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God has Choosen!!! - 11/6/2008 11:48:35 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 606
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God has once again choosen our President for us. Now it is up to us to follow God's intstruction. At this point no one can predict what Obama will and will not do. God picked Obama and he asks us to respect his choice. God leaves us the following instructions regarding leaders. The only question is are we going to honor them or ignore them. Then I ask just who are we to ignore them, but mere human beings. Are people going to continue to spew hate and division or are we come together and help get this nation back on its feet.
OBEYED (Rom. 6:17) hupakouo (hoop-ak-oo-oh); Strong’s #5219: To hear as a subordinate, listen attentively, obey as a subject, answer and respond, submit without reservation. Hupakouo was used particularly of servants who were attentive to the requests made of them and who complied. The word thus contains the ideas of hearing, responding, and obeying.
The New Testament also reflects Roman social-political order in calling for obedience to the state (Rom. 13:1-5) and, in later writings, obedience of slaves, children, and wives within the household (Eph. 5:21-6:9; 1 Pet. 2:13-3:7).
Romans 13:1-7
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Titus 3:1-9
1 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so 3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
1 Peter 2:13-15
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 12:09:42 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1129
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
God has once again choosen our President for us. Now it is up to us to follow God's intstruction. At this point no one can predict what Obama will and will not do. God picked Obama and he asks us to respect his choice. God leaves us the following instructions regarding leaders. The only question is are we going to honor them or ignore them. Then I ask just who are we to ignore them, but mere human beings. Are people going to continue to spew hate and division or are we come together and help get this nation back on its feet.
Acts 5:29 Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than men!"
God does not ask us to respect or honor or submit to sin. If Obama pushes for same-sex marriage and abortion, we are to reject it and stand for the truth.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 12:12:50 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1269
Joined: 10/25/2005
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So now that your guy won, you are suddenly taking the "love, peace, and hair grease" line and Scripture now becomes relevant again. Coming from others, I would heed the wisdom of Scripture without comment. But coming from you, campbe33, with your reputation of anger and rudeness here, this comes across as, "You'd all better bow to your new ruler or God will get you! I have the Bible, listen to me!!".
I knew how to respect my president and give honor to his office long before you decided to start being the conscience of the board, TYVM.
Obama doesn't have a clean slate to start with, far from it. He has a LOT of work to do to earn the trust of a LOT of Americans, and the second he starts reverting to his unbiblical tendencies of the past, I will be the first to drop the hammer on him.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 12:37:34 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5958
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
God has once again choosen our President for us. Now it is up to us to follow God's intstruction.
That would be to obey God above all others...
quote:
At this point no one can predict what Obama will and will not do.
People voted predicated on what he would do... One might not be able to predict what will happen but there is no reason to believe Obama will be any different on Jan 20th than he is right now... The man is unjust so there is no reason to believe he will not be unjust in the future.
quote:
God picked Obama and he asks us to respect his choice.
We are to respect that God has done so and we are to submit to what is lawful. Obama is not Kind Saul, David, or Solomon...
As well... Here are some VERSES about rulers...
Proverbs 16:12 It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.
Proverbs 25:5 Take away the wicked from before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness.
Proverbs 29:2 When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
Here's a nice one... Obama justifies the homosexual and condemns the unborn... The followng fits him like a glove...
Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
Some more....
Proverbs 18:5 It is not good to accept the person of the wicked, to overthrow the righteous in judgment.
Proverbs 28:4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them.
quote:
God leaves us the following instructions regarding leaders. The only question is are we going to honor them or ignore them.Then I ask just who are we to ignore them, but mere human beings
You left out the very important fact that Christian are only to submit to what is lawful... There is nothing in the verses that commands us to blindly obey and support the agendas of unjust rulers... Nothing...
quote:
Are people going to continue to spew hate and division or are we come together and help get this nation back on its feet .
How does one come together with a evil ruler? Using your logic the SS honored their leader as God intended and those who rebelled were wrong...
The following make it clear that before anything, or anyone, God is first...
1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 1:15:04 AM
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stephanos
Posts: 1029
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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God also appointed the leaders of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, ect to punish Israel, but then punished those nations and leaders for what they did to Israel. Confused? God wasnt. God lifted up people to punish His people, and then spit back out those who did not worship Him. Pharaoh could have after seeing the plauges fell on his knees worshiping the one true God, but he did not. Nebuchadnezzar could have held true to some of his pronouncements about God, and worshiped HIM and HIM ALONE, but he did not. Or we could look at Saul. There is no doubt that Saul is in hell right now for rejecting God. But David did kill the man who claimed to have mercifully killed Saul (in truth he was lying trying to gain favor for his mercy on the dying king...can you say backfired).
Moral of the story...Just because God appoints someone to an office, such as king/leader/president. Does not mean that that person worships the one true God, or that people should follow that leader at all. Scripture is my guide, and if the leader of my country does not follow scripture, while I will pray for him, I WILL NEVER FOLLOW HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 1:46:49 AM
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LabGuy
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Wow. Considering posts in other threads which cited clear guidance from God's Word that were completely brushed off, the OP just exploded my irony detector.
In any event, jbow already has a good thread on this topic. This one should probably be closed.
-Robb
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 8:04:15 AM
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macokjc
Posts: 291
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I don't believe for one instant that God chose this person. Since creating the world, He has made it clear that he has a perfect will, and a permissive will. He allowed the children of Israel to have a king, when He made it clear that it was not His will. He allowed them to choose Saul, when He made it clear He was not the best person for the job.
My take on this - America has been so numbed to sin, that they don't recognized it anymore. I think that this president-elect will unfortunately be what it takes to bring America to their knees. Just as the Israelites paid for hundreds and years for their selfish and ungodly choices when they picked a king, so will America.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 8:11:59 AM
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P31W
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Read about the selection of Saul as king.
God was their king and the people rejected Him. So he gave them what they "wanted" even though he warned them of the negative consequences of REJECTING GOD as their King.
Here is the rest of Romans 13 that "you failed" to post. It gives us the "purpose" of the government. Notice that it is in direct opposition to what God said it was for when it legalizes "murder" of the unborn and fails to "Punish" evildoers (evil doers according to God's defination not mine or yours or Obama's)
4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
11 And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 8:16:53 AM
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armydude
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Excellent point. God appointed Saul as king, but God was still the ultimate authority. Saul was eventually rejected as king, even though God had appointed him through Samuel.
_____________________________
May all of your troubles last no longer than your New Year's Resolutions!
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 8:19:03 AM
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P31W
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1 Samuel 8
7 And the Lord told him: "Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will do." 10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, "This is what the king who will reign over you will do: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your menservants and maidservants and the best of your cattle and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, and the Lord will not answer you in that day."[ /b]19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. "No!" they said. "We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles." 21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the Lord. 22 The Lord answered, "Listen to them and give them a king." Then Samuel said to the men of Israel, "Everyone go back to his town."
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:08:46 AM
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yustme
Posts: 359
Joined: 5/2/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
God has once again choosen our President for us. Now it is up to us to follow God's intstruction. At this point no one can predict what Obama will and will not do. God picked Obama and he asks us to respect his choice. God leaves us the following instructions regarding leaders. The only question is are we going to honor them or ignore them. Then I ask just who are we to ignore them, but mere human beings. Are people going to continue to spew hate and division or are we come together and help get this nation back on its feet.
OBEYED (Rom. 6:17) hupakouo (hoop-ak-oo-oh); Strong’s #5219: To hear as a subordinate, listen attentively, obey as a subject, answer and respond, submit without reservation. Hupakouo was used particularly of servants who were attentive to the requests made of them and who complied. The word thus contains the ideas of hearing, responding, and obeying.
The New Testament also reflects Roman social-political order in calling for obedience to the state (Rom. 13:1-5) and, in later writings, obedience of slaves, children, and wives within the household (Eph. 5:21-6:9; 1 Pet. 2:13-3:7).
Romans 13:1-7
1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
Titus 3:1-9
1 Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2 to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so 3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone. 9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.
1 Peter 2:13-15
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.
God has not chosen this man,the nation did.We were given a choose to make,and instead of voting according to Bible issues,the nation voted on the issue of economy.For every vote cast for Obama the nation gave him permission to murder more babies and said yes,with their vote,to the sin of homosexuality.
I will,as always,respect the OFFICE he will hold,but I will never respect his views.MY GOD,PLEASE HAVE MERCEY ON US ALL.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:12:31 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3146
Joined: 4/16/2005
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Lets make it a given that God did choose President Obama.
The next question is...for what purpose?
None of us know that now. I expect...we will find out.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:17:08 AM
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musicplayer
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No one can doubt for a second that this is anything but God's will. God IS in control. I could see his hand on this as soon as the financial meltdown occurred. Think about it. The financial crisis that is happening is a once in 80 year event. A financial newsletter I subscribe to put the odds of something like this happening at any given time at 1%. And this occurred just a month before the election, pushing Obama into the lead and into the oval office.
Whether we like it or not, this is all part of God's plan.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:20:44 AM
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P31W
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We need to clarify here the differance between God's "perfect will" and God's "permissive will".
God's perfect will is that I do not sin.
God's permissive will allows me to sin.
I agree with you that the financial melt down was inline with God's will. I see it as God showing his Children a choice to make. Worship God or money. The choice is ours to make. We cannot serve them both.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:26:56 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
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"Obama i loved but Mccain I hated"
could that verse "jacob i loved but Esau i hated" be applied here to what happened. (no i am not making fun of scripture but trying to get you to see if there is a correlation)
i believe that Jesus said Render under to Caeser the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's.
also, my understanding of the bible is to obey those that have rulership over you, and honor the magistrates that God puts in power (as He is soveriegn).. however, if the magistrate tells you to sin, then you have to do what the apostle said "i'd rather obey God rather than man"
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:28:21 AM
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P31W
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quote:
"Obama i loved but Mccain I hated"
could that verse "jacob i loved but Esau i hated" be applied here to what happened
?????????
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:35:45 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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it means God sovereinly decided who would win and who would lose, not based on anything but his sovereinty.
(((since the devil doesn't sneak anyone in anywhere).
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:40:29 AM
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P31W
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quote:
it means God sovereinly decided who would win and who would lose, not based on anything but his sovereinty.
So when the Children of Isreal disobeyed God and overthrew him as their King it was not really "them" who over threw God but God himself and the punishment God inflected on them was therefore unjust?
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:50:27 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
it means God sovereinly decided who would win and who would lose, not based on anything but his sovereinty.
So when the Children of Isreal disobeyed God and overthrew him as their King it was not really "them" who over threw God but God himself and the punishment God inflected on them was therefore unjust?
God is never unjust.
God is sovereign and always works his will ... "Man deviseth his plans, but God orders his steps"
God also has a conditional will and an unconditional will. Unconditional will means when God puts the stars exactly where he wanted them, that is where they went.. Conditional will is when God threatened to destroy the israelites when they worshipped the golden calf, but Moses pleaded for him and it repented God and he did not do as he previously decreed.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 9:54:56 AM
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letusreason
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God did not choose Obama anymore than he chose George Bush, Bill clinton , Hitler, or Gangus Kawn and you have no scripture to back this up though scripture does speak of setting some rulers in power and deposing of others. God does have a will but all things fit into it, and for you to try to cram God's will into what you chose is next to sacreligious.
Further more we get from luke....
Luke 1:52 He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble.
now which of the 2 do you suppose Obama most represents?
We only have to look at one of his many past behaviors to see what to expect of him in the future.
Not only did he vote against the surge in Iraq which was highly succesful, he arrogantly said if he had the choice all over again he would do the same, and why?
To review Obama's statements on the surge since it began is to understand why: pride.
Over and over again -- even after Gen. David Petraeus reported in late 2007 that the surge was working -- Obama said: It's not working. It won't work. It's a mistake. He essentially was betting his presidential hopes on the surge's failure.
Unfortunately for the 57 million of us that can see this, are now at the mercy of the 62 million LIVs that chose him.
_____________________________
Proverbs 16:2
All the ways of a man are clean in his own sight, But the LORD weighs the motives.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:12:32 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
God did not choose Obama anymore than he chose George Bush, Bill clinton , Hitler, or Gangus Kawn and you have no scripture to back this up though scripture does speak of setting some rulers in power and deposing of others. God does have a will but all things fit into it, and for you to try to cram God's will into what you chose is next to sacreligious.
Further more we get from luke....
.
well then i guess you are saying a man has more power than God.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: God has Choosen!!! - 11/7/2008 10:14:16 AM
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P31W
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So you believe it was God who chose Hitler and Pol Pot.
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