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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/28/2008 12:55:15 PM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 316
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
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OK, Let this Christian ask the 'former Christian' a question.
Who do you say that Jesus is?
Peter said that He was the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
I say the same. He is the Messiah, the Redeemer, my Saviour, my Lord, my God.
As Jesus told Peter, flesh and blood did not reveal this truth, but the Father who is in heaven.
What I am trying to say to you is that you are looking for evidence that you will not find. We who call ourselves Christians have been brought to the truth by Faith. We do not need to put our fingers in the wounds of Christ to believe in Him.
We cannot give you what you want. Only God can do that. You need to ask Him for the answers. He will give you them if you truly want to hear them.
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/28/2008 1:39:04 PM
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terryjohn
Posts: 469
Joined: 3/23/2007
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The proof is in the eating. That is the pie is only said to be good once it has been tasted. Nevertheless, in hindsight looking back over history, we find that it is truth. Chirst said, blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe, in that while many had seen, heard and touched him they had every reasons to believe but those who heard or read the words of truth and life that were written down by those who heard him have the power to transform lives for the better. These words like the creation of the world create in men clean hearts that they may not only die in peace but more importantly live and live abundant lives full of peace joy and purpose.
I am sorry but intellect is no god. Of all the wise intellegent men who have ever lived none of them have come close to the words of Christ and the impact they have had on men. Intellegence is not the sole perogative of unbelievers.
Scripture reveals the righteousness of God. Hence, it is not about believing anything but simply accepting, loving and thirsting after that righteousness. Many have rejected the bibles authenticity and thrown out the baby with the bath water (His righteousness). Scripture reveals a power and the very person of Chirst and men are debating words.
In the end intellect has nothing to do with it for in the end it is about goodness and love. Can we say we are intelligent and fail to see the love and goodness of God?
How do you measure intelligence? Is it just education? If you can point to an unbeliever who has a PHD I too can point to men who believe and have the same qualifications so what does that say? Do not the truely wise plead ignorance? It may not be very smart to feed and die for the poor but it is good and that is the heart of the issue.
Does intelligence bring peace and happiness? If so, college students should be smarter and not take so many drugs. In the end no one at your funeral cares whether you were intelligent but whether you were good.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/29/2008 1:19:03 PM
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deborlie
Posts: 54
Joined: 8/9/2007
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Gibbin and jmjphe,
You both are a breath of fresh air..........
This is not to undermined the other great answers given here.
Arrows and Paxton, what you both lack, is seeing God's immense love for you.
Yes, .......just for you!
He does care, and so do we.
BJ
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 11/29/2008 1:57:37 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3671
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
unfortunately--- i have found christianity to be rather "illogical"---though true, so please don't let a lack of logic keep you from Jesus---
I think the idea that Christianity is "illogical" comes from those who have not yet spent enough time examining the evidence. Someone may perceive Christianity to be illogical when they have not closely examined the evidence for it, but it is difficult to come to that conclusion after thoroughly investigating the evidence.
quote:
( behold most "truth" seems illogical! we are a collection of atoms! we are not actually "solid" ! seems highly illogical--- none the less---true)
I think this is a great example, because the fact that we are not "solid" is the only logical conclusion we can make after examining the evidence from the the world around us; it would be "illogical" to come to any other conclusion. The perception that it is "illogical" is just that, only a perception. Reality has shown that our general understanding of the atom is the only logical conclusion we can make.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/1/2008 4:14:08 AM
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dwain
Posts: 103
Joined: 3/4/2006
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John 6
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
You have to have faith. If God's promises at first become real to you in small ways,
such as faith as small as a grain of mustard seed, you can experience more as you grow.
For instance, I was going broke one time, no rent money, no food, no job. I had gotten fired for smoking some pot on the job, and wrecking a company car. I was a big fat zero. I called a local ministry (after tuning them in on the radio dial, looking for a rock n' roll song) and asked for prayer. I literally had a job the next day. That really got me interested in God's word. Then I got the message of Christ's love for me- that took like 15 years to sink in! I thought Christianity was a 10 commandment -do them or get punished type thing. It is not. It is about Christ's love for you.
Jesus not only feeds people in the natural with natural bread, He gives those who are spiritually hungry and broken hearted promises beyond what can be seen. You have to have faith, though.
Peace to you 11 arrows
_____________________________
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwainfred/thegoodnewsofjesuschrist/
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwainfred/
Deut. 33:27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/1/2008 10:22:54 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dwain
Jesus not only feeds people in the natural with natural bread, He gives those who are spiritually hungry and broken hearted promises beyond what can be seen. You have to have faith, though.
Peace to you 11 arrows
quote:
He gives those who are spiritually hungry and broken hearted promises beyond what can be seen.
Yes.... but former Christians who converted to Islam listen to this type stuff here, whereas Jesus is just a man, what took me; ....for example 30 Minutes to understand; as I was being delivered;
.....some after 30 years still do not have that clue…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8OXwfBxGU0
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/1/2008 8:32:51 PM
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dwain
Posts: 103
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Maybe 11 hasn't experienced a person who has wanted to be "Christ like" to Him.
Romans 5
[6] For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[7] For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
[8] But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
[9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him
If we were to ask the Barabas who Y'shua died for that day, I think we would be hearing a slightly different story than yours LG.
I am not talking about miracles, I'm talking something similiar as when the church first started some 2000yrs. ago. The small community of believers were sharing according to each's needs. A sort of "redistribution"
of the wealth, specifically among the poor, and outcast. In todays society we could equate, a small simple interest loan, a pre-paid trip to the dentist
or a job opportunity, inspite of a criminal record- those types of things.
There is one sure promise Jesus made, "He that believes in me will never die."
These "organized groups" we have nowadays have admin. costs, they pay
salaries, they have the 501c, and the not-so-sincere have ample room to benefit from the actual disciples and apostles who want only to give hope
not just in this life, but in the one to come.
_____________________________
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwainfred/thegoodnewsofjesuschrist/
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~dwainfred/
Deut. 33:27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/21/2008 2:23:42 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 17
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
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11 Arrows wrote:
quote:
Why would God give us logical minds if he did not want us to use them? If God setting us up to fail? I mean obviously he created our minds in a very specific way. Our minds work off logic. We reason the facts we have in front of them and then make educated, logical decisions based on this info.
So why would God create us with logical minds and then create a religion that doesnt require logic? Sounds to me like he must want us to burn.
You may be thinking logically, but you only have part of the picture. Do you think that you can understand all of history and all of God with YOUR mind? I mean, I'm not saying that you're dumb cuz you're obviously smart, but think about it...you are only one of about 6 billion people on the planet and you have only begun to question these things. So, since you cannot make it all add up logically in YOUR mind, therefore it cannot be proven, so you cannot believe in it. It would take millions of lifetimes to get to the bottom of all the arguments. Jesus said to come unto him like a little child...to have faith like a little child and he will reveal himself to you.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/21/2008 2:39:20 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 17
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
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quote:
What archeological evidence that supports the events in the bible? Ive looked. I didn't find any.
It all depends on who you ask...if you ask a "creation scientist" they will show you evidence of the flood, etc. If you ask most "mainstream" scientists, they will give you evidence and convincing arguments for evolution or whatever pet theory that flies in the face of the Bible.
There seems to be this illusion that scientist are completely neutral, unbiased, open-minded, etc. Oh, that is, EXCEPT for the scientists that are Christians.
Here are a few examples of links to Christian scientists' web sites:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/
http://www.reasons.org/
Of course, what you will accept all depends on your bias. As someone else has said on here, it still comes down to faith. You can explain away any arguments Christians come up with and sound logical, likewise, if you have true faith in God, you can be confronted with all kinds of puzzling evidence and arguments and turn to God with your troubles and keep your faith in Him.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/21/2008 3:02:50 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 17
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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Are you still here, 11 Arrows?
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/21/2008 3:19:05 AM
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OneJohn410
Posts: 1526
Joined: 6/1/2008
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Hi 11arrows,
I cannot give you reasons that you deem logical as to why I know the Bible is God's Word, and is true. Nor can you really pass off 30 years of being a Christian to anger and hurt feelings. That's really known as unforgiveness, and also lack of any desire to mature in your Christian walk. You say thirty years of being a Christian, and only now are you reading and trying to disprove all your belief of that time. That you couldn't answer your basic questions for thirty years. Wow.
The problem with your first question is that you want to hear some say they believe what they know to be true in earthly terms. What you are up against is spiritual (I say up against because that is your choice). I say spiritual because you already know it's not earthly. You are already aware that it is not creation's position to know the workings of God and therefore earthly logic, as given by God, is not going to become knowing of God all by itself.
People don't get mad. Animals can get mad. People get angry. I'm not angry at this first trick question. I find it quite typical, actually. I just wonder if I'll be as surprised at your next question as I was at this one.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 11arrows
Hi All,
I was a Christian for 30 years, but I always had nagging, basic questions. As I began asking people these very basic, almost child like questions, I found that instead of wanting to be helpful and explain things to me in a logical way, they just got mad at me. Eventually this is what caused me to leave Christianity to begin with.
But I still have questions. I am not dogmatic in my beliefs at all. I will give up what I believe and accept your views in a heart beat as long as the information you give me is more logical then the information I already have. In fact, in my opinion, this is the stance that anyone who truly wishes to call themselves an intellectual must take.
So I thought I might come to the most popular internet Christian forum I could find and see if I could get these very basic questions answered, or if people would get mad that I dare ask them to begin with.
My first question is "Why do you believe the Bible is True?"
_____________________________
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. -Romans 15:4 (NIV)
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/21/2008 3:49:25 AM
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WanderingLamb
Posts: 17
Joined: 11/10/2005
From: Western WA, USA
Status: offline
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Phillipians 3:7-12
7.But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
8.What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9.and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.
10.I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
11.and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12.Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
(emphasis mine - KNOWING CHRIST surpasses any other knowledge (scholarly, archaeology, etc)!)
11Arrows asked for evidence:
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for , the evidence of things not seen
(emphasis mine - FAITH is the only evidence you need!!!)
I didn't come to believe in God because someone showed me archaelogical proofs or logical arguments, and I doubt any of the rest of us came to believe in Jesus in that way.
1 Corinthians 2
1.When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.
2.For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.
3.I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling.
4.My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,
5.so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.
(emphasis mine)
< Message edited by WanderingLamb -- 12/21/2008 3:57:38 AM >
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/22/2008 10:07:55 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 699
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: online
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I wont plow through all the posts to see if what i say has already been said, so if it's redundant forgive me. There are no former christians, you either are one, or have never been one. There are no arguments clever enough, or mountains of evidence big enough that will convince anyone to believe, it is a work of the spirit.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/22/2008 10:15:39 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 3671
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
I wont plow through all the posts to see if what i say has already been said, so if it's redundant forgive me. There are no former christians, you either are one, or have never been one. There are no arguments clever enough, or mountains of evidence big enough that will convince anyone to believe, it is a work of the spirit.
That is a very debated question, and the debate is supposed to be in this thread. It is off topic here.
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RE: Former Christian has questions about the Bible - 12/22/2008 10:28:48 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 699
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
I wont plow through all the posts to see if what i say has already been said, so if it's redundant forgive me. There are no former christians, you either are one, or have never been one. There are no arguments clever enough, or mountains of evidence big enough that will convince anyone to believe, it is a work of the spirit.
That is a very debated question, and the debate is supposed to be in this thread. It is off topic here.
Well, that was my 2 cents on the subject,forgive me for not running my post by you first.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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