RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo terrorist on American soil?
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 7:14:48 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7605
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
We entered a civil war. We did not merely offer supplies and advisers, we lead the military effort and provided enormous air support. This was not a peacekeeping mission.
It really wasn't a 'civil war' as the opposition had all but been eliminated by the Taliban. And I never claimed it was peacekeeping mission; it was the powerbase of the terrorists who attacked us - it really doesn't have to be more than that.
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Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 7:35:16 PM
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henny
Posts: 1166
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: MN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
To give them proper trials, as the law of the land requires (in my opinion).
I doubt it.
What will probably happen (and we should know fairly quickly after Jan.) is that Obama may give a very few some sort of trial, let a few go, and ship the rest off to foreign prisons.
And hope that is sufficient to win the 'good will' of foreign nations he so desires.
This is what Bush was already going to do, and was doing, anyway.
We've already let quite a few go with out trial, and given the recent Supreme court rulings, it's unlikely we could continue to hold them as we have been for much longer.
I don't think Obama will treat the situation much differently than McCain would have if he was elected.
_____________________________
Hell is other Christians.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 8:09:48 PM
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dbark
Posts: 159
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Canada
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Sorry you find it offensive, and these people are different than those in Rawanda. You have no right also to claim I hate these people. The comment about cockroaches and terrorist has to do with, how they are able to hide, and multiply in cell groups. This is a different type of enemy we have never delt with, and Bush and administration are doing the best they can. These people are different even from domestic terrorist. They are dangerous, and evil, sorry if that offends, but the truth is the truth. Their main goal in life is your destruction. There maybe a rare innocent person in gitmo, just as there are innocent people in prison. I doubt 99.9% of these folks are innocent. All you crying tiny tears for them, wasting your time and emotion why not pray for their souls? When you, or your children, or family members, lose their lives think about this thread. If they start sawing off your head like they have done to countless Americans, and Koreans, and Austrains and others, remember this thread. I think Nick Berg, was a supporter of these people, and they sawed of his head while he screamed, and sent it out on the internet. Love your neighbor, that is good, it is Godly, but where did some of you get scripture mixed up ?
where we cannot protect ourselves, as a nation ,and a people? Some of you really are totally mixed up with the whole of scripture, not knowing how to rightly divide the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbark
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
What? I cannot believe that this goes by unoticed by everyone. What is his motivation? We never wanted them on American soil. They are like cock-roaches, sorry if that offends, but they should never be allowed communication with each other.
Yes, that is offensive. These terrorists have done evil, repulsive things, but they are not cockroaches, they are human. The term "cockroach" that you use is the exact term that the Hutus used for Tutsis in Rwanda when they brutally "exterminated" about one million human beings - mostly hacked to death with machetes.
The first step towards being capable of horrible, ungodly violence is to dehumanize your enemies. That's exactly what the Hutus did in the 90's, that's exactly what the Nazis did in the 40's. Be very careful - when you attempt to dehumanize those you hate - the first thing you lose is your own humanity.
We have a right to bring criminals to justice, but we do not have a right to take away their humanity.
Dude ... all I'm saying is that while we have a right to bring criminals to justice, God calls us to love our enemies and pray for them. He calls us to do good to those who hate us. I know, it's counterintuitive, but it's what God calls us to whether it's easy or reasonable or not. Calling people cockroaches is not loving your enemies, it's dehumanizing them.
You seem to not be able to separate the concept of justice and hatred. We can demand justice and see it done without hating those who hate us. Jesus never returned hatred with hatred.
_____________________________
"In seeking wisdom thou art wise; in imagining that thou hast attained it, thou art a fool." ~ Rabbi Ben Azai
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 8:24:28 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3468
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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First, I am the woman, and evidently you do not understand reality. The other thing, when did I return hatered?
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbark
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Sorry you find it offensive, and these people are different than those in Rawanda. You have no right also to claim I hate these people. The comment about cockroaches and terrorist has to do with, how they are able to hide, and multiply in cell groups. This is a different type of enemy we have never delt with, and Bush and administration are doing the best they can. These people are different even from domestic terrorist. They are dangerous, and evil, sorry if that offends, but the truth is the truth. Their main goal in life is your destruction. There maybe a rare innocent person in gitmo, just as there are innocent people in prison. I doubt 99.9% of these folks are innocent. All you crying tiny tears for them, wasting your time and emotion why not pray for their souls? When you, or your children, or family members, lose their lives think about this thread. If they start sawing off your head like they have done to countless Americans, and Koreans, and Austrains and others, remember this thread. I think Nick Berg, was a supporter of these people, and they sawed of his head while he screamed, and sent it out on the internet. Love your neighbor, that is good, it is Godly, but where did some of you get scripture mixed up ?
where we cannot protect ourselves, as a nation ,and a people? Some of you really are totally mixed up with the whole of scripture, not knowing how to rightly divide the word.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbark
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
What? I cannot believe that this goes by unoticed by everyone. What is his motivation? We never wanted them on American soil. They are like cock-roaches, sorry if that offends, but they should never be allowed communication with each other.
Yes, that is offensive. These terrorists have done evil, repulsive things, but they are not cockroaches, they are human. The term "cockroach" that you use is the exact term that the Hutus used for Tutsis in Rwanda when they brutally "exterminated" about one million human beings - mostly hacked to death with machetes.
The first step towards being capable of horrible, ungodly violence is to dehumanize your enemies. That's exactly what the Hutus did in the 90's, that's exactly what the Nazis did in the 40's. Be very careful - when you attempt to dehumanize those you hate - the first thing you lose is your own humanity.
We have a right to bring criminals to justice, but we do not have a right to take away their humanity.
Dude ... all I'm saying is that while we have a right to bring criminals to justice, God calls us to love our enemies and pray for them. He calls us to do good to those who hate us. I know, it's counterintuitive, but it's what God calls us to whether it's easy or reasonable or not. Calling people cockroaches is not loving your enemies, it's dehumanizing them.
You seem to not be able to separate the concept of justice and hatred. We can demand justice and see it done without hating those who hate us. Jesus never returned hatred with hatred.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 8:36:23 PM
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lescrivens
Posts: 5
Joined: 11/13/2008
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Gitmo was one of W biggest mistake. Look, he might be a believer but he was a bad President. Look Bush did not create Gitmo. It was Cheney that created that and Bush went along with it because Cheney really considers Bush as a dog. Cheney ran the real show and Bush was just the puppet that he used.
The liberals tell us that Bush should be impeached. No, he should not. Dick Cheney is one that should be impeaced and serve some time in the slammer
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 9:41:00 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3468
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I think Bush was a good president, and neither Bush or Chaney should serve time. Gitmo was not a bad idea. What would you have done? With respect, everyone thinks they could have done a better job. Bush kept this country safe for seven years, has anyone not noticed that. Gitmo is great, I do not want to live in terror, that is what terrorist do. They paralyze their victims with fear, and helplessness. Think about it, have you as a US citizen felt that fear since 9-11. I give Bush a hand how he has handled the war on terror. I do not want, the enemy right up clos and personal in your city? Gotmo is not bad.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lescrivens
Gitmo was one of W biggest mistake. Look, he might be a believer but he was a bad President. Look Bush did not create Gitmo. It was Cheney that created that and Bush went along with it because Cheney really considers Bush as a dog. Cheney ran the real show and Bush was just the puppet that he used.
The liberals tell us that Bush should be impeached. No, he should not. Dick Cheney is one that should be impeaced and serve some time in the slammer
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 10:57:15 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: phreddy
What torture is happening at Gitmo?
The torture referred to in an Army inspector general's report:
(Gen. Randall M. Schmidt, an investigator who interviewed Rumsfeld twice in early 2005) also saw close parallels between the interrogations at Guantánamo, and the photographic evidence of abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. "Just for the lack of a camera, it would sure look like Abu Ghraib," Schmidt told the inspector general, in the interview that was conducted in August 2005. At the direction of Pentagon officials, Miller led a mission to Iraq in August 2003 to review detainee operations at Abu Ghraib -- a visit that critics say precipitated the abuse of prisoners there.
Abuse is not torture, and you know it. Calling it that cheapens the word torture and the sufferings of those who truly have endured torture at the hands of people like those at Gitmo. But then again, cheapening language for political gain is what the left does best.
This Orwellian mis-information campain by the left, which you are guilty of furthering, has been one of the most shameful episodes of political cowardice in U.S. history, IMO. Unfortunately, it was bought into by the American people and was rewarded with political victory, so this strain of group-think will be a part of political discourse for years to come. Truth is the biggest casualty, and I fear the consequences for this country will be severe
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/13/2008 11:49:48 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 1021
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 2:40:06 AM
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dbark
Posts: 159
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
First, I am the woman, and evidently you do not understand reality. The other thing, when did I return hatered?
You got me ... I don't understand reality, I was hoping nobody would notice.
You returned hatred for hatred when you called human beings cockroaches.
_____________________________
"In seeking wisdom thou art wise; in imagining that thou hast attained it, thou art a fool." ~ Rabbi Ben Azai
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 4:50:40 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 2035
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I think Bush was a good president, and neither Bush or Chaney should serve time. Gitmo was not a bad idea. What would you have done? With respect, everyone thinks they could have done a better job. Bush kept this country safe for seven years, has anyone not noticed that. Gitmo is great, I do not want to live in terror, that is what terrorist do. They paralyze their victims with fear, and helplessness. Think about it, have you as a US citizen felt that fear since 9-11. I give Bush a hand how he has handled the war on terror. I do not want, the enemy right up clos and personal in your city? Gotmo is not bad.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lescrivens
Gitmo was one of W biggest mistake. Look, he might be a believer but he was a bad President. Look Bush did not create Gitmo. It was Cheney that created that and Bush went along with it because Cheney really considers Bush as a dog. Cheney ran the real show and Bush was just the puppet that he used.
The liberals tell us that Bush should be impeached. No, he should not. Dick Cheney is one that should be impeaced and serve some time in the slammer
Clinton kept this country safe for 7 years too after the '93 attacks. What's your point?
And yes, calling people cockroaches is not a good idea, so don't try to downplay it. This isn't the first time you've called people of the Islamic faith demeaning names. It shows a great deal of hatred, even if you claim it's not.
It's already been proven that over half the people sent to Gitmo were innocent.
How many more there are innocent?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 8:28:30 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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lightshineon wrote
quote:
Sorry you find it offensive, and these people are different than those in Rawanda. You have no right also to claim I hate these people. The comment about cockroaches and terrorist has to do with, how they are able to hide, and multiply in cell groups. This is a different type of enemy we have never delt with, and Bush and administration are doing the best they can. These people are different even from domestic terrorist. They are dangerous, and evil, sorry if that offends, but the truth is the truth. Their main goal in life is your destruction. There maybe a rare innocent person in gitmo, just as there are innocent people in prison. I doubt 99.9% of these folks are innocent. All you crying tiny tears for them, wasting your time and emotion why not pray for their souls? When you, or your children, or family members, lose their lives think about this thread. If they start sawing off your head like they have done to countless Americans, and Koreans, and Austrains and others, remember this thread. I think Nick Berg, was a supporter of these people, and they sawed of his head while he screamed, and sent it out on the internet. Love your neighbor, that is good, it is Godly, but where did some of you get scripture mixed up ?
where we cannot protect ourselves, as a nation ,and a people? Some of you really are totally mixed up with the whole of scripture, not knowing how to rightly divide the word.
This is the same manta Bush administration preached past 7 years and many of you bought it. World didn’t change because of 9/11 , terrorism is not a new thing in the world, terrorist are not knew in the world. If we look at the history of the world we see terrorism existed long before America was founded. India, British Empire, half of European Kingdom fought terrorism past 500 years if not more. Time and time idealistic people fought against their own government or foreign government, regardless of their ideology, right or wrong, government always branded them as terrorist. Our own founding fathers were called rabbles (in today’s PC culture it would be called terrorist) , today the are called Patriot.
I agree with you , when someone kill my children, or cut of my loved one’s head, they are my enemy and all I want to do is kill them. That is the human nature. But same thing can be told from their point of view. In their eyes we are the enemy. In their eyes we support dictator in their region, take away land from them etc.
Eye for an eye blind the whole world. We think they want to kill us all, they are evil and they want noting but our destruction even if it means they kill themselves, so we better kill them first.
They feel the same way. They think infidel Americans wants to destroy their way of life, destroy their religion, take away their land, take away their resources ( oil) , so they better kill us before we kill them.
So , how can we go beyond these misunderstanding. You and I know they are wrong about us, we want nothing to do with them, all we want is “leave us alone”. We are fine in our own continent, and believe you me, most of them feel the same way, they too want to be left alone.
I am not saying a person like Osama has same philosophy as I described here. Osama is total extremist, you can’t change his mind, death is only redemption for him to get out of so much hatred. But majority people in Islamic world are not like osama, they would rather have peace with us then kill us. Unfortunately the so called “ war on terror” , locking people for indefinite time became barrier to build bridge between equitable Muslims and us.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 8:40:18 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 632
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
I am not saying a person like Osama has same philosophy as I described here. Osama is total extremist, you can’t change his mind, death is only redemption for him to get out of so much hatred. But majority people in Islamic world are not like osama, they would rather have peace with us then kill us. Unfortunately the so called “ war on terror” , locking people for indefinite time became barrier to build bridge between equitable Muslims and us.
If the majority of Muslim people want to stop being lumped with terrorist then they need to aid us in removing them instead of protecting and hiding them. If they took care of their own radicals we wouldn't be forced to.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 9:37:04 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
I am not saying a person like Osama has same philosophy as I described here. Osama is total extremist, you can’t change his mind, death is only redemption for him to get out of so much hatred. But majority people in Islamic world are not like osama, they would rather have peace with us then kill us. Unfortunately the so called “ war on terror” , locking people for indefinite time became barrier to build bridge between equitable Muslims and us.
If the majority of Muslim people want to stop being lumped with terrorist then they need to aid us in removing them instead of protecting and hiding them. If they took care of their own radicals we wouldn't be forced to.
As I said , the biggest misunderstanding between us and them is that we think ALL OF THEM want to kill us , as they think that we wants to kill ALL OF THEM.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 10:01:24 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3951
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
Took the words right outta my keyboard. It's onlt torture if the other side does it.
From the Geneva Convention:
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
It is quite obvious why the administration wanted to avoid the Geneva Convention. BTW, one does not have to be a uniformed fighter to fall under POW status. This myth is frequently cited by our side:
Art 4. A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 10:55:06 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3468
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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You do not know my heart, so do not judge me. You thought a was a dude named lightshineon please. Like my husband would have that name. I will repeat for TC, and you why I called them cockroches, it is because they mutiply fast, and they hide. So whatever, my two HolySpirit Jrs. Thanks for judging my heart. I am not just stupid enough to think, that Bush did not keep us safe. Obama is buds with them so we will see how this works for us.
quote:
ORIGINAL: dbark
quote:
First, I am the woman, and evidently you do not understand reality. The other thing, when did I return hatered?
You got me ... I don't understand reality, I was hoping nobody would notice.
You returned hatred for hatred when you called human beings cockroaches.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 12:18:17 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 870
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Our own founding fathers were called rabbles (in today’s PC culture it would be called terrorist) , today the are called Patriot.
Do know how absurd that really sounds?
Parroting the lies of the media talking heads are we?
Someone brought up today the first several U.S. presidents were certainly revolutionaries and might have been called ‘terrorists’ by the British crown, after all.”~Brian Williams to Andrea Mitchell 2005
I admit it is difficult to talk reasonably about this subject when the terms , definitions, and other variables are constantly morphing but to make outrageous comments in defence of theses armed combatants against our government, economy, and civilians is beyond the pale imo.
You said Bush came up with "Enemy Combatant"???? WRONGO.
Where do you get this stuff?
If you want any credibility at all you need to start looking this stuff up instead of regergitating CNN talking points.
One short concise definition:
An enemy combatant refers to a soldier, unaffiliated with a formal enemy, who works by deceit and sabotage rather than traditional field combat. In traditional rules of war, an enemy combatant - like a spy - is not entitled to rule of war protections, just as soldiers wearing their enemy's uniforms as a ruse are not. The term has been applied today in the war on terror and Islamofascist terrorist soldiers.
More implications
Daily News Article - October 28, 2008Judge Narrows Definition of Gitmo’s ‘Enemy Combatants’
..........
The Defense Department has said that releasing some of the evidence publicly could imperil Americans if enemy soldiers use it to target their attacks.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 12:49:38 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3951
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Daily News Article - October 28, 2008Judge Narrows Definition of Gitmo’s ‘Enemy Combatants’
..........
From your link:
[U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon ruled that the term "enemy combatant" applies only to detainees who are accused of "supporting Taliban or al Qaeda forces [or an associated group]" in [hostile acts or a] battle against the U.S.]
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 3:33:25 PM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Our own founding fathers were called rabbles (in today’s PC culture it would be called terrorist) , today the are called Patriot.
Do know how absurd that really sounds?
Parroting the lies of the media talking heads are we?
You tell me then , what did British called all the founding fathers of ours ? Patriot?
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/14/2008 8:31:35 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Abuse is not torture, and you know it.
So abusing them is fine with you. Well that's just dandy. But torture is wrong?
The interrogators at Gitmo used techniques that the US previously called torture when they were used on American military by the Chinese in Korea. Indeed, part of the training manual for interrogators came directly from a report on Chinese torture tactics - only the label of the chart was changed.
No, calling abuse torture is the issue. Twisting the meaning of words and dis-information campaigns aimed at weakening the war on terror for political means are not fine with me.
Read the Detainee treatment Act. It's a truly humane and decent policy adopted for the treatment of the worst people on Earth (approved by every hypocritical dem. in the Senate, too). The fact that it's never mentioned by the left shows that truth is not their goal, nor is justice. It's politics, plain and simple.
quote:
Of 520, 270 have been released to other countries. 60 are eligible for release. That leaves 190. Gitmo military prison began taking prisoners from Afghanistan in 2002.
So if there's no due process or review policy, how did most of the detainees get released?
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 9:56:20 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 870
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Our own founding fathers were called rabbles (in today’s PC culture it would be called terrorist) , today the are called Patriot.
Do know how absurd that really sounds?
Parroting the lies of the media talking heads are we?
You tell me then , what did British called all the founding fathers of ours ? Patriot?
Revolutionary soldiers were referred to themselves, the Brittish, and others as:
Sons of Liberty
Patriots (from American Patriot Party, not the different meaning from today)
Whigs (from British Whig Party)
Radical Whigs
Patriot Whigs
Rebels
Bostonians
The main thing is not what they were called per se but who they actually were.
That is where the clear distinction is made between todays Islamofascist terrorists bent on destroying America because it spreads democracy.
The early American "patriots" were men and women from different social , ethnic, and religious backgrounds. Some where wealthy and very well educated such as Alexander Hamilton.
Their fight was one of reluctance not religious fervor.
Do you even know anything about the revolutionary war or do you just sit in your living room and listen to what Brian Williams and the rest of the Network news crews tell you to think? and then spout of things like "Bush did this", or "Bush did that", or "American patriots were terrorists!!" without even considering history?
King George declared war on them so it was not a war of rebellion but a war of defence.
I hope this short history lesson I provided gives you the opportunity to re-evaluate your non-sensical assumption that the islamofascist terrorsts that are bent on destryoing America, our congress, economy, innocent civillians, who consider those not of islam faith as infidels, the ones who be-head people and while the heads are still dripping with blood , make videos of the event and post them on the internet to spread fear and terror while shouting "Allah is great", are not anywhere near the same as the doctors, lawyers, farmers , and merchangts of the American Revolution colonies who wanted liberty from a tyrant (like Sadam Hussein) to rule themselves, abolish taxation without representation, etc...
You can either educate yourself and accept the truth of history, deny it and follow the lies of the media elite revisionists, or remain ignorant. The choice is yours.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 10:08:14 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 870
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
Daily News Article - October 28, 2008Judge Narrows Definition of Gitmo’s ‘Enemy Combatants’
..........
From your link:
[U.S. District Judge Richard J. Leon ruled that the term "enemy combatant" applies only to detainees who are accused of "supporting Taliban or al Qaeda forces [or an associated group]" in [hostile acts or a] battle against the U.S.]
The term was narrowed, wrecklessly and without basis imo. What happens when we get people planted here from Russia, Nicaragua, or somewhere else that doesn't like us. Do we call them criminals instead because they break the law bombing people?
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 11:02:53 AM
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PhunkD
Posts: 217
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline
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I find it amazing that so many people have so little confidence in the US military/justice system as to think we cannot handle this. Why do you think that some other country would do a better job than we would? I believe that we are up to the task, but apparently you think we are too weak!
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:02:48 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
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I didn't read any of the posts on this thread, but I will put in my short response - I think President-elect Obama is trying to give terrorists the same rights that we as Americans enjoy in order to try and demonstrate to the world that we are still nation ruled by law. I totally agree with him. Club Gitmo is a joke and disgrace to America. From what little I understand about it - most of the people in there are totally innocent. It is pitiful. Get them out of there and home where they belong. The few who are genuinely terrorists - bring them to America and put them into our system. THEY ARE CIVILIANS. They should be treated as such. They aren't POWs. They aren't the part of some other country's military. They are civilians. We should deal with them as such. I think we need to stick to the Bible's way of categorizing people. The one great and decisive division in Scripture, of course, is between those who alive and those who are dead, those who are 'in Christ', in other words, and those who are 'in Adam'. But there is a second division: those who are civilians and those who are government. I think setting up some sort of arbitrary sub-division of civilians so that you can apply some arbitrary laws to them is ludricrous.
God bless all in Christ,
Galadriel
< Message edited by galadriel2 -- 11/15/2008 1:08:59 PM >
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:14:38 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3468
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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WoW, it is like a woodstock sixties thing. We need to release the gitmo friends, and white doves in the sky at the same time. Are you people really this naieve? I am not trying to disrespect you, I really do not have to be right on this issue, but I honestly do not understand this thinking. These people want to destroy us I would like some evidence to the contrary. I do not want my family destroyed, because Obama wants world domination, and world-wide worship. Bless you also in Christ, though we disagree, we agree that we love tthe Lord.
quote:
ORIGINAL: galadriel2
I didn't read any of the posts on this thread, but I will put in my short response - I think President-elect Obama is trying to give terrorists the same rights that we as Americans enjoy in order to try and demonstrate to the world that we are still nation ruled by law. I totally agree with him. Club Gitmo is a joke and disgrace to America. From what little I understand about it - most of the people in there are totally innocent. It is pitiful. Get them out of there and home where they belong. The few who are genuinely terrorists - bring them to America and put them into our system. THEY ARE CIVILIANS. They should be treated as such. They aren't POWs. They aren't the part of some other country's military. They are civilians. We should deal with them as such.
God bless all in Christ,
Galadriel
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Why in heavens name is Obama wanting to bring Gitmo... - 11/15/2008 1:28:24 PM
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