'd better be right.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 2:06:49 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: flyboy2610
And it is God's holy, righteous, and eternal character tha demands an eternal punishment for those sins.
you seem to miss the point that folks put themselves in hell by loving their sins more than the light that was sent into the world to save them from hell.
(Joh 3:18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Joh 3:19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
If a person is drifting in a sea and surely going to drown; if a person throws a rope to them to save them, and they refuse the rope; whose fault is it that they drown?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 2:11:40 PM
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humbleinspirit
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But burning in hell is for a period of time then God will eilliminate hell completely. God does love everyone, but He cannot allow sin to be in heaven. Since we are born sinners, we are already condemmed, unless we accept the ransom that Jesus paid and repent from our sin instead.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 2:15:37 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
But burning in hell is for a period of time then God will eilliminate hell completely.
The Bible does not teach this. Sinners who are judged guilty will be tormented in the lake of fire forever.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 2:33:51 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
But burning in hell is for a period of time then God will eilliminate hell completely.
The Bible does not teach this. Sinners who are judged guilty will be tormented in the lake of fire forever.
And this is the way that I understand the Bible as well. Eternity means Eternity, Never Ending.
I was wrong, I thought that in Revelation it said something about God destroying Hell, but I just reread it and there isn't.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 2:44:11 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
I was wrong, I thought that in Revelation it said something about God destroying Hell, but I just reread it and there isn't.
Well, depending on what translation you're reading, there are multiple words translated as "hell". One of them is the Greek word "hades", which is the realm of the dead. Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire, because there will be no more death other than the eternal death of the lake of fire. From the day of judgement on, no one who is alive will die, and there will be no more need for a place for the dead to go to await judgement (both the righteous and unrighteous dead are in Hades/Sheol), so Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. Since the King James Version translated Hades as Hell, many people get confused and think that the punishment of sinners is temporary because of that. More recent translations (NIV, NASB, ESV, NKJV, etc.) mostly use hades (NLT translates to "the grave").
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 4:28:59 PM
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7OFUS
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Revelation 20:10.And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11.And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away ; and there was found no place for them.
12.And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened : and another book was opened , which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13.And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14.And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15.And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Not just forever, but forever AND ever.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 5:38:16 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 472
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
This really doesn't make much sense to me....
If God loves us so much, how can he possibly sentence anyone to an eternity of pain and misery? I know he gives us the opportunity to accept him as our savior and we will go to heaven, but still... for ETERNITY? If he loved us infinitely, wouldn't he give us infinite shots? Plus, some people's lives are harder than others, and it is harder for some people to believe in a God than it is for others.
Why did God even let Satan/Sin enter the world in the first place when he could have abolished it in an instant, and saved Millions of people from hell?
And if we are born into sin, it is basically not our choice to sin or not, we will sin no matter what... so why do we need to ask for forgiveness for something that we cannot help? So we cannot help sinning, but we will go to hell unless we devote our life to Christ?
But I also just heard that in the new testament, the word Forever can be translated until the end of the age... so does that mean people wont stay in hell forever?
Well seeing that He is Sovereign and makes the rules as to how we are to approach Him, why not? Another thing is us having the opportunity to come into right relationship with Him isn't just about going to heaven (people only go there if they die before Jesus returns). People get many many chances. Christians tell people about the Gospel everyday. People are presented with the Gospel daily. I'm sure there is at least 1 person out there that has heard the Gospel more than once. If he/she refuses to repent and turn to God putting faith in Him, that is not God's fault. The lot in life that we have been born into isn't an excuse either.
As far as being born into sin, not being able to help it, and why we need to ask for forgiveness, this is the deal. No one has to sin. The unbeliever just does whatever pleases them. Even if it is contrary to his or her conscience. People choose to sin. It's just that unbelievers leaning is more toward sin than that of the Christian. As far as asking forgiveness; that is what God wants of us. He wants so to repent and turn to Him in Faith. You gotta realize that Christ died on the Cross for his enemies. God's love for us is so great that He provided the way for us to be in right relationship with Him. If a person doesn't want it that is not God's fault. Sin also cannot go unpunished. God is a just and cannot tolerate sin. Several times He said in scripture that He will by no means let iniquity go unpunished.
With all that being said. There are 3 main views of Hell. Look Here: There Views of Hell 1 and Here: Three Views of Hell 2.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 7:59:32 PM
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turtleman
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Matt, it is not sin that sends a person to hell, it is the rejection of Christ and his sacrifice for us. Rejection is the disease sin is just a symptom of it. God is all loving and wants us to spend eternity with him in heaven. This is why Jesus came to Earth to give us the opportunity to become children of the almighty God. He shed his blood on the cross for us as the perfect atonement for our sins.because of this we do not have to sacrifice animals to cover our sin Jesus's blood obliterrates it entirely. That being said why would a loving God let someone go to hell. He does this because of our free will. During our lives on earth we choose our adress for eternity. It may not seem fair but it is infinitly just. If he gave us infinite shots at salvation what would have been the need for Jesus' sacrifice? After all anyone in hell would leave there in a nanosecond if they could.
_____________________________
just a few simple thoughts
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 8:51:31 PM
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Bluethread
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It is interesting how some people take the term "forever" in one context and interpret it as an immutable term with only one definition and no additional connotations, while at the same time they say the same term in another context has a totally different interpretation that is equally singular and immutable.
As has been pointed out the lake of fire is prepared for the adversary and his angels. I believe those who die in their sins will be burnt up like chaff, as the Scriptures say. Now chaff burns quickly and completely. I believe the idea of eternal torment was expanded to include human beings in an attempt to extort indulgences and frighten people into the kingdom of Adonai.
It is also interesting that some who like to use hell as a tool of evangelism also paint those who say we should do certain things after salvation as fear mongering.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/15/2008 8:55:23 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: turtleman
Matt, it is not sin that sends a person to hell, it is the rejection of Christ and his sacrifice for us.
Romans 5:12
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.
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love.ben
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 9:44:55 AM
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MrFribbles
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If hell's "forever" ends, why won't heaven's? We're more than happy to cover over the "forever"s we're uncomfortable with, but when anyone suggests that if that's true, then our time in Heaven won't last forever, the suggestion has (so far, at least) been ignored.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 2:22:13 PM
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figmentPez
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From: TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
As has been pointed out the lake of fire is prepared for the adversary and his angels. I believe those who die in their sins will be burnt up like chaff, as the Scriptures say. Now chaff burns quickly and completely. I believe the idea of eternal torment was expanded to include human beings in an attempt to extort indulgences and frighten people into the kingdom of Adonai.
Burning chaff is but one of the metaphors used for those who will be eternally punished. There are others:
Matthew 18:21-35 (34-35 quoted)
34"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35"My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart."
The servant in this story owed a debt that was so large there was no possible way for him to pay it off. He was being sentenced to torture for the rest of his life. The debt he owed was a debt he could not pay. Those in the lake of fire will be there until they can repay the debt they owe to God. Since only Christ can repay that debt, and they have rejected Christ, they will be there forever.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 2:51:53 PM
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jbow
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From: Dixie
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I think that the resurrection of the dead, of the wicked and their judgement makes no sense if there isn't an eternal punishment. Why bother with a resurrection and judgement if there is no eternal punishment? Why not just leave them dead?
I think it is because once life is given by God, it cannot die, in the sense of losing conciousness. The soul lives forever and something must be done with it. Those ransomed by Christ spend eternity in glory with God. Those who are not ransomed must be imprisoned because they are rebellious and remain so.
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 3:17:56 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mattj4792
And if we are born into sin, it is basically not our choice to sin or not, we will sin no matter what... so why do we need to ask for forgiveness for something that we cannot help? So we cannot help sinning, but we will go to hell unless we devote our life to Christ?
It is not about being good, or not sinning, it is about having life or not. The wages of sin is death, and dead people we will remain unless we somehow receive the only solution to being dead...and that is life. Christ has already taken away the sins of the world, it is not about sins....it is about life!
1 John 5:11
And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
Hell is for the dead, Heaven is for the living. God does not send anyone to hell, He doesn't have to, we are all headed there already. What God has lovingly done is provide a way for us to escape that certainty, by offering us His Son in whom is life...
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 3:19:03 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17763
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
If hell's "forever" ends, why won't heaven's? We're more than happy to cover over the "forever"s we're uncomfortable with, but when anyone suggests that if that's true, then our time in Heaven won't last forever, the suggestion has (so far, at least) been ignored.
I heard that even that would have an ending point. You knew where Jesus says He will be with you always, even until the end of the age?
_____________________________
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 3:40:22 PM
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Kath
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This thread may not be open for very long, as it is a violation of our Terms of Service 15 to argue against an eternal hell. It is explained further in our Range of Doctrine, under Orthodoxy. One can explain in this thread why there is an eternal hell, but to have a sustained argument against it is a TOS 15 violation. Please keep this in mind as you respond in the thread. Linking to websites that do not believe in an eternal hell are also a violation of our TOS 15.
Sincerely
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 3:46:46 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
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From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
You knew where Jesus says He will be with you always, even until the end of the age?
That's referring to Jesus being with us as long as this earth is around. He is encouraging His followers (then and now) that He'll not let them suffer alone - He will be there with them. It is not referring to the eternal state in any way.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 8:29:24 PM
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Jhud
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Call me skeptical about human nature, but I am of the opinion if hell were one second short of eternity, most of humanity would gladly risk going there so as to indulge in a life of sin; eternal hell is God's gift to recalcitrant human nature.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/16/2008 8:43:41 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 17763
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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I believe that hell is indeed for all eternity with no second chance at all.
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RE: People in hell... for ETERNITY - 11/17/2008 1:16:49 AM
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Ezra
Posts: 1826
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quote:
I believe the idea of eternal torment was expanded to include human beings in an attempt to extort indulgences and frighten people into the kingdom of Adonai.
You seem to have the false notion that eternal Hell was a Catholic invention, just like "purgatory".
But since the Lord Jesus Christ Himself "expanded" the idea of eternal torment to include human beings, you can either believe Him or disbelieve Him. Here is what He said in Matthew 18:8,9:
"Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be CAST INTO EVERLASTING FIRE. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and casit it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be CAST INTO HELL FIRE".
Mark adds the following solemn words of Christ THREE TIMES IN THE SAME PASSAGE, which reveal that the torment of Hell will be indeed eternal (Mk. 9:44,46,48): "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched".
People who refuse to believe in Hell do not understand that if there was no such place (or if it were not eternal, conscious torment), it would have been absolutely unnecessary for the Son of God to die on the Cross for their sins. The fact that He died for our sins and rose again for our justification is reason enough that no sinner should be in Hell. Christ suffered the torments of Hell on our behalf. He "made His soul an offering for sin" (Isa. 53:10).
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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