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Praying for our elected leaders - 11/8/2008 5:28:52 PM
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Strider33
Posts: 183
Joined: 4/24/2008
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There was a recent article (blog?, devotional?) in Christianity.com entitled "Confessions of A Bad Chrsitian". I think it's really worth reading, especially if you, like me, are having a hard time coming to to terms with the latest election.
Unfortunately, I don't know how to direct you to this article, or even whether you can still call it up. I hope someone else will fill in that info.
We should all be praying for our elected leaders, regardless of where those leaders might be in their walk with God. And we should all be praying for America. If nobody prays for America, then America hasn't got a prayer! (to coin a phrase).
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/8/2008 5:48:46 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
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Yes, we should pray for our new president and NOT attack him like the libs did with Bush. As Christians, we need to take take a step higher than those on this board who wave the christian flag while attacking their president. don't do it. Pray for him.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/9/2008 4:08:01 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
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To be fair, a lot of conservatives attacked and demonized Clinton as well, and many of the same ones are attacking Obama so neither side has clean hands in this matter.
The vitriol needs to stop-it is destructive, divisive, and so un-Christ-like. Whether you like an elected official or not, if you are a christian you are commanded to pray for him/her and to engage him/her with respect(good manners is what my mother calls it).
If we as Americans cannot come together for the common good and work with each other with grace, integrity, compassion, and the utmost respect(again- good manners), we will succeed only in the degradation, decay, and destruction of our nation and society. We need to show our elected leaders that we ourselves can do this before we expect them to follow suit. We the people need to set the standard.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/9/2008 4:19:42 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5958
Joined: 4/15/2005
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If people can't be called on the carpet for supporting a candidate I fail to see how people can be for what is arguably criticizing them... Sorry, to many times telling the truth is called vitriol because people don't wish to actually deal with things...
Yes, Christians are commanded to pray for leaders... Yet it seems other commands are optional... The president elect is an unjust man, I pray God will turn him, and or remove him...
What common ground do I have with Obama? The man has no grace, integrity, compassion, and the utmost respect for anything other than his personal desires...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/9/2008 6:03:56 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5800
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
To be fair, a lot of conservatives attacked and demonized Clinton as well, and many of the same ones are attacking Obama so neither side has clean hands in this matter.
Well goly-gee the "I did not have sex with that woman" Clinton deserved a little scorn.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/9/2008 7:01:57 PM
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rgod
Posts: 1776
Joined: 4/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
To be fair, a lot of conservatives attacked and demonized Clinton as well, and many of the same ones are attacking Obama so neither side has clean hands in this matter.
Agreed. Each side has attacked the other. Unfortunately, I don't think it is going to stop on a larger scale. But I do think that individuals can make the decision to stop. I've read through the posts in this forum and some people seem to have made the decision to do just that. It is heartening because it shows that as Christians, we can disagree with our leaders but still pray for them. To be honest, I wasn't the world's biggest fan of Bush, and there was a time I spoke negatively about him. God really chastised me for that a few years ago - and I can no longer talk about him badly (or any of my leaders for that matter - even locally) the way that I once could. Now, I just pray for him - I pray that he make wise decisions, I pray for he and his family's safety, that he be able to stand on the side of righteousness, I pray for the people around him, I pray for his well-being. There were whole periods of time when people were really attacking him - personal cutting attacks on his faith, his intelligence. At times he seemed intimidated - almost afraid to open his mouth - so hesitant. But, perhaps I was just reading into what I saw. Even as I disagreed with him on different issues, I felt led to pray for him, that people would be able to listen past grammatical errors to the content of what he was saying and that God would grant him increased insight and wisdom. Even now, though he is in the lame duck part of his term, there are still very important issues he has to deal with and I pray that he'll be able to handle the remaining issues skillfully.
Bush is just a man, just as Obama is - simply a man. Two men with great responsibility. Both need our prayers. Their teams need our prayers. I don't think that anyone can really fully comprehend this heavy load - to be the president - to feel the weight of the world on your shoulders - until you are there. Like I prayed for Bush, I've started to pray for Obama. Wisdom, righteousness, safety, health, wise counsel. All of these things and more - because as our leaders possess these things and lead the country, we are blessed. I pray that God will be glorified through both administrations. As the bible says, the prayer of a righteous man availeth much. I believe that.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/9/2008 7:06:51 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
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Does this include those who trashed Bush, made movies about him that was mostly hearsay and lies, not to mention a movie in which he was assasinated, accusing him of bringing down the twin towers and that he lied about Iraq?
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
To be fair, a lot of conservatives attacked and demonized Clinton as well, and many of the same ones are attacking Obama so neither side has clean hands in this matter.
The vitriol needs to stop-it is destructive, divisive, and so un-Christ-like. Whether you like an elected official or not, if you are a christian you are commanded to pray for him/her and to engage him/her with respect(good manners is what my mother calls it).
If we as Americans cannot come together for the common good and work with each other with grace, integrity, compassion, and the utmost respect(again- good manners), we will succeed only in the degradation, decay, and destruction of our nation and society. We need to show our elected leaders that we ourselves can do this before we expect them to follow suit. We the people need to set the standard.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/9/2008 7:10:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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Too bad there wasn't this great call to obey God's commands prior to the election... I am laughing now that some folks are calling for obedience after the fact...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 1:11:52 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3146
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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When Obama supports biblical principles I will support him.
If he has affairs with young interns and lies under oath in a sex case about it, I will call him on it.
If he appoints judges that are pro-abortion I will call him on it.
If he supports a gay marriage bill I will oppose it.
If he proposes changes to tax codes that punish the rich, I will be against it.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 6:32:26 AM
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Strider33
Posts: 183
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Neither side has clean hands, if conservatives and liberals are the sides. But Christ is not "one side" in the debate. And if we are to be followers of Christ, that's whom we should try to emulate.
Christ has clean hands. And Christ did not always speak in bland tones when addressing such people as the Pharisees. So, while pointless vitriol is unproductive and ungodly, so is mindless consensus and self censorship of genuine disagreement.
We should be praying for our elected leaders. It says so in the Bible.
We should not be fomenting or aggravating personal attacks that have nothing to do with public policy. But we should also be explicit about what direction we think the country should go in. And we should recognize that there are genuine disagreements about that, even among genuine Christians.
These are not simple matters.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 9:17:30 AM
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rgod
Posts: 1776
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
When Obama supports biblical principles I will support him.
If he has affairs with young interns and lies under oath in a sex case about it, I will call him on it.
If he appoints judges that are pro-abortion I will call him on it.
If he supports a gay marriage bill I will oppose it.
If he proposes changes to tax codes that punish the rich, I will be against it.
I'm not sure if you are implying that you won't pray for Obama because you feel he will make/has made ungodly decisions. I don't think that you are, but I would just like to say for the record that there is a huge difference between praying for someone and supporting decisions that you don't feel are biblical. The prayers that are spoken of are that the president have wise counsel, for his safety, that he would be able to handle domestic and international situations skillfully, that he would have advisor surrounding him that would be godly. We pray for our leaders - that if they do not know the Lord that they would come to know the Lord - and if they do know the Lord, we pray for a deepening walk with him. We pray that the Lord would touch the president's heart. Have you ever heard Charles Stanley's sermon on this topic called "How to Pray for a President?" It is significant that this sermon aired during the height of the Monica Lewinsky scandal, when a lot of christian leaders weren't responding in this way. Stanley, along with a few others (like Chuck Colson) responded differently - they did not dismiss the sin, but they talked about prayer, repentance, forgiveness and how we as believers should respond.
Even in our regular jobs - if you have a boss that you feel is making ungodly decisions, the godly response is for us is still to pray for them, even if we respectfully protest them. This is what we are called to do as Christians. I've been in environments like that and I have seen God move and work in ways that are astonishing. It reminds me that God is in ultimate control.
quote:
Too bad there wasn't this great call to obey God's commands prior to the election... I am laughing now that some folks are calling for obedience after the fact...
I personally heard a lot of people urging Christians to obey the Lord's commands prior the election. I also heard a lot of partisanship ... on both sides. I prayed for all of the candidates, but particularly for Obama and Palin during the campaign. It bothered me, as I think it should bother any Christian, that someone hung an effigy of Palin as a halloween "artistic expression." To me, I looked at this and felt like that should have been treated as a threat. The threats on Obama's life also bothered me greatly. I didn't hear anything about threats on McCain or Biden, but I prayed for them as well.
But, regardless, we are all called to obey the Lord - even if those around us seem not to. Most of the evangelical leaders that I've listened to seem to agree on this point - and most that I've heard have been reminding us the command to pray.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 9:23:57 AM
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rgod
Posts: 1776
Joined: 4/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
Does this include those who trashed Bush, made movies about him that was mostly hearsay and lies, not to mention a movie in which he was assasinated, accusing him of bringing down the twin towers and that he lied about Iraq?
Hi Dancre - I haven't seen the films you are referring to. Could you clarify? Are you talking about the Michael Moore "Farenheit 911" or "W" or something else? Also, were the people who made these films Christian? I think that it is absolutely horrible that someone would make a film about a sitting president being assassinated, particularly given our country's history in this area.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 9:45:00 AM
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P31W
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quote:
I'm not sure if you are implying that you won't pray for Obama because you feel he will make/has made ungodly decisions. I don't think that you are, but I would just like to say for the record that there is a huge difference between praying for someone and supporting decisions that you don't feel are biblical.
He knows that is that is WHY he selected the word "support" rather than "pray".
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 10:23:28 AM
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rgod
Posts: 1776
Joined: 4/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
I'm not sure if you are implying that you won't pray for Obama because you feel he will make/has made ungodly decisions. I don't think that you are, but I would just like to say for the record that there is a huge difference between praying for someone and supporting decisions that you don't feel are biblical.
He knows that is that is WHY he selected the word "support" rather than "pray".
That is what I thought, but the original post is about praying for the president. Because it was unclear to me, I prefaced the statement that I made by saying 'I'm not sure if you are implying that you won't pray for Obama because you feel he will make/has made ungodly decisions. I don't think that you are ...'
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 12:32:43 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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it is most unfortunate that we, the church, are called to do this AFTER THE FACT!!! but as the darkness spreads, so much more will the light be more luminous...if our enemy is in charge, then honor the king 1 Peter 2:17...pray for him and respect him...
and of course, continue to hope for people to notice the light...
People, it has been the church that has been the light that was passed, and God is unchanging, He still plans to use the church...let's be the light...and never forget that He is good, even during repenting...
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 2:46:31 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8038
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I pray for obama the same way I pray for all democrats. That God will save him and change him, or remove him permanently before he drags others into hell with him. His testimony and the fruit of his life paint him as anti-Christ.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 3:54:00 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If people can't be called on the carpet for supporting a candidate I fail to see how people can be for what is arguably criticizing them... Sorry, to many times telling the truth is called vitriol because people don't wish to actually deal with things...
Yes, Christians are commanded to pray for leaders... Yet it seems other commands are optional... The president elect is an unjust man, I pray God will turn him, and or remove him...
What common ground do I have with Obama? The man has no grace, integrity, compassion, and the utmost respect for anything other than his personal desires...
John, I didn't say that people shouldn't be held to account, but even then do so with respect and common courtesy.
We all have common ground of some kind... we need to be open to finding it. I'd say your assessment of the Prseident-Elect is a bit harsh unless you know him personally and are able to make it from close personal observation. It may be more prudent to withhold judgement while keeping a close watch. God's people should always temper our opinions and words with graciousness, should we not?
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 4:05:58 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
Does this include those who trashed Bush, made movies about him that was mostly hearsay and lies, not to mention a movie in which he was assasinated, accusing him of bringing down the twin towers and that he lied about Iraq?
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
To be fair, a lot of conservatives attacked and demonized Clinton as well, and many of the same ones are attacking Obama so neither side has clean hands in this matter.
The vitriol needs to stop-it is destructive, divisive, and so un-Christ-like. Whether you like an elected official or not, if you are a christian you are commanded to pray for him/her and to engage him/her with respect(good manners is what my mother calls it).
If we as Americans cannot come together for the common good and work with each other with grace, integrity, compassion, and the utmost respect(again- good manners), we will succeed only in the degradation, decay, and destruction of our nation and society. We need to show our elected leaders that we ourselves can do this before we expect them to follow suit. We the people need to set the standard.
It would include anything which is of that ilk. Slander and speculation serve no useful purpose and does not benefit society. If there is evidence which shows complicity with wrongdoing, then it needs to be made known to the public. I may not enjoy to hear someothing like that about someone I like, but I learned a long time ago that no one is perfect, that good men are capable of doing evil, that evil men are capableof doing good, and that humans are not qualified to put themselves in God's place and judge others, only the actions of others. Its one reason I've never idolized anyone.
To be honest, I seldom go to the movies and rarely watch TV, so I don't see most of this stuff you're talking about. I honestly prefer to read, and prefer books on history, science, and anthropology. Literature and the arts are close seconds.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 4:07:03 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
Neither side has clean hands, if conservatives and liberals are the sides. But Christ is not "one side" in the debate. And if we are to be followers of Christ, that's whom we should try to emulate.
Christ has clean hands. And Christ did not always speak in bland tones when addressing such people as the Pharisees. So, while pointless vitriol is unproductive and ungodly, so is mindless consensus and self censorship of genuine disagreement.
We should be praying for our elected leaders. It says so in the Bible.
We should not be fomenting or aggravating personal attacks that have nothing to do with public policy. But we should also be explicit about what direction we think the country should go in. And we should recognize that there are genuine disagreements about that, even among genuine Christians.
These are not simple matters.
Wado(thank you) Strider!
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 4:10:12 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
If he proposes changes to tax codes that punish the rich, I will be against it.
I think all tax loopholes should be closed to ensure that taxes are collected fairly. That would negate having to impose additional taxes on anyone.
I also support ending corporate welfare- McDonald's and Wal-mart DO NOT need government handouts.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 4:20:49 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 644
Joined: 7/14/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
To be fair, a lot of conservatives attacked and demonized Clinton as well, and many of the same ones are attacking Obama so neither side has clean hands in this matter.
Well goly-gee the "I did not have sex with that woman" Clinton deserved a little scorn.
Thanks
RC
Yeah, RC and I was as disappointed, embarrassed, and angry as anyone else over that. But while I voiced said feelings, I refrained from name-calling and other ugliness. It would have served no purpose and would violate the Lord's mandate to respect those in positions of authority.
If you folks were operating under Cherokee laws, the women elders could have immediately voted Pres. Clinton or any other elected official out of office for engaging in actions which dishonored their position. But no-o-o-o! White folks thought they could manage things better! 
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 4:23:10 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8038
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
If he proposes changes to tax codes that punish the rich, I will be against it.
I think all tax loopholes should be closed to ensure that taxes are collected fairly. That would negate having to impose additional taxes on anyone.
I agree. Go to a straight flat tax (10%) on everyone or go to a natioanl retail sales tax (preferred). That way EVERYONE contributes and no wealth redistribution happens.
quote:
I also support ending corporate welfare- McDonald's and Wal-mart DO NOT need government handouts.
for that matter, neither does anyone else. It is not government's role to take my money and give it to someone else.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 4:52:56 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1299
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
I pray for obama the same way I pray for all democrats. That God will save him and change him, or remove him permanently before he drags others into hell with him.
Ditto that...
Plus, I've begun, more often than ever, for protection from my elected leaders because I truly believe we're soon in for a whole different paradigm of what the government will try against it's citizenry in this country.
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Praying for our elected leaders - 11/10/2008 6:14:44 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5958
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
John, I didn't say that people shouldn't be held to account, but even then do so with respect and common courtesy.
The general consensus around here from one group was that whomever and whatever you support is out of bounds regarding right and wrong when it came to voting... God doesn't care, Free will, lessor of evils, and so on... It didn't matter if Obama is for abortion and or the homosexual agenda... A Christian could vote for Obama and those agendas without consequence because it's voting, and some others felt by some form of magic they could vote for Obama, but not for those specific agendas... 
And now some of those same folks are all of sudden speaking of God's commands... Oh you must submit.. Though given their views I believe it is more so submitting to the man than they are God's call to submit... Since they will ignore submitting to God, yet if it means submitting to their man, why by all means...
quote:
We all have common ground of some kind... we need to be open to finding it.
I don't seek common ground with those who justify the wicked(homosexuals) and condemn the just (the unborn).
The bible is quite clear about those who do such things... And to do it from an ordained place of authority only compounds the issue.
quote:
I'd say your assessment of the Prseident-Elect is a bit harsh unless you know him personally and are able to make it from close personal observation. It may be more prudent to withhold judgement while keeping a close watch.
I'd say you are sugar-coating... You have NO issue telling it like it is about the way you and your people have been treated and you have not met personally many of the people you spoke of...
I don't have to make a judgment about Obama's actions... He condemns himself due to his action...IOne doesn't have to be caught in the lie to be judged... God is doesn't buy into the excuses made for Obama, or anyone else for that matter. Those who murder are judged the moment they take life... Same with those who steal... Pointing out those two actions are wrong isn't passing judgment... And the fact that the man claims Christ only raises the bar... Yet there seems to be a call to LOWER the bar, and or altogether look the other way...
quote:
God's people should always temper our opinions and words with graciousness, should we not?
It's not my opinion that Obama is for abortion and homosexuality... He openly admits to it...He's got a voting record and quotes... He says homosexuality is an moral as heterosexuality, it's not choice, and was proud that his church recognizes same sex unions.... And it's not my opinion that both agendas strongly conflict with God's word... I am not going out on a limb here... I am not speculating... I am not talking about where he was born, if he's a Muslim, or any of those fringe issues... I am dealing with clear facts that cannot be refuted... What amount of graciousness will change the facts? How nice can I say the man is unjust? The bible speaks far more harshly than simply pointing out he's unjust... Abomination is used for those in power who are unjust...
If I an not telling the truth by all means point it out...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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