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RE: romans 7 - 11/18/2008 11:40:10 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 700
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From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
We have that sin nature that always pulls at our flesh to do the things that are contrary to the spirit of Christ that is in us. That is the condition of the Romans chapter 7 Christian, chasbeck1. I am alive in the Spirit, living in accordance with the Spirit, and controlled by the Spirit, by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit. That is living without the sin nature in Romans chapter 8!
drmark, greater men than you or i who were loved and known by God intimately still sinned like it or not. Abraham, David, Jacob, Noah, Moses, Peter and on and on. Not an unbroken pattern of willful sinning, but they did sin from time to time. By the way, someone observing your actions for a day or a week proves nothing, prove it to the one who sees the thoughts and knows the heart. The Word admonishes those who claim to be without sin.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 2:28:17 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chasbeck1
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I study Adonai's Word in its historical and grammatical context, discuss it with others, apply the reason Adonai gave me and ask Adonai to guide me through that process to a proper course of action. In other words, I wrestle with Adonai and refuse to let go until He blesses me.
I would perceive that you are trying to achive perfection through human
effort.
I hope what I have said does not create the conditions in which that perception would happen.
quote:
That is the very reason that Christ died for us. No amount of human effort, can overcome the power of sin. It is only through recieving
the perfect love of Christ in our hearts that we can begin to overcome.
I did say that I ask Adonai to guide me through this process. It might have been more inline with you way of speaking for me to have said, I have faith that Adonai's Spirit will guide me through this process that he has laid out in the Scriptures.
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The apostle Paul states in Philipians, 3:12-13 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected, but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
That is my point. I press on because I do not presume I have attained.
quote:
Don't get caught up in a sin consciousness. What I mean is, don't be so overly concerned with whether your sinning or not, but allow the grace and forgiveness of God to have effect in your life. The Word of God shows us how we should live our
lives on a daily basis. If we do fall short of that, then the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, then we apply 1 John 2:1 and go on from there. Christ is not out to beat us up or condemn us when we fall short, He is there to offer us forgivness. Just as the woman who was caught in adultery, after her accusers left, Jesus said to her, go, and sin no more. We are to recieve His forgivness and learn from our mistakes and go forward. We move on and mature in Spirit and character.
I am not sure what you mean by "overly concerned". However, I do not believe I have an unhealthy fear of Adonai. As I rephrased above, I do allow the grace and forgiveness to effect my life, while His Spirit guides me in studying His word and interacting with Him and His people. I ask these questions not because I am in fear, but because I am trying to understand the ways in which others interact with Adonai, for they profess to have better ways. If their ways are more in line with what Adonai desires, it would be advantagous to adopt their methods.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 10:03:43 AM
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chasbeck1
Posts: 26
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: chasbeck1
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I study Adonai's Word in its historical and grammatical context, discuss it with others, apply the reason Adonai gave me and ask Adonai to guide me through that process to a proper course of action. In other words, I wrestle with Adonai and refuse to let go until He blesses me.
I would perceive that you are trying to achive perfection through human
effort.
I hope what I have said does not create the conditions in which that perception would happen.
quote:
That is the very reason that Christ died for us. No amount of human effort, can overcome the power of sin. It is only through recieving
the perfect love of Christ in our hearts that we can begin to overcome.
I did say that I ask Adonai to guide me through this process. It might have been more inline with you way of speaking for me to have said, I have faith that Adonai's Spirit will guide me through this process that he has laid out in the Scriptures.
quote:
The apostle Paul states in Philipians, 3:12-13 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected, but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
That is my point. I press on because I do not presume I have attained.
quote:
Don't get caught up in a sin consciousness. What I mean is, don't be so overly concerned with whether your sinning or not, but allow the grace and forgiveness of God to have effect in your life. The Word of God shows us how we should live our
lives on a daily basis. If we do fall short of that, then the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin, then we apply 1 John 2:1 and go on from there. Christ is not out to beat us up or condemn us when we fall short, He is there to offer us forgivness. Just as the woman who was caught in adultery, after her accusers left, Jesus said to her, go, and sin no more. We are to recieve His forgivness and learn from our mistakes and go forward. We move on and mature in Spirit and character.
I am not sure what you mean by "overly concerned". However, I do not believe I have an unhealthy fear of Adonai. As I rephrased above, I do allow the grace and forgiveness to effect my life, while His Spirit guides me in studying His word and interacting with Him and His people. I ask these questions not because I am in fear, but because I am trying to understand the ways in which others interact with Adonai, for they profess to have better ways. If their ways are more in line with what Adonai desires, it would be advantagous to adopt their methods.
What I mean by being "overly concerned" is that we should not live with
an unhealthy fear of "Adoni". As you stated, it is not the case with yourself. As I have learned over the years, I observe that some people
equate their relationship with Adoni, as being the same as their earthly father. Sometimes those relationships are very unhealthy, as some fathers cause their children to live in fear of retribution every time they
fall short of their expectaions. If that is the only picture that one has of a
father, then one can see why it would be difficult to live with the freedom
we have under the grace of Jesus Christ. That is why it is so important to read the Word of God every day, and ask His Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth in the Word. We are always growing, learning and maturing in our walk with Him. Sure, we all stumble and fall into sin as we walk this
road of life. But His grace is more than sufficient. As the Apostle Paul stated, in 2 Corinthians, the Lord spoke to him saying that "My Grace is
sufficent for you. As Ephesians 2:8-10 expresses, we recieved the free gift of grace by faith, and that we should walk out our lives doing the good works that Adoni prepared beforehand for us to do. His Grace carry's us.
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 11:27:44 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3062
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quote:
In your opinion, how can one be sure they are living out the sanctifying grace of Adonai? My opinion is worthless! God's Word states that we can draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water (Hebr 10:22). You know that you know, Bluethread, that God's sanctifying grace is perfecting your heart in Christ's Love every day!
quote:
In other words, I wrestle with Adonai and refuse to let go until He blesses me. That's great, so do I! But what does this have to do with "struggling with sin"? The very grace of God blessing me with the indwelling of Christ's love and the power of the Holy Spirit completely removes my struggle with sin as I surrender my will to His Will moment by moment. Praise the Lord for His amazing Grace!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 3:55:31 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chasbeck1
What I mean by being "overly concerned" is that we should not live with
an unhealthy fear of "Adoni". As you stated, it is not the case with yourself. As I have learned over the years, I observe that some people
equate their relationship with Adoni, as being the same as their earthly father. Sometimes those relationships are very unhealthy, as some fathers cause their children to live in fear of retribution every time they
fall short of their expectaions. If that is the only picture that one has of a
father, then one can see why it would be difficult to live with the freedom
we have under the grace of Jesus Christ. That is why it is so important to read the Word of God every day, and ask His Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth in the Word. We are always growing, learning and maturing in our walk with Him. Sure, we all stumble and fall into sin as we walk this
road of life. But His grace is more than sufficient. As the Apostle Paul stated, in 2 Corinthians, the Lord spoke to him saying that "My Grace is
sufficent for you. As Ephesians 2:8-10 expresses, we recieved the free gift of grace by faith, and that we should walk out our lives doing the good works that Adoni prepared beforehand for us to do. His Grace carry's us.
That is pretty much what I am saying. Some seem to disagree with you statement, "Sure, we all stumble and fall into sin as we walk this road of life." I am asking how they justify this disagreement.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 5:09:44 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3062
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quote:
Some seem to disagree with you statement, "Sure, we all stumble and fall into sin as we walk this road of life." I am asking how they justify this disagreement. James 1:14-15 clearly explains the mechanistic pathway of sinful behavior. I see no evidence of "stumbling and falling" in this passage. Sin is a willful and deliberate choice to disobey a known law of God. By His grace and power, I do not sin.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 5:11:01 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
God's Word states that we can draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water (Hebr 10:22). You know that you know, Bluethread, that God's sanctifying grace is perfecting your heart in Christ's Love every day!
Yes, but I am not there yet. Therefore, discussion of romans 7 is a valuable execcise, contrary to the opinion that I first responded to. That being that it is what is stated in romans 7 is so simple that it needds little discussion.
quote:
quote:
In other words, I wrestle with Adonai and refuse to let go until He blesses me. That's great, so do I! But what does this have to do with "struggling with sin"? The very grace of God blessing me with the indwelling of Christ's love and the power of the Holy Spirit completely removes my struggle with sin as I surrender my will to His Will moment by moment. Praise the Lord for His amazing Grace!
This all sounds well and good as long as one talks in general terms. However, there are several things that you have said that can be misunderstood without more clarification.
You said, "You and I have an entirely different definition of 'perfection'." Then without explaining this difference you say, "I willingly 'bet my life' on the perfection of Christ's Love filling my heart every day."
Then regarding the struggle you say, "I do not 'struggle with sin' when I crucify the sinful nature and allow the Holy Spirit to control my thoughts and actions. When I insist on my ability to choose, I will (sooner than later) resume a life of struggle."
These are nice platitudes that almost anyone could agree with, because they can be defined in many different ways. That is why I have been asking for clarification, so that I will know what you believe to be the proper definitions. However, it appears that you do not wish to define these words and phrases in practical terms, can not define them, or the definition is some gnostic secret.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 11/19/2008 5:24:24 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 5:21:50 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3062
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quote:
However, it appears that you do not wish to define these words and phrases in practical terms, can not define them, or the definition is some gnostic secret. Apparently you have some amazing ability to know the hearts of men through analyzing their "nice platitudes" on an electronic discussion board. I am not there yet (nor do I think I ever will be). I will simply close our dialogue with a humble suggestion from one brother to another - spend more time seeking "clarification and proper definitions" from God's Word and less worrying about my potentially "misunderstood generalities".
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 5:42:32 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
However, it appears that you do not wish to define these words and phrases in practical terms, can not define them, or the definition is some gnostic secret.
Apparently you have some amazing ability to know the hearts of men through analyzing their "nice platitudes" on an electronic discussion board. I am not there yet (nor do I think I ever will be). I will simply close our dialogue with a humble suggestion from one brother to another - spend more time seeking "clarification and proper definitions" from God's Word and less worrying about my potentially "misunderstood generalities".
I wasn't presuming your motives. I merely provided the only options that were apparent to me. Since you did more than merely present the Sciptures in the past, I presumed that you were in the habit of drawing conclusions from the Scriptures. Now that I know you prefer to let the Scriptures speak for themselves, I will respond to the Scriptures quoted and not bother with the rest of the post.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 5:54:44 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3062
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quote:
The Word admonishes those who claim to be without sin. Not nearly as often or harshly as It admonishes those who claim to love God while disobeying Him!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 6:30:15 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
The Word admonishes those who claim to be without sin. Not nearly as often or harshly as It admonishes those who claim to love God while disobeying Him!
Is this a refutation? What doers disobeying while professing to love Adonai have to do with claiming to be without sin?
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/19/2008 6:43:05 PM
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chasbeck1
Posts: 26
Joined: 11/18/2008
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Drmark, there is more to James 1:14-15 that the wilfull act of deliberatly
sinning. The inner desire to sin is always a response to outward enticement. Satan is the external source that entices the inward roots of
evil desires that lie within this body of flesh. That is why our so called,
"Being born again expeience, is an ongoing process. That is why Paul states that we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. After
we come to know Christ, we still have this soulish nature that will never
be perfected until Christ who is our perfection returns. That's why 1 John
2:1 was written for use as believers. He says that he writes this so that we
may not sin. But, if anyone does sin we have Jesus Christ who is our advocate with the Father. There is only one who walked this earth who was perfect and that was Christ. We have His Word, His Spirit, and His
promise that he will never leave us or forsake us. That is why we continually make it our goal to seek Him and to please Him in everything
we do.
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RE: romans 7 - 11/20/2008 11:03:27 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3062
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quote:
The inner desire to sin is always a response to outward enticement. Well, chasbeck1, I respectfully disagree. I believe that the "inner desire to sin" comes from the sinful nature that we are all born (perhaps even conceived) with due to the Fall. "Outward enticements" merely provide the setting for willful disobedience. When facing enticement in our own strength, we will likely choose to sin and live in Romans chapter 7. When we are made alive in the Spirit and living under His Authority, we will choose not to sin and live in Romans chapter 8.
quote:
That is why we continually make it our goal to seek Him and to please Him in everything we do. Amen! Isn't it a blessing to live in Romans chapter 8!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/20/2008 11:57:55 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5800
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Amen! Isn't it a blessing to live in Romans chapter 8!
I have found over the years that folks who want to live in Romans Chapter 7 are usually just trying to justify (make excuses) for their pet sin.
It would be a sad thing if Paul had stopped writing at the end of Chapter 7 without explaining to the Saints in Rome that Christ came to deliver us from sin and unto service unto God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/20/2008 1:19:36 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Amen! Isn't it a blessing to live in Romans chapter 8!
I have found over the years that folks who want to live in Romans Chapter 7 are usually just trying to justify (make excuses) for their pet sin.
It would be a sad thing if Paul had stopped writing at the end of Chapter 7 without explaining to the Saints in Rome that Christ came to deliver us from sin and unto service unto God.
Thanks
RC
It isn't necessarily wanting "to live in Romans Chapter 7". For many it is just a recognition of the way things are. Recognition is the first step in the repentance process. Reform can not take place unto one recognizes what is wrong. Living in denial (pun intended) is what we were doing before we left Eygpt and if we don't remind ourselves of how bad that is it will happen again.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/20/2008 4:13:10 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5800
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
It isn't necessarily wanting "to live in Romans Chapter 7". For many it is just a recognition of the way things are. Recognition is the first step in the repentance process. Reform can not take place unto one recognizes what is wrong. Living in denial (pun intended) is what we were doing before we left Eygpt and if we don't remind ourselves of how bad that is it will happen again.
That really seems like a 'Fleshly" attempt at trying to do something that is aSpiritual situation.
(2Co 5:17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
I certainly cannot speak for others, but as for me; my desire to not sin in not based on how bad it used to be, but based on the fact that I am a new creature and my desires have changed and I trust the promises of God, such as;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
And in defense of my statement about folks using Romans 7 as an excuse; that is absolutely the truth as I have heard and read many times on these forums "that since even Paul could not resist sin (as he wrote in Romans 7; then how could they be expected not to sin."
Now that is an excuse to sin in the purest form.
When one reads Romans 6 and 8 then that excuse vaporizes.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/20/2008 4:25:56 PM
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chasbeck1
Posts: 26
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Amen! Isn't it a blessing to live in Romans chapter 8!
I have found over the years that folks who want to live in Romans Chapter 7 are usually just trying to justify (make excuses) for their pet sin.
It would be a sad thing if Paul had stopped writing at the end of Chapter 7 without explaining to the Saints in Rome that Christ came to deliver us from sin and unto service unto God.
Thanks
RC
It isn't necessarily wanting "to live in Romans Chapter 7". For many it is just a recognition of the way things are. Recognition is the first step in the repentance process. Reform can not take place unto one recognizes what is wrong. Living in denial (pun intended) is what we were doing before we left Eygpt and if we don't remind ourselves of how bad that is it will happen again.
I agree bluethread, we should always have the desire to live in Romans 8.
As you stated, many live in chapter 7 because maybe they do not want to give up those,"little pet sins that make the flesh feel good" I think we've all been there and done that, but as we grow in Christ we sooner or later discover that there is pleasure in sin for a season. From that we do reap what we sow. Paul said the wages of sin is death. If we keep feeding that
corrupt nature it will hinder us from becoming what Christ has called us to
be. We have a destiny and purpose in Christ, "Ephesians 2:10 We are His
workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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RE: romans 7 - 11/20/2008 7:56:25 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
And in defense of my statement about folks using Romans 7 as an excuse; that is absolutely the truth as I have heard and read many times on these forums "that since even Paul could not resist sin (as he wrote in Romans 7; then how could they be expected not to sin."
Now that is an excuse to sin in the purest form.
When one reads Romans 6 and 8 then that excuse vaporizes.
Thanks
RC
That is true. However, fear that some may "sin that grace may abound" is not sufficient to create a doctrine that denighs that we live in a sinful world and that there are many sinful influences within and without that try our resolve.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/21/2008 1:09:36 AM
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SamsonUSA
Posts: 1055
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I am glad we agree that one can choose not to sin. As for me I have met a few folks whom I believe in my heart walked in sanctification, though of course they were so humble that they would not discuss it.
Sorry RC but that statement borders on heresy.
_____________________________
Knowledge humbles great men, astonishes the common man, and puffs up the little man
Chubby babies rock!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/21/2008 9:59:01 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I am glad we agree that one can choose not to sin. As for me I have met a few folks whom I believe in my heart walked in sanctification, though of course they were so humble that they would not discuss it.
Sorry RC but that statement borders on heresy.
That we can choose not to sin;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
When temptation comes to a Believer (with Believer being a key word), Scripture promises about that there is a way of escape.
James states that sin begins;
(Jas 1:13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
(Jas 1:14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
(Jas 1:15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
(Jas 1:16) Do not err, my beloved brethren.
So temptation is a thought before it develops into a sin and death. Paul tells us what to do with that thought;
(2Co 10:5) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
So the way of escape from committing sin when the temptation is a thought is to bring that thought into captivity to obedience of Christ; and walla no sin.
The ability for Believers to do this is what Paul refutes the power of sin in Romans 7 with when in the very next verse he says;
(Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(Rom 8:3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(Rom 8:6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
(Rom 8:7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
(Rom 8:8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So I say; Thank you Jesus for not only forgiving our past sins, but for the God given, Spirit driven ability to live a life so as we can be;
(Eph 5:27) That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
And we can do our reasonable service to God which is;
(Rom 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
(Rom 12:2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/21/2008 9:59:23 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11453
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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Moving this thread from The Bible to Christian Doctrine, as it's more about whether a Christian will sin than it is about the Bible.
Thanks!
Tricia
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RE: romans 7 - 11/21/2008 10:30:39 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA
It is true that we have the power through the Holy Spirit to reject temptation. It is not true that by having this power that we will never sin again.
You must have misread my prior posts, I never have claimed that "Sinless Perfection" (The inability to sin) was possible; only that if a Believer sins it is by thier own choice that they do so, and they could have chosen not to sin.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/21/2008 6:00:18 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1669
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: SamsonUSA
It is true that we have the power through the Holy Spirit to reject temptation. It is not true that by having this power that we will never sin again.
You must have misread my prior posts, I never have claimed that "Sinless Perfection" (The inability to sin) was possible; only that if a Believer sins it is by thier own choice that they do so, and they could have chosen not to sin.
Thanks
RC
I think the problem here is symantics. I don't think anyone here is saying we must sin. Now, you say you are not saying the inability to sin is possible. Maybe we are arguing about what not saying rather than lookiing at what we are saying. Could it be that we are saying that even if we can avoid sin, it happens and we must be responsible to avoid it at all costs.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/21/2008 7:30:51 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I think the problem here is symantics. I don't think anyone here is saying we must sin. Now, you say you are not saying the inability to sin is possible. Maybe we are arguing about what not saying rather than lookiing at what we are saying. Could it be that we are saying that even if we can avoid sin, it happens and we must be responsible to avoid it at all costs.
It seems to me that you and others are claiming that one must sin, for why else would one sin against God if they did not have to, that if all they had to do was let Christ that lives in them guide them.
Why would someone jeapordize their relationship with God by choosing to sin when they did not have to?
Unless one was OSAS (5th point Calvinist) or Calvinist, and did not believe that it mattered whether they sinned or not.
Scripture says;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
And one of the things Jesus said was, "Go and sin no more" and he said that on more than one occasion.
So "Go and sin no more" is my goal, and on the rare occasion when I might slip and choose the wrong way I can rely on;
(1Jn 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Becaise the "IF ye sin" is the way we are to live. But if we make provisions for the devil and go the when we sin route it can be dangerous.
And we very well could run up against this little passage;
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
And that would be a sad sad day.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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