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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:15:15 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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Read the Book of Daniel where it says God puts up kings and takes them down.
God is always in control... but maybe you dont beleive in God's sovereignty.
God put up Pharaoh, Judas, and decreed that the most sinful event wouild happen - the death of his son on the cross.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:15:50 AM
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Mark328
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
"Obama i loved but Mccain I hated"
could that verse "jacob i loved but Esau i hated" be applied here to what happened. (no i am not making fun of scripture but trying to get you to see if there is a correlation)
i believe that Jesus said Render under to Caeser the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's.
also, my understanding of the bible is to obey those that have rulership over you, and honor the magistrates that God puts in power (as He is soveriegn).. however, if the magistrate tells you to sin, then you have to do what the apostle said "i'd rather obey God rather than man"
Good points other than the comparison of speech between Obama/McCain and Jacob/Esau. I respectfully disagree with that statement. Otherwise, you're dead on!
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:17:10 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Read the Book of Daniel where it says God puts up kings and takes them down.
God is always in control... but maybe you dont beleive in God's sovereignty.
So God forced Eve to eat the apple and sin?
Could Daniel have sinned? Or are we just puppets on a string doing only what God forced us to do?
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:17:37 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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ok well, im trying to make sense out of things. i know God is in control.. all politicians are under His command...
in Romans 9, God says he has mercy on whom he has mercy
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:18:31 AM
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P31W
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Either we have free will to sin and/or obey God or we don't.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:18:39 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Read the Book of Daniel where it says God puts up kings and takes them down.
God is always in control... but maybe you dont beleive in God's sovereignty.
So God forced Eve to eat the apple and sin?
Could Daniel have sinned? Or are we just puppets on a string doing only what God forced us to do?
wow i feel like im in the Calvinist/Arminian folder.
You sound like you believe in Arminianism. is that true?
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:18:53 AM
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TaoPoohBear
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
We only have to look at one of his many past behaviors to see what to expect of him in the future.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
He has a LOT of work to do to earn the trust of a LOT of Americans, and the second he starts reverting to his unbiblical tendencies of the past, I will be the first to drop the hammer on him.
Reading your comments in this context -
http://forums.christianity.com/So_the_media_is_taking_a_2_day_Hawaii_vacation%25%25%25/m_3924896/mpage_1/tm.htm#3928609
(since his Grandmother died the day BEFORE the election) I would say you both have some broken windows in your glass houses.
I'm inclined to believe that God spoke thru almost 65 Million Americans that America has been on the wrong path and needs to correct it's course.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:20:09 AM
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P31W
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I am on the fence. I can go either way.
Even Calvanist don't believe that God makes every choice in life for us.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:21:26 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
I am on the fence. I can go either way.
Even Calvanist don't believe that God makes every choice in life for us.
ok thank you..well if you remember what has been said in the Calvie/Arminian folderr you know where im coming from.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:34:22 AM
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Rockwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
God has once again choosen our President for us. Now it is up to us to follow God's intstruction. At this point no one can predict what Obama will and will not do. God picked Obama and he asks us to respect his choice. God leaves us the following instructions regarding leaders. The only question is are we going to honor them or ignore them. Then I ask just who are we to ignore them, but mere human beings. Are people going to continue to spew hate and division or are we come together and help get this nation back on its feet.
Carnal man chose Barack. Just as man chooses to engage in homosexuality, bestiality, murder, etc., man chose Barack as his president. Did God choose Hitler or did God ALLOW Hitler to come into power? Is God a vengeful God? I do not believe God brought Hitler into this world to punish man, but rather man's free will (at least in the begining) chose Hitler to be their leader.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:36:59 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
God has once again choosen our President for us. Now it is up to us to follow God's intstruction. At this point no one can predict what Obama will and will not do. God picked Obama and he asks us to respect his choice. God leaves us the following instructions regarding leaders. The only question is are we going to honor them or ignore them. Then I ask just who are we to ignore them, but mere human beings. Are people going to continue to spew hate and division or are we come together and help get this nation back on its feet.
Carnal man chose Barack. Just as man chooses to engage in homosexuality, bestiality, murder, etc., man chose Barack as his president. Did God choose Hitler or did God ALLOW Hitler to come into power? Is God a vengeful God? I do not believe God brought Hitler into this world to punish man, but rather man's free will (at least in the begining) chose Hitler to be their leader.
nothing happens without the ok of God. God used man's sinful evil nature to crucify the son of God, yet God ordained that would happen.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:38:37 AM
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P31W
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quote:
nothing happens without the ok of God.
Define "ok of God"?
Remember now there are Chruch leaders who molest innocent children in thier congregation. There are parents right here in the USA who sell their babies into prostitution. Under Hitler there were surgeries preformed for "fun" on children without giving them anything for pain or to put them to sleep for the surgery. Slavery was legal in this country as is abortion today.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:40:57 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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remember Jesus words to Pilate -
"you would have no power at all except it be given you from above".
now apply that to this election.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:41:34 AM
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P31W
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Can we apply it to parents who molest their children?
Define "ok of God"?
This is important.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:44:38 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Can we apply it to parents who molest their children?
Define "ok of God"?
This is important.
ok means "God decreed, God ordained, God declares, God chose,"
i.e. he is actively making his will come to pass, not just sitting by and allowing stuff to happen as if he is impotent.
God is omnipotent, omniscient.
Jesus said ALL POWER IS GIVEN ME UNDER HEAVEN AND EATH.
and also the bible says that jesus was given a name which is above every name, that at the name of jesus EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus christ is Lord.
obama is not lord.!!
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:46:19 AM
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P31W
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quote:
he is actively making his will come to pass
I agree with this.
God also told us that Satan is the ruler of "this world". Do you agree with that?
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:47:14 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
he is actively making his will come to pass
I agree with this.
God also told us that Satan is the ruler of "this world". Do you agree with that?
see above - i added a few more things.
satan is the prince of hte power of the air.
yet jesus said ALL power is iven me in heaven and earth
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:53:17 AM
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P31W
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quote:
Jesus said ALL POWER IS GIVEN ME UNDER HEAVEN AND EATH.
and also the bible says that jesus was given a name which is above every name, that at the name of jesus EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus christ is Lord.
obama is not lord.!!
Do you believe God allows us to do wrong/sin and then he allows us to suffer the consequences for our bad actions inorder to "accomplish His will"?
God ordained the institution of marriage. If I decide to marry another woman does that mean that God chose that woman for me to be my spouse? That God ordained that marriage and partner selection?
quote:
ok means "God decreed, God ordained, God declares, God chose,"
Remember you said that nothing can happen without the "ok of God" and that means that God decreeded, ordained, delcares or chose it")
< Message edited by P31W -- 11/7/2008 10:59:39 AM >
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:02:07 AM
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Rockwall
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: Rockwall
Carnal man chose Barack. Just as man chooses to engage in homosexuality, bestiality, murder, etc., man chose Barack as his president. Did God choose Hitler or did God ALLOW Hitler to come into power? Is God a vengeful God? I do not believe God brought Hitler into this world to punish man, but rather man's free will (at least in the begining) chose Hitler to be their leader.
nothing happens without the ok of God. God used man's sinful evil nature to crucify the son of God, yet God ordained that would happen.
Then you agree with my statement that God ALLOWED it to happen. There is a difference between saying that God allowed something to happen and saying that God chose something to happen.
That would be akin to saying that since we have millions of babies killed through abortion, and God is in charge, then God chooses for people to have abortions. Since men have sex with horses and dogs, then God chooses for men to have sex with animals. You are applying cause and effect in the wrong manner and nothing could be further from the truth. That is why I stated that carnal man made these decisions.
Nowhere did I say that God is not omnipotent, but I do say that he allowed it and if my understanding is wrong, please show me the way.
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:02:42 AM
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cow451
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Elections are not supernatural events. It's easy to pass off everything onto God. He didn't turn in a ballot and is not a citizen of any nation. I feel the same way now about it as I would had my preferred candidate won. W didn't get a free pass AFAIC because he was a professed born-again believer. President-elect Obama doesn't get an automatic stake to the heart, either. Government is secular and the US is not a theocracy.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:02:48 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
Jesus said ALL POWER IS GIVEN ME UNDER HEAVEN AND EATH.
and also the bible says that jesus was given a name which is above every name, that at the name of jesus EVERY knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus christ is Lord.
obama is not lord.!!
Do you believe God allows us to do wrong/sin and then he allows us to suffer the consequences for our bad actions inorder to "accomplish His will"?
God ordained the institution of marriage. If I decide to marry another woman does that mean that God chose that woman for me to be my spouse? That God ordained that marriage and partner selection?
quote:
ok means "God decreed, God ordained, God declares, God chose,"
Remember you said that nothing can happen without the "ok of God" and that means that God decreeded, ordained, delcares or chose it")
[/quote/]
Yes to your first question. "whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap"
Yes to your 2nd question. same verse as above. God has declared that you will do whatever is in your nature.. if you serve sin, you will commit sin. if you serve God you will not commit adultery. if you are in chirst your new nature wont allow you to commit adultery. your nature will not want to commit adultery.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:12:27 AM
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LabGuy
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How God's sovereign will and man's free will work out together is perhaps something we'll never completely understand in this life. But what is clear is that we are responsible for the choices we make, and that God's purposes will be accomplished no matter what.
Suffice to say that the election of Obama did not take God by surprise. He's not scrambling to come up with a "Plan B" to salvage His designs. God will work His will through Obama. Proverbs 21:1 - "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."
Of course, we don't know what God will do through him right now. It may be to bring some measure of judgment on this nation, or to purify the church through persecution. Then again, there is hope that He is giving the people what they want only to show them how bad that really is, and hopefully they will repent. All have Biblical precedent. And yes, I realize that some believe Obama will be a good leader, but his behavior and litany of positions that are antithetical to the Word of God cause many of us to severely doubt that outcome.
Nonetheless, God is still on the throne.
-Robb
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:16:07 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
How God's sovereign will and man's free will work out together is perhaps something we'll never completely understand in this life. But what is clear is that we are responsible for the choices we make, and that God's purposes will be accomplished no matter what.
Suffice to say that the election of Obama did not take God by surprise. He's not scrambling to come up with a "Plan B" to salvage His designs. God will work His will through Obama. Proverbs 21:1 - "The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."
Of course, we don't know what God will do through him right now. It may be to bring some measure of judgment on this nation, or to purify the church through persecution. Then again, there is hope that He is giving the people what they want only to show them how bad that really is, and hopefully they will repent. All have Biblical precedent. And yes, I realize that some believe Obama will be a good leader, but his behavior and litany of positions that are antithetical to the Word of God cause many of us to severely doubt that outcome.
Nonetheless, God is still on the throne.
RIGHT!
And remember, psalm 2.. ((read it for encouragement)))
And remember when the spies went to spy out the land of milk and honey,, the spies came back and said we are grasshoppers in thier site, but one Joshua said hey we can take the land" God did not like thier unbelief. lets not be like those 10 spies that came back with a bad report and scared the israelites.
-Robb
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:18:10 AM
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letusreason
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
God did not choose Obama anymore than he chose George Bush, Bill clinton , Hitler, or Gangus Kawn and you have no scripture to back this up though scripture does speak of setting some rulers in power and deposing of others. God does have a will but all things fit into it, and for you to try to cram God's will into what you chose is next to sacreligious.
Further more we get from luke....
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well then i guess you are saying a man has more power than God.
Thanks P31W
Conversely, A man's choice does not negate God's sovereignty.
Consequently, God's sovereignty rules over man's choices.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 11:27:07 AM
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letusreason
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IMA_CHRISTIAN, i do have to say , your bouncing around to different topics through the practice of exegesis is a little disturbing , not to mention difficult to understand and follow, even confusing. But I am trying to understand you.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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