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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 2:49:15 PM
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Mrs.Dawgfan
Posts: 11919
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: john's rib
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Are you honestly saying that you'd rather go back a hundred years?
In some respects, certainly.
Ok, but I'd like to keep the running water, modern medicine, internet, safe workplaces, EPA, and anti-trust laws.
I think that Jhud was not talking about the technological advances but rather about the evolution of our nation's leaders and how it has affected our democracy throughout the years.
I have always been more of a conservative and sided more towards the Republican point of view primarily because of two reasons...the basic premise that democracy lies within the people (government being guiding and encouraging proactive unity among the people) and the ability to sustain a solid moral foundation (one that would not compromise on the spiritual values of our forefathers). This is not to say that there are weaknesses in this point of view. Republicans can certainly grow and be more creative when it comes to keeping up with technological times.
I have another example, while not as big as an issue like gay marriage but certainly an example. Here in Hawaii in our recent local elections was a question asked by voters whether they support or not support a light rail transportation system. Opponents fought so hard to get the question on the ballot (and that was a good thing). But now that the people have spoken FOR rail, opponents continue to push forwards, seeing what they can do despite the people's vote. It's unbelievable. 
I am sure I would feel the same passion if the majority of voters voted against something I believe in. But nevertheless, I would have to get over it and respect the majority vote. The rest is left up to G-d anyway.
_____________________________
First Photo!  BLOG
Formerly known as Above_All
...I will bless those that bless you- GEN 12:3
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 2:49:21 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Above_All
What are your thoughts on Democracy in this country? Where do you think democracy will head with our current President elect?
I think Democracy "went with the wind" with FDR's admin. At current, we're more Socialist than anything and headed swiftly toward Communism.
As for a "peaceful transfer of power" (sic)...it hasn't even happened yet. Let's not count those chickens too early.
I just love the way people are ready to leave the "elect" off President Obama! Cool your jets, people...you'll be getting what you asked for soon enough. 
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 3:05:54 PM
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Bas
Posts: 278
Joined: 4/15/2006
From: Washington, DC
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I think democracy might survive...
What won't survive is liberty.
_____________________________
How can I run for office and say I want to be a weak president? We need a strong president, strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power the President shouldn’t have. -- Ron Paul
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 3:10:56 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bas
I think democracy might survive...
What won't survive is liberty.
Good point.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 3:21:42 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7605
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I think that Jhud was not talking about the technological advances but rather about the evolution of our nation's leaders and how it has affected our democracy throughout the years.
Well yes, that is part of it for me, but what I really am getting at is national character. The reality is we can only be as free as we are independent from having the government take care of us; and increasingly, even amongst Christians and 'conservatives' we expect the government to take care of more and more of our needs, even protect us from the risks that are really a part of ordinary human experience.
And as much as we depend on large federal bureaucracies to care for us, that is the degree to which we surrender our freedom, and I for one prefer in the balance freedom over comfort; at least the comfort that the state promises.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 3:30:33 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well yes, that is part of it for me, but what I really am getting at is national character. The reality is we can only be as free as we are independent from having the government take care of us; and increasingly, even amongst Christians and 'conservatives' we expect the government to take care of more and more of our needs, even protect us from the risks that are really a part of ordinary human experience.
Jack:
I'd say that our national 'character' is largely (though not entirely) defined by how we treat each other, especially the vulnerable (the poor, widows and orphans) and the powerless. Being too willing ask the government for help is not something any of us want. I'd also say that being too reluctant to use the government to help people who need it is not a sign of virtue or character.
Democracy will not be lost, or weakened by this election. The victors have as strong (I'd say in many ways stronger) committment to freedom and democracy than their opponents.
In fact, stoking up phantom fears of a governmnet that's going to be devoted to harming us is not productive.
During the clinton years, this hyper-anti-governmentalism had tragic consequences. With all the heavy weapons flying out of gun stores these days, I worry this fear-mongering will lead to violence by those who listen too closely to these doomsday scenarios.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 3:42:20 PM
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Kenedie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well yes, that is part of it for me, but what I really am getting at is national character. The reality is we can only be as free as we are independent from having the government take care of us; and increasingly, even amongst Christians and 'conservatives' we expect the government to take care of more and more of our needs, even protect us from the risks that are really a part of ordinary human experience.
Jack:
I'd say that our national 'character' is largely (though not entirely) defined by how we treat each other, especially the vulnerable (the poor, widows and orphans) and the powerless. Being too willing ask the government for help is not something any of us want. I'd also say that being too reluctant to use the government to help people who need it is not a sign of virtue or character.
Democracy will not be lost, or weakened by this election. The victors have as strong (I'd say in many ways stronger) committment to freedom and democracy than their opponents.
In fact, stoking up phantom fears of a governmnet that's going to be devoted to harming us is not productive.
During the clinton years, this hyper-anti-governmentalism had tragic consequences. With all the heavy weapons flying out of gun stores these days, I worry this fear-mongering will lead to violence by those who listen too closely to these doomsday scenarios.
Well said!!
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 3:43:19 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7605
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I'd say that our national 'character' is largely (though not entirely) defined by how we treat each other, especially the vulnerable (the poor, widows and orphans) and the powerless. Being too willing ask the government for help is not something any of us want. I'd also say that being too reluctant to use the government to help people who need it is not a sign of virtue or character.
I disagree; when we 'use the government to help people' invariably what we do is create large intransient bureaucracies that exist by forcing certain individuals to give up a portion of their earned funds; this is always a coercive process, and never an indication of true virtue or charity of the sort Scripture promotes. And it inevitably reduces the overall freedom of our nation.
quote:
During the clinton years, this hyper-anti-governmentalism had tragic consequences. With all the heavy weapons flying out of gun stores these days, I worry this fear-mongering will lead to violence by those who listen too closely to these doomsday scenarios.
Well I am no advocate of armed resistance to a democratically (and legitimately I might add) elected governments, but I think as much as any government would seek to reduce fundamental rights (like those incorporated in the 2nd amendment) it invites trouble.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 4:03:52 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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My ex(?)-brother-in-law's grandparents escaped from the siege of Smyrna/Izmir. Islamic terrorism's been around a long time. Like 13 centuries.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 4:14:14 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7605
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
My ex(?)-brother-in-law's grandparents escaped from the siege of Smyrna/Izmir. Islamic terrorism's been around a long time. Like 13 centuries.
Yes, it does seem to be somewhat inherent to the system of belief.
Though in all fairness I do have relatives (through marriage) who are Ukranian, and who survived Stalinist purges that killed tens of millions. So such atrocities aren't the product merely of a particular religious belief.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 5:12:14 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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Very true, and although we have (often) argued in the past, I think we agree on the effects of socialism (as in the topic of this thread) and the dictatorial forms of repression it can cause.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 5:18:25 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
Joined: 6/7/2008
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Democracy is surely being threatened, openly even. The governor of California has publicly called for an overturning of the will of the people by the courts, with the full support of the media.
I believe we are now seeing the beginnings of religious persecution. In California, churches and temples are being surrounded, with attendees being harassed and threatened. Violence will soon follow, without attention from the media. On another thread, a video is posted of a
courageous elderly woman being assaulted and a cross she was carrying is stomped on, after which an air-headed news anchor says "a lot of hate is being shown on both sides".
The intolerant, facistic left is now in power. This has always meant loss of religious freedom and persecution. It's time for people of faith to grow up and stop their little fights about worship styles and "seeker-friendliness". We need to stand firm in the face of trials and persecutions (James 1). Are we mature enough, or will we cave in for safety and comfort?
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 6:07:56 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well yes, that is part of it for me, but what I really am getting at is national character. The reality is we can only be as free as we are independent from having the government take care of us; and increasingly, even amongst Christians and 'conservatives' we expect the government to take care of more and more of our needs, even protect us from the risks that are really a part of ordinary human experience.
Jack:
I'd say that our national 'character' is largely (though not entirely) defined by how we treat each other, especially the vulnerable (the poor, widows and orphans) and the powerless. Being too willing ask the government for help is not something any of us want. I'd also say that being too reluctant to use the government to help people who need it is not a sign of virtue or character.
Do you think so? I only ask because we give more when tragedy strikes than any other nation in the world, and yet the world's perception of us remains negative despite these charitable actions from both the government and the people of this country.
Democracy will not be lost, or weakened by this election. The victors have as strong (I'd say in many ways stronger) committment to freedom and democracy than their opponents.
In fact, stoking up phantom fears of a governmnet that's going to be devoted to harming us is not productive.
During the clinton years, this hyper-anti-governmentalism had tragic consequences. With all the heavy weapons flying out of gun stores these days, I worry this fear-mongering will lead to violence by those who listen too closely to these doomsday scenarios.
I do not think that democracy will be lost, but I do think that capitalism might be. Bailing our banks, insurance brokers, and now the automotive industry is putting the government's hand into a whole lot of big business's. What is it called again when government takes ownership of businesses? What is it called again when they start to redistribute wealth? What is it called again when government starts to grow bigger and bigger, taking away rights afforded to it's citizens in the interest of governing "the people" in fairness?
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 6:21:41 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Democracy is surely being threatened, openly even. The governor of California has publicly called for an overturning of the will of the people by the courts, with the full support of the media.
I believe we are now seeing the beginnings of religious persecution. In California, churches and temples are being surrounded, with attendees being harassed and threatened. Violence will soon follow, without attention from the media. On another thread, a video is posted of a
courageous elderly woman being assaulted and a cross she was carrying is stomped on, after which an air-headed news anchor says "a lot of hate is being shown on both sides".
The intolerant, facistic left is now in power. This has always meant loss of religious freedom and persecution. It's time for people of faith to grow up and stop their little fights about worship styles and "seeker-friendliness". We need to stand firm in the face of trials and persecutions (James 1). Are we mature enough, or will we cave in for safety and comfort?
Unfortunately, this nation has been heading in this direction for a long time. If California does decide to challenge the will of the people who voted in favor of keeping marriage between one man and one woman, then yes, democracy is definitely taking one on the chin. However, once they decide to do so, there will be an appeal to the Supreme Court, which in all likelihood is going to stand on the side of democracy. They will have jurisdiction because the state will be in violation of constitutional law, both California's constitution, and the country's constitution.
Of course, the persectution has been around for awhile, but it is going to get worse. Biblical teaching states straight out that persecution will be grow in severity in the last days
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 7:21:59 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I disagree; when we 'use the government to help people' invariably what we do is create large intransient bureaucracies that exist by forcing certain individuals to give up a portion of their earned funds; this is always a coercive process, and never an indication of true virtue or charity of the sort Scripture promotes. And it inevitably reduces the overall freedom of our nation.
I think you'd agree with me that the first-line to 'help people' should be the church. But, for problems that are too big for the church to solve: if we don't act collectively (i.e. use the government), the problem just doesn't get solved. If we say that we're not going to use the government to solve a problem, what it means is that sometimes the problem isn't going to be addressed. Yes, there is a downside to using government to do this, which you've rightly identified. But, the alternative of people starving, dying from cold or lack of medical care or from abusive home situations, or whatever, is much worse than creating a bureaucracy and taxing people to do it.
I think that the old testament prophets like Amos are very explicit about this: God gives us explicit instructions through these prophets to care for the vulnerable (widows, orphans, aliens,etc...). His commands are directed at His people, the people of God. We are his people, and we can't avoid these commands by saying nobody should require us to help anyone else.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well I am no advocate of armed resistance to a democratically (and legitimately I might add) elected governments, but I think as much as any government would seek to reduce fundamental rights (like those incorporated in the 2nd amendment) it invites trouble.
Unfortunately, a lot of people won't think of it as clearly as you. When conservatives make these statements:
-One reason citizens have guns so that if the government tries to take your rights you can use them against the government.
-The Socialists/Marxists/Islamofascists have now taken over the government and are going to persecute you and are trying take away your rights
A lot of people are going add one and one and start thinking about taking action.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 7:25:46 PM
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ayani
Posts: 194
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
I do not think that democracy will be lost, but I do think that capitalism might be. Bailing our banks, insurance brokers, and now the automotive industry is putting the government's hand into a whole lot of big business's. What is it called again when government takes ownership of businesses? What is it called again when they start to redistribute wealth? What is it called again when government starts to grow bigger and bigger, taking away rights afforded to it's citizens in the interest of governing "the people" in fairness?
I'm as shocked as you are by the way the government has leapt into buying into private businesses. I see now even credit-card companies are getting government money. Even more surprising is that its the economic conservatives who have done it. I can't imagine what's going to happen when the Democrats are in control.....
But, government meddling in markets is not the same as taking away rights or weakening democracy. And, they'r not doing it out of a sense of 'fairness', but for economic (and, I suspect, political) reasons.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 8:48:51 PM
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Churchmouse26
Posts: 41
Joined: 11/5/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I disagree; when we 'use the government to help people' invariably what we do is create large intransient bureaucracies that exist by forcing certain individuals to give up a portion of their earned funds; this is always a coercive process, and never an indication of true virtue or charity of the sort Scripture promotes. And it inevitably reduces the overall freedom of our nation.
I think you'd agree with me that the first-line to 'help people' should be the church. But, for problems that are too big for the church to solve: if we don't act collectively (i.e. use the government), the problem just doesn't get solved. If we say that we're not going to use the government to solve a problem, what it means is that sometimes the problem isn't going to be addressed. Yes, there is a downside to using government to do this, which you've rightly identified. But, the alternative of people starving, dying from cold or lack of medical care or from abusive home situations, or whatever, is much worse than creating a bureaucracy and taxing people to do it.
I think that the old testament prophets like Amos are very explicit about this: God gives us explicit instructions through these prophets to care for the vulnerable (widows, orphans, aliens,etc...). His commands are directed at His people, the people of God. We are his people, and we can't avoid these commands by saying nobody should require us to help anyone else.
I certainly agree that the "first line" should be the church. It's not that the problems are "too big" for the churches (collectively) to handle, however -- it's because the government keeps the churches' hands tied. Traditionally the church was #1 in helping the poor and effecting more permanent solutions to poverty and other (sometimes related) social problems. But in today's cultural and political climate, either the churches/parachurch organizations aren't requiring accountability from those who are being assisted (i.e., in the case of some mainstream liberal denominations), or they are so intimidated by the government's legal restrictions on the operation of their ministry project, their assistance remains a mere temporary 'stopgap' and often doesn't get to the root of the problem being addressed.
Unfortunately I foresee parachurch ministries becoming less, not more, active during Obama's coming administration. As Americans' tax burdens increase to support the (mostly ineffective) bureaucratic programs, they will have less discretionary funds to contribute to faith-based charities and missions. So it's more or less a double-whammy. :(
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 9:27:16 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
Democracy will not be lost, or weakened by this election. The victors have as strong (I'd say in many ways stronger) committment to freedom and democracy than their opponents.
Please refresh my memory, I do not recall any such sentiment coming from Obama, or his supporters during the election, nor the Democrats over the past 8 years.
quote:
In fact, stoking up phantom fears of a governmnet that's going to be devoted to harming us is not productive.
It is "not productive" to be concerned about the future direction of your country?
quote:
During the clinton years, this hyper-anti-governmentalism had tragic consequences. With all the heavy weapons flying out of gun stores these days, I worry this fear-mongering will lead to violence by those who listen too closely to these doomsday scenarios.
Refusing to be totally deceived is fear-mongering?
Raising questions and concerns and voicing them is "fear-mongering"?
Refusing to consider "doomsday scenarios" can also bring "tragic consequences" as well as violent consequences, by waiting too long to act, that you can not act.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 10:01:46 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3146
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
-Clinton (8 years)
-Carter (4 years)
-Kennedy/Johnson (8 years)
-Roosevelt/Truman (20 years)
-Woodrow Wilson (8 years)
-(TR? If so, 8 years)
TOTAL: 48 (56) years
Clinton? A centrist at most. He agreed with 7 of the ten components to the Contract with America the republican congress proposed.
Carter? Liberal and ineffective and a perverter of the Word.
FDR? How can anyone who is libeal today hate Bush and just worship FDR who did much more to suspend freedoms in this country than any other president? The beginner of big government.
You cannot group Kennedy and Johnson. Kennedy was at least a fiscal conservative and believed that people should do more for others then the government. Johnson was the Great Society, welfare king and pure socialist...and warmonger.
Truman...the only good president represented but also a believer in government.
Woodrow Wilson? I believe there were some serious issues with the man...anti-semetic or biogot?
quote:
The victors have as strong (I'd say in many ways stronger) committment to freedom and democracy than their opponents.
How so? What freedoms are contained in expanding abortion, gay marriage and taxes? Where is the freedom in quieting voices? You elect a man based on his skin pigment ( something done ofr 200+ years ) and its "freedom"?
Superficial.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 10:58:50 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
Joined: 6/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ayani
I think you'd agree with me that the first-line to 'help people' should be the church. But, for problems that are too big for the church to solve: if we don't act collectively (i.e. use the government), the problem just doesn't get solved. If we say that we're not going to use the government to solve a problem, what it means is that sometimes the problem isn't going to be addressed. Yes, there is a downside to using government to do this, which you've rightly identified. But, the alternative of people starving, dying from cold or lack of medical care or from abusive home situations, or whatever, is much worse than creating a bureaucracy and taxing people to do it.
You couldn't be more wromg about this, my friend. To say that "if we don't use government to fix a problem, it isn't going to be addressed" ignores the history of the last half of the 20th century. Every social problem that government has addressed, with the possible exception of air pollution, has gotten worse, not better. Government action has CREATED social problems that would not have existed otherwise. To quote Ronald Reagan "Government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem", and, as a nation we are headed for some HUGE problems.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/12/2008 11:11:41 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Government action has CREATED social problems that would not have existed otherwise. To quote Ronald Reagan "Government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem", and, as a nation we are headed for some HUGE problems.
Got any examples?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/13/2008 1:40:55 PM
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backrowbaptist
Posts: 441
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
Government action has CREATED social problems that would not have existed otherwise. To quote Ronald Reagan "Government is not the solution to the problem, government IS the problem", and, as a nation we are headed for some HUGE problems.
Got any examples?
-Dan.
Sure! Look at a newspaper. Government pressure and programs to give loans to those that can't afford them has led to a cascade of financial problems in other sectors that will take years to recover from.
Look at the Great Society under LBJ. THE ultimate experiment in government attempting to solve social problems. In trying to allieviate poverty, the government spawned entire generations of crime, drug use and family breakdown. And we still have poverty, don't we?
It's called the Law of Unintended Consequences. Here's a good article:
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/UnintendedConsequences.html
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/13/2008 3:09:52 PM
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radiorobert
Posts: 85
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Something came to mind when reading earlier posts. It's the issue of technology, medicine, quality of life, etc.
Here it is:
When you look at other areas of the world, particularly where there is extreme poverty and lack of food, clean water, etc. You find churches being planted there, the gospel spreading, good being done, food being given out, clothing, medicine being brought, education being introduced and so on.
You see God's work being done right next to atrocious evil. You find people working in the spiritual fields in spite of bad conditions.
Why would God allow the gospel to spread to people, and for those people to become saved, if they can't be saved in a comfortable environment???
Why does scripture not have much to say directly, to guaranteeing comfort, money and material goods once someone is saved?
Could it be that God is concerned first and foremost about something 'eternal' rather than temporal and earthly?! 
What I'm trying to say is that the things that a certain group of people in this country are worried about on a daily basis...money, rights, enlightenment, personal recognition, laws and so forth, don't even register yet when God deals with salvation first and foremost.
To add to this point, let me give you an example of what we are dealing with when we talk of 'spiritual matters' and having a spiritual conversion first.
A recent presentation from a missionary our local church supports, revealed something startling that should remind all of us what much of the work of the Lord is really all about. While in Africa, doing mission work in a local village, the missionaries noticed something that spoke volumes about the situation we see often times around the world.
There was a man who was straving, had very little income, lived largely homeless and lived in awful conditions (this was the case in much of the village). While speaking with this man it became clear what was happening. In a photo we saw at church, this man was sitting in a chair, hungry, little shelter, no money, etc.
Next to him on the bench, was a beer bottle. Yes, a beer bottle. Out back behind what he was using for a home, was a grassy area that stretched several feet behind his place. A local church member who was walking with this pastor, pointed out that much of soil in that area, was equally as fertile, if not moreso, than the soil in much of the American midwest. And, the beer the man had next to him, was bought with what money he did have, from a beer truck that came through town at roughly the same time everyday. He noted that these beer trucks are usually swarmed by people, who give up their money, just to get a case of beer, so they can get drunk.
Ironically and sadly, the amount of money they often spend on beer is the same amount they could buy several days of basic food items for. Or, put towards buying tools and seed to grow a garden, or set up a farm with the other villagers.
See the problem here?
I hear and see so much in the news about giving 'aid' to poor, starving countries. Yet this aid seems to fall down a black hole, never to be seen again. Because the aid never addresses the real problem.
We have billions of people across the world who are living indignified, unglorified lives of darkness because they don't know Christ. They haven't dealt with the sin that plagues them and their cultures, so they can't get out of the darkness to really do anything about it. They'll go for a quick escape or solution only to forego the real problem and thus do nothing to help their situation through knowledge and wisdom that they themselves could have and would improve their situation literally overnight.
Our Democracy is not what gives us freedom, liberty and comfort. It's our laws, based on our understanding of Biblical Judeo-Christian principles that give us our ideals and concepts of freedom. That gives us a foundation to build a country off of because we expect and know that the citizens of that country will operate their lives with these basic concepts in mind. When we are hungry, we find ways to get food and better our situation. The same with finances, medicine, social problems, etc.
It's a system that trusts that man has the power and the ability, if he knows God, to be able to bring himself and those around him a dignified life that glorifies God. It's a very simple concept our founding fathers new was so vital and yet so basic, they probably imagined that if we ever lost it, our country was as good as dead anyway.
Helping the widows, the poor, the destitude, that all means nothing, if you don't bring a change into their life. And they may not even be at fault for their situation, but they still must be willing to walk forward as we help them. The problem with not having enough charity isn't one the government should concern itself with, rather it should further press the PEOPLE into action, knowing that we have to do something about it on our own with God, not the government.
We're headed for communism b/c we have lost the values and the spiritual foundation we once had. It has then caused successive generations to not even be familiarized with things that people once had to know, just to survive. It creates a situation where we find ourselves trying to fix our own problems without God's help b/c we don't even know who he is anymore.
Why is stealing illegal in our society? Because we know (or knew) that what a person worked for was rightfully theirs and it would be a sin and a tragedy to take that from them. (see the 10 Commandments) In addition, it would reward the actions of the criminal by showing him that he can do whatever he wants to people and face no consequences and that God cares not what he does and doesn't want him to know right and wrong either.
To speak frankly, we have created this portion of society that just wants 'stuff' to keep them going and keep them comfortable and oblivious, with no idea or concept of why they even deserve it or not to begin with.
Our incoming leader speaks directly to this crowd by spreading words of 'hope' 'peace' 'love' with no real detail of what that even means or how we would ever obtain it. Or why what those things orginally meant, has been completely lost and turned into some feel-good human concept.
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RE: Democracy Lost - 11/13/2008 3:26:34 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3951
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
As for a "peaceful transfer of power" (sic)...it hasn't even happened yet. Let's not count those chickens too early.
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