|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 9:45:56 AM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
hello all. ive been wondering lately what in the world is it that preachers are not allowed to preach that will put their churches tax exempt status in jeopardy. All i have been made aware of is that preachers are not allowed to endorse a particular candidate.
oh i should make clear that im an america so im speaking from this perspective. ive heard my whole life how great america is and particularly free speech and religious freedom. im having serious doubts and have a pretty good feeling this tax exempt thing goes much further than just a particular candidate or election. thanx, tom
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 11:02:20 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
You got it correct, if a Church wants to keep their tax emempt status (which means basically that donations are deductacle from income tax by the giver) they are not supposed to endorse a particular candidate.
Your concersn about expanding the things that cannot be done may well become true. Possibley including "Hate speech" as in preaching or teaching about homosexuality or other sins.
But all a Church has to do is drop the 501(C)3 status and talk about whatevr they wish to with the only concern being civil litigation and not law breaking.
I really have never seen the need for a Pastor or Church to have to endorse a particular candidate, if the Bible has been preached; then the folks will know who to vote for and who to not even consider.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 1:07:48 PM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
ok so as of now the only thing churches cant do is endorse a particular candidate?
so peoples donations are tax deductible,im assuming also that churches pay no taxes at all? tom
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 1:53:35 PM
|
|
|
Heavendweller
Posts: 587
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I really have never seen the need for a Pastor or Church to have to endorse a particular candidate, if the Bible has been preached; then the folks will know who to vote for and who to not even consider.
Thanks
RC
Sadly, I think this did not apply in the most recent election. Many Christians voted for Obama, the most liberal, pro-abortion candidate in the Senate. People can hear the truth, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will take heed to it and listen.
HD
_____________________________
See what love the Father has given us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. I John 3:1
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 2:56:48 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 3039
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
I just read that there is a movement by several "No on 8" groups to try and take away the tax exempt status of any churches who promoted "Yes on 8" here in California. Don't quite know how that would work since "Yes on 8" is based on biblical principles.
Things are getting dark and murky, folks!!!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 3:46:46 PM
|
|
|
Qtman
Posts: 9446
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
|
A state can't take away a Churches 501(c) status. That is Federal Law and all the state can do is apply its own taxes to them. It is highly unusual for a State to not recognize a Federal 501(2) corporation. Here in Alabama Churches are not exempt from Sales Tax but they are from Income and other types taxes. Of course a 501(c) charitable corporation is a non profit corporation in the first place. Taxes would be based on profit. If they are a non profit there would be no taxes.
_____________________________
STRESS = The internal struggle created when the brain trys to over ride the heart's desire to tell off some jerk that really deserves to be told off.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 4:06:15 PM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
ok so churches are basically tax free. i can dig and support this,even if it seems they are slightly on a razors edge as it were. what i find troubling is that this seems like the only part of the whole church/state seperation thing that benefits christians. i certainly understand christians fears in this area as it seems the very people that scream discrimination want to turn around and do the same thing. hypocrites!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 5:38:43 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
ok so churches are basically tax free. i can dig and support this,even if it seems they are slightly on a razors edge as it were. what i find troubling is that this seems like the only part of the whole church/state seperation thing that benefits christians. i certainly understand christians fears in this area as it seems the very people that scream discrimination want to turn around and do the same thing. hypocrites!
All 501(C)3 non-profit organizations are under the same rules; including most political PACs; they can endorse policies, etc. but not individuales.
Churches are Tax Exempt to a certain degree; most states do not requiire them to pay sales taxes; some states require property taxes; some do not.
All Chruches must pay withholdings, unemployment insureance, medicare, etc. from the pay for employees including the Pastor.
The main advantage is that gifts to the Church are tax deductable for the giver.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 10:07:42 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 3003
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
Wonder if ACORN is a 501-3C organization?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/9/2008 11:35:12 PM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
you gotta admit also though rcjames that being tax-free after the individual donations enter into the church fund is a pretty fantastic benefit also. Good question about ACORN colliefan, but if we get into bias's towards the left and christian values being seen as hateful and discriminatory we're gonna need a new thread.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/10/2008 6:06:44 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 11128
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: online
|
I'm a church bookkeeper so this is something that I know a fair amount about. It's also something many folks don't understand.
What does it limit on the church?
1. No substantial political campaigning (your church can't tell you: vote for so-and-so). However, you can teach biblical principles in voting and being a responsible citizen so why should the church be telling you who to vote for anyway? Our pastor preached a very hard-hitting pre-election sermon and while he didn't endorse any particular candidates, he didn't need to. 
2. Church funds cannot be used for inurement (to personal benefit an individual or individuals). As a church, they shouldn't do that anyway, so no problem there.
3. Churches cannot be engaged in significant non-exempt business (you can't run a restaurant for the public, call it a church and be tax exempt). The purpose must be primarily non-profit. Some churches can run into trouble here as many do more and more "business" to raise funds, etc.
What are the primary down-sides to having the status revoked or not having it?
1. Church can/will become liable for federal income taxes, lose their pastor's option to opt out of social security (many pastors can qualify for self-employment) and depending on the state, may lose their property tax exemption and sales tax exemption. (In WA where I live, we must still pay sales tax and must pay property taxes on some property. In WA though, we do not have to pay unemployment taxes - good for the employer - not so much for the employee  ).
2. Donations to the church will not be tax deductible for the donor.
3. Church may lose their exemption from non-discrimination in hiring. This is important if you don't believe in your pastor being homosexual. Having tax-exempt status means the government can't force you to hire someone whose values are opposed to your church's values. You lose that exemption, and well...
4. The church will lose certain protections in IRS audits.
There is more, but honestly, I see no reason for a church to not get tax-exempt status. I do see plenty of reasons to have the tax exempt status however - from a financial (and we are to be good stewards) and moral standpoint.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Classified Ads: "Government employer looking for candidates. Criminal background required."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/10/2008 6:39:34 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Wonder if ACORN is a 501-3C organization?
I believe so.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/10/2008 6:43:57 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
you gotta admit also though rcjames that being tax-free after the individual donations enter into the church fund is a pretty fantastic benefit also. Good question about ACORN colliefan, but if we get into bias's towards the left and christian values being seen as hateful and discriminatory we're gonna need a new thread.
Sales tax on Church use items is not a "Fantastic" benefit, at least to my thinking.
Property tax might be, depending on the property and the taxing area.
The real benefit is for those giving donations to the tax exempt organizations.
At my Church we decided not to opt out of paying sales taxes on items bought in the state; even though we legally could have.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/11/2008 2:31:15 AM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
the exemption from non-discriminational hiring would seem to be the biggest issue right now with the homosexuals fighting for certain rights only held by married people now. at least in the united states anyway, according to alot of europeans i talk to this has already changed. good post phosadaud
rcjames how can not paying taxes be a fantastic benefit for churches? they take in a great deal of money and if they dont pay taxes on it like any other business would it seems pretty fantastic to me.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/11/2008 7:13:22 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
rcjames how can not paying taxes be a fantastic benefit for churches? they take in a great deal of money and if they dont pay taxes on it like any other business would it seems pretty fantastic to me.
Since there is no profit anyway; then there would be no corporate income tax. (all businesses are taxed on profit not income).
we do not spend a lot of money on sales tax. Most supplies that we order are out of state internet orders and are not taxable anyway.
The total sales tax saviings on monies for supplies if we took the option not to pay sales tax would be about forty dollars a month.
If the property was taxed at the same rate as a business building in the area it would be about 3500 dollars per year.
It may be a matter of semnatics, but I do not consider those numbers "Fantastic".
As I stated the advantage is to the folks giving donations as they can deduct the offerings off their income for their income tax.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/11/2008 9:03:39 AM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
whether they are a business or not they take in alot of money. Not only that but since there is no real physical product to speak of they have no over head either. i call it fantastic
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/11/2008 11:44:46 AM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
oh cry me a river of overhead tear drops. It just doesnt wash my friend. In america churches have it made, ill agree that the personal deductions is a nice bonus for both sides though.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/11/2008 9:50:34 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 3003
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
|
Does Jesus' comand to "give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" apply to the church? If not, why not? What would happen if the government decided that decuctions for charitable contributions was costing the government too much money?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/12/2008 3:08:10 AM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
good point colliefan, that all i was really trying to say. I call it fantastic that churchs have such financial benefits and its great to be in a country with such religious freedoms.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/12/2008 9:18:59 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: tomhillbilly
good point colliefan, that all i was really trying to say. I call it fantastic that churchs have such financial benefits and its great to be in a country with such religious freedoms.
tomhillbilly,
If I came across as a little terse in my other post (which I have deleted), I apologize for misunderstanding your point.
Colliefan;
'
quote:
Does Jesus' comand to "give unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's" apply to the church? If not, why not? What would happen if the government decided that decuctions for charitable contributions was costing the government too much money?
I am sure that most Churches give unto Ceaser what Ceaser says the owe.
I honestly do not see where it would make a major difference to most Churchs if the "Tax exempt" status was removed. I do not believe that most folks give money for the express reason of dropping a tax bracket to save on their income taxes.
Most folks that I know use the "Deductable" to give more funds to charitable organizations or ministries of one sort or another.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/12/2008 9:39:24 AM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 3668
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
I just read that there is a movement by several "No on 8" groups to try and take away the tax exempt status of any churches who promoted "Yes on 8" here in California. Don't quite know how that would work since "Yes on 8" is based on biblical principles.
Things are getting dark and murky, folks!!!
One sad commentary out here in California is that the wrath of the Homosexual groups has been aimed primarily at the Mormon church because they believe the primary reason for the passage of Proposition 8 was the support of the Mormon church. Many of the Christian churches did little to nothing to support the proposition by comparison. Many churches here in California used this IRS rule as the basis for not endorsing Prop 4 or 8; however, the rule only applies to the support of candidates and not issues. I don't know if they were "intentionally" ignorant of the Law, or just misinformed, but is it a sad commentary on the church when a misinterpretation of IRS rules scares churches into remaining silent on biblical issues.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: TAX EXEMPT STATUS? - 11/12/2008 9:58:33 AM
|
|
|
tomhillbilly
Posts: 233
Joined: 3/18/2008
Status: offline
|
rcjames it would be a pretty significant difference if churches had to give a certain percentage off the top from everything they take in. An interesting thing to think about is would it be worth it if the lines of church and state wernt drawn in the sand and maybe there could be more of a fair balance for christians in every part of american life.
it seems the way it is now; in america at least, all christians can do is huddle in their churches for fear of "forcing religion on someone".
I think this is partly what benelchi was talking about in their post.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
