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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Since the bus ad comes from the AHA, they would promote the ideals in the Humanist Manifesto:

"Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility."

More info if you click the link.

So basically their own made up idea of good.

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Their own chosen idea of good, I would say. Just as the Catholics, Anabaptists, Mennonites, Jews, Sikhs and Wiccans have chosen theirs.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Their own chosen idea of good, I would say. Just as the Catholics, Anabaptists, Mennonites, Jews, Sikhs and Wiccans have chosen theirs.

With the exception of the ambiguous Wiccans who have no discernible set of precepts, none of the others 'choose' what is good vis a vis their religious beliefs, but rather acccept the standards of good that are part of their systems of belief. Quite different I would think.

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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Their own chosen idea of good, I would say. Just as the Catholics, Anabaptists, Mennonites, Jews, Sikhs and Wiccans have chosen theirs.

With the exception of the ambiguous Wiccans who have no discernible set of precepts, none of the others 'choose' what is good vis a vis their religious beliefs, but rather acccept the standards of good that are part of their systems of belief. Quite different I would think.

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And their religious affiliation is chosen based on (among other things) how consistent that belief system's standards of good are with the believer's ideas of what is good. If your religion told you X was good and your own beliefs diverged too much, I expect you'd change religious affiliations.

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ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman

Dubya, it wasn't the Roman EMPIRE that was converted, it was the Roman Emperor Constantine I. He then declared that Christianity was the official religion but many Roman citizens continued to observe pagan religions, especially outside of the comsopolitan areas.

Despite his conversion, Constantine wasn't anywhere near a saint. He kept mistresses, arranged for the assissination of rivals and their families, and was a master of court and political intrigue. I am a legitimate descendant, but am myself ambivalent about it. While seen as a great ruler, he was a horrendous husband and father, and dangerous to anyone who aroused his ire no matter how unintentional the supposed slight. Historical accounts hold that his conversion to the church was more a political ploy than an actual change of heart.

He may have been the first politician to do this, but he obviously wasn't the last.

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ORIGINAL: campbe33

'Why Believe in a God? Just be Good' Ads Set to Run Next Week On D.C. Buses

Washington, D.C. — You better watch out. There is a new combatant in the Christmas wars.

Ads proclaiming, "Why believe in a god? Just be good for goodness' sake," will appear on Washington, D.C., buses starting next week and running through December. The American Humanist Association unveiled the provocative $40,000 holiday ad campaign Tuesday.

In lifting lyrics from "Santa Claus is Coming to Town," the Washington-based group is wading into what has become a perennial debate over commercialism, religion in the public square and the meaning of Christmas.

"We are trying to reach our audience, and sometimes in order to reach an audience, everybody has to hear you," said Fred Edwords, spokesman for the humanist group. "Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion."

To that end, the ads and posters will include a link to a Web site that will seek to connect and organize like-minded thinkers in the D.C. area, Edwords said.

FULL STORY HERE

Personally I stopped celebrating Christmas as Christ birthday 5 years ago, because it was a man-made holiday. I did this because Christmas started as something else. If you bring St. Nicolas into the equation, who was an actual "Saint". Saint Nicholas (Greek: ¢ãéïò Íéêüëáïò , Agios Nikolaos, "victory of the people") is the common name for Nicholas of Myra, a Christian saint and Bishop of Myra in Lycia of Anatolia (modern-day Antalya province, Turkey, though at the time it was a Greek-speaking Roman Province). Because of the many miracles attributed to his intercessions. It was also derived from the "Winter Soltice". Modern Christmas with pagan customs include: gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; and Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts.[11] Pagan Scandinavia celebrated a winter festival called Yule, held in the late December to early January period. As Northern Europe was the last part to Christianize, its pagan traditions had a major influence on Christmas. Scandinavians still call Christmas Jul. In English, word Yule is synonymous with Christmas, a usage first recorded in 900. Once again Christians take a pagan holiday and make it a Christian one. Christ was not born at this time, so why do we celebrate it as though he was born on the 25th of December. I instead started celebrating just as a time of goodwill and giving. Though I might not support the reason behind this campaign, I do see this as just another man-made holiday. It has gotten way to commercialized with children just expecting to get their hearts desire. Don't get me wrong I realllllyyyy love Christ, but I just refuse to go on ignore the facts stated above. Therefore, I cannot go on celebrating his fake birthday. I still love all the Christmas Specials I grew up with. I just think it's time for Christians to face the truth about Christmas. I think establishing it as a Holiday to promote goodwill among everyone, atheist included is a very good and intelligent idea. I do however, strongly disagree with them for promoting it as "Why believe in God". I do think it is an excellent opportunity for Christians to go door to door ringing bells and sharing the Gospel of the Lord. "I do believe does give us a Christians a reason to share the Season of God's Word."

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ORIGINAL: Jhud

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And their religious affiliation is chosen based on (among other things) how consistent that belief system's standards of good are with the believer's ideas of what is good. If your religion told you X was good and your own beliefs diverged too much, I expect you'd change religious affiliations.

Actually I think it works the other way around (or should); I am a Christian because I accept the fundamental truths of Christianity; the behavior that results derives from the acceptance of those truths – my standards of what is good would only change if I first rejected those same truths.

It’s much the same reasoning that keeps me from jumping off a twenty story building; I accept the fundamental truths about gravity, and so I alter my behavior accordingly. My desire to feel the air rushing by my face in a multi-story plunge would not change my behavior unless I first rejected the reality of gravity, or was willing to accept the consequences of ignoring that reality.

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ORIGINAL: bravjim

What I find so interesting is how so many who are secularists and atheists still celebrate Christmas. They do not believe, so just what is it they are celebrating? So many others grow depressed during the holidays. Why is that? I mean, why get so depressed when people are celebrating something that they don't even believe, let alone know?

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ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

Maybe, having money, as a christian, ain't so bad? ( I'll not even mention the food pantry and thanksgiving meals and homeless and all the councilling we offer )

Let me inform the great body of Christ out there...money ain't evil. In the hands of a commited christian its a tool God gives them to truly help others by LIVING their love of Christ and giving in HIS NAME to those in need.

Materialism is what you make of it....and by the way, I'm not one of the affluent and hey...they let me in anyways.

Oh..and I forgot, we even had Santa, AT CHURCH, a local radio personality who was not saved...and now goes to our church regularily.

You can put God in your little poverty worshipping box but I prefer...reality.

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but rather secular businesses making gobs of money for reasons divorced of the Gospel or even helping the needy.

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Too many of my Christian friends and family go into debt over the Christmas holidays to buy gifts

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Convention says you have to get something for everyone

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I mean, I realize there are Christians that still support the concept and observance of Santa Claus

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People will leave a church if the church's chosen standard of right and wrong differ too much from their chosen standard or right and wrong. The church's chosen standard of morality has a strong influence on its members' chosen standards of morality, but does not dictate what members consider moral or immoral. Many Catholics use forms of birth control that the church considers immoral. Many people left the Episcopal Church because the church's stance of gay issues differed too much from their stance on gay issues. Many stayed with the church.

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Morality is not at all like gravity. Gravity is objective and observable. Morality is neither.

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Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility."

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Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience.

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Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond.

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We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity

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and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

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"Our reason for doing it during the holidays is there are an awful lot of agnostics, atheists and other types of non-theists who feel a little alone during the holidays because of its association with traditional religion."

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ORIGINAL: campbe33

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ORIGINAL: Bas

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Christ was not born anywhere near December, so why continue to perpetuate that lie.

No informed person believe or teaches that Christ was actually born on December 25.

Basing the liturgical year on passover and the resurrection, which are fixed dates, the rest of the calendar was placed at the appropriate dates for an annual cycle.

So why should Christians celebrate December 25th as the Lord's birthday?
It's a man-made holiday. Everytime I hear "He is the reason for the Season", I cringe.

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A friend of mine attends IHOP and the teachers there said last year will be our last christmas. I think he was right.