|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/6/2008 7:13:55 PM
|
|
|
mikejonesoftn
Posts: 75
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now? Maybe God could have sped up/slowed down the rate at which the Earth moves now?
*Curious thinking led to the question
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 5:20:11 AM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
I think a quick read of Genesis leads one to interpret "days" as 24-hour time periods. A more careful read may raise questions, such as having "morning and evening" without a sun and my interpretation that "morning and evening" does not constitute 24-hours but dawn to dusk or time of daylight (typical work day especially before electricity). There is also the use of "day" in Gen 2:4 to mean the whole creation period and the fact that the 7th day does not have morning and evening.
Anything is possible, but not everything is likely. To alter the movement of the earth to any significant amount would cause all sorts of problems with its relationship to the sun and moon, not to mention the geological and meteorological consequences. But anything is "possible."
Visit Answers in Genesis for more information. I don't agree with them regarding their interpretation of science or Genesis, but they have developed, I think, the best 144-hour model.
BTW, I beleive the "days" to mean long periods of time.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 9:10:12 AM
|
|
|
demolay
Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2008
Status: offline
|
If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend checking out what the AIG website says about this topic (www.answersingenesis.org). Ken Ham makes a case for a 24H day based upon how the Hebrew word "yom" (day) is used throughout the Bible. In short, he points out that any time "yom" is numbered, it is a literal day, and any time "yom" is associated with a morning or evening, its a literal day. In Genesis 1, we see both.
This works in English too. For example, if I said "In the day of the Pony Express...", "day" could span a long time. But "In the 1st day of the Pony Express...", "day" is a literal day. Likewise "From morning to evening in the 1st day of the Pony Express...", is even more explicit.
It reads to me that God knew this woud be controversial, and tried to be very clear for us in His Word.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 9:34:10 AM
|
|
|
demolay
Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2008
Status: offline
|
BTW, I also look to Exodus 20:11 where in the 4th commandment, written by the finger of God in stone, states "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth,...".
For me, I marvel and wonder why God took so long as 6 days to create the heavens and Earth. Could He not have done it faster, like "SNAP", here we are? Also, why did God have to rest on the 7th day? Was God tired? I think not, but rather God was setting a very profound and deep significance to 6 days and a 7th of rest. But that starts to get off-topic, so I'll stop there.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 11:01:19 AM
|
|
|
catfighter
Posts: 102
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline
|
The earth, along with the sun and the other planets were formed 4-5 billion years ago from hot gasses and cosmic debris being drawn together by gravity over millions of years. This process occurred 8 or so billion years after the universe came into being.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 11:03:57 AM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 3666
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: demolay
If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend checking out what the AIG website says about this topic (www.answersingenesis.org). Ken Ham makes a case for a 24H day based upon how the Hebrew word "yom" (day) is used throughout the Bible. In short, he points out that any time "yom" is numbered, it is a literal day, and any time "yom" is associated with a morning or evening, its a literal day. In Genesis 1, we see both.
This works in English too. For example, if I said "In the day of the Pony Express...", "day" could span a long time. But "In the 1st day of the Pony Express...", "day" is a literal day. Likewise "From morning to evening in the 1st day of the Pony Express...", is even more explicit.
It reads to me that God knew this woud be controversial, and tried to be very clear for us in His Word.
Here is the URL reference to Ken Ham's claim. The problem with this claim is that this is something he makes up, and in doing so he ends up contradicting himself. He starts out by saying:
“‘yom’ is actually the Hebrew word for day. Now it can have a number of different meanings, such as an ordinary 24 hour day, the daylight portion of a day, or time such as in the ‘day of the Lord’ or ‘in the time of the judges’”
So far he has been accurate, but then he goes on to make the following claim:
“What we have to work out is which meaning of ‘yom’ shall we use in this first chapter of the first book of the bible? Well, the rules of Hebrew grammar actually make it very easy to figure this out. Whenever the word ‘yom’ is used with a number, or the words evening or morning, or the word night it always means an ordinary day.”
The problem with this statement is that there is no such "Hebrew grammar rule". I personally spent six years studying Hebrew in the university, and I have continued my studies over the years since that time. And although I have nearly a dozen different Hebrew grammars on my bookshelf, I have never yet seen any evidence for the "grammar rule" on which Ken Ham basis his claim. Additionally, Ken Ham's own claim fails when we examine the evidence in Scripture. Remember he says that "the Day of the Lord" is a "period of time", and then he says that any time 'yom' is used with the word evening it is a literal 24 hour day. So what does he do with a verse like Zach 14:6-7 where "evening" is used when describing the "Day of the Lord"?
"On that day (yom) there will be no light, no cold, or frost. It will be a unique day (yom), without daytime (yom) or nighttime --- a day (yom) known to the Lord. When evening comes, there will be light." Zach. 14:6-7
Although there is some good info on Ham's site, it is difficult to know what to trust and what not to trust because Ham often plays fast and loose with the "facts" when it suits his purposes. Anything you find on that site must be double checked before you should ever trust it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 12:11:11 PM
|
|
|
cow451
Posts: 3951
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now? Maybe God could have sped up/slowed down the rate at which the Earth moves now?
*Curious thinking led to the question
The question is whether you are looking for a Biblical interpretation or whether you are trying to shoe-horn science into such an interpretation.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 12:22:06 PM
|
|
|
mikejonesoftn
Posts: 75
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now? Maybe God could have sped up/slowed down the rate at which the Earth moves now?
*Curious thinking led to the question
The question is whether you are looking for a Biblical interpretation or whether you are trying to shoe-horn science into such an interpretation.
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now?
Not that I doubt he did. Just was wondering if there was anything that may sort of hint it in the bible.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 12:36:13 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 3666
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now? Maybe God could have sped up/slowed down the rate at which the Earth moves now?
*Curious thinking led to the question
The question is whether you are looking for a Biblical interpretation or whether you are trying to shoe-horn science into such an interpretation.
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now?
Not that I doubt he did. Just was wondering if there was anything that may sort of hint it in the bible.
Wouldn't it be better to look to the bible first, and examine whether it really says creation was 6 literal 24 hour days, rather than to begin with that assumption and then look to the bible to try and prove it?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 1:34:58 PM
|
|
|
DanJames
Posts: 673
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now? Maybe God could have sped up/slowed down the rate at which the Earth moves now?
*Curious thinking led to the question
The question is whether you are looking for a Biblical interpretation or whether you are trying to shoe-horn science into such an interpretation.
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now?
Not that I doubt he did. Just was wondering if there was anything that may sort of hint it in the bible.
The rate at which the earth spins is very important to sustaining life. You're not going to get 4.8 billion years out of a week just by slowing the earth down. That would make our days pretty much a year, which would be very unfavorable to life.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 4:23:12 PM
|
|
|
MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
|
This is just something that came to my mind, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but hey.
If we assume that the 6 days of creation were actually longer periods than literal 24-hour days, then what do we do with the 7th, which becomes the basis for the Sabbath?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 5:10:45 PM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
Since the seventh day didn't have a "morning and evening," I believe we are living in it. On the seventh day God rested from creation and, as far as I know, nothing has been created since Adam and Eve.
Hebrews 4:1-11
Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,” although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”; and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.” Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”
For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
This is just something that came to my mind, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but hey.
If we assume that the 6 days of creation were actually longer periods than literal 24-hour days, then what do we do with the 7th, which becomes the basis for the Sabbath?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 5:27:20 PM
|
|
|
demolay
Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
If we assume that the 6 days of creation were actually longer periods
quote:
planets were formed 4-5 billion years ago
So, in these views, what do we make of the finger of God writing "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth..."? Was God just kidding us? Should our work week really be much longer than today?
Or in Mat 19:4, when Jesus was asked about divorce, He said "Haven't you read that in the beginning the Creator made them male and female" (refering to Gen 1:27). If I draw a timeline of billions of years, and put anyone's estimate of when man shows up on that timeline, then Jesus was wrong. More accurately he should have said "At the end the Creator made them male and female", since man shows up in the last hair's breath from the end of the timeline. Perhaps Jesus didn't know his history?
Or if you think it just HAS to take billions of years to create a universe, what about when God promises us a new heaven and earth? Will that also take billions of years, once He gets started?
When I ask folks why they think the age must be billions of years, it usually boils down to having had a long drink of the secular kool-aid of naturalism. They look for a naturalistic explanation. But the foundational presupposition of naturalism is "there is no God".
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 5:51:08 PM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: mikejonesoftn
Any biblical information that support that God created the Earth in a 24hr day that we all live in now?
Not that I doubt he did. Just was wondering if there was anything that may sort of hint it in the bible.
Wouldn't it be better to look to the bible first, and examine whether it really says creation was 6 literal 24 hour days, rather than to begin with that assumption and then look to the bible to try and prove it?
To answer mike, no, there is no mention of 24- or 144-hours of creation.
In response to benelchi, sometimes our understanding of God's revelation of His creation helps us better understand His word. The obvious examples are the flat earth belief and geocentricity. For MANY years, bible scholars believed the sun revolved around the earth. Even after astronomers and Foucault provided evidence to the contrary, some refused to believe and some continue to ignore the evidence.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 6:50:54 PM
|
|
|
MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
|
quote:
Since the seventh day didn't have a "morning and evening," I believe we are living in it. On the seventh day God rested from creation and, as far as I know, nothing has been created since Adam and Eve.
Hebrews 4:1-11
The problem with using Hebrews 4 to justify that view is that it only applies to believers. Non-believers have not entered the Sabbath rest described there.
Further, the author of Hebrews is describing something that came about after Christ, which would leave the time from Adam to Christ in time-line limbo, under your view.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 8:14:55 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 3666
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: online
|
quote:
Or in Mat 19:4, when Jesus was asked about divorce, He said "Haven't you read that in the beginning the Creator made them male and female" (refering to Gen 1:27). If I draw a timeline of billions of years, and put anyone's estimate of when man shows up on that timeline, then Jesus was wrong. More accurately he should have said "At the end the Creator made them male and female", since man shows up in the last hair's breath from the end of the timeline. Perhaps Jesus didn't know his history?
This is simply nonsense. Nobody uses vocabulary this way!
I know people who started with Yahoo in the very beginning, and yet they technically were not hired until the very end of the beginning of Yahoo, but that is a detail that nobody every worries about making clear when talking about their work history. Even in today's language nobody speaks (except maybe a lawyer) in such a way as to cover themselves from every possible misinterpretation, and in the first century they were even less concerned that people would try and twist their words in this way.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/7/2008 8:40:09 PM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Since the seventh day didn't have a "morning and evening," I believe we are living in it. On the seventh day God rested from creation and, as far as I know, nothing has been created since Adam and Eve.
Hebrews 4:1-11
The problem with using Hebrews 4 to justify that view is that it only applies to believers. Non-believers have not entered the Sabbath rest described there.
Further, the author of Hebrews is describing something that came about after Christ, which would leave the time from Adam to Christ in time-line limbo, under your view.
It is my understanding that Christ always existed and that the patriarchs/prophets/judges, etc. were justified by faith in God. Wasn’t their hope in the Messiah? It was prophesied of Him back in Gen 3:15.
Since the "Sabbath" day has no morning and evening, it must be different from the other six days. The believers' ability to enter that rest "day" does not mean it did not exist, or does it?
Perhaps it would be wise to heed Augustine's warning:
"Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn...For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. (1 Timothy 1.7)"
- St. Augustine, (A.D. 354-430), The Literal Meaning of Genesis
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/8/2008 10:46:35 AM
|
|
|
demolay
Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Benelchi: I know people who started with Yahoo in the very beginning, and yet they technically were not hired until the very end of the beginning of Yahoo, but that is a detail that nobody every worries about making clear when talking about their work history.
I'm sorry, but I'm not understanding your meaning here. How do you define "beginning" or "end of beginning" except in terms of relative points of a timeline? Perhaps I did not make myself clear.
Just making up dates here, but if yahoo "began" in 1980 and your friend was hired in 1981, then I agree; your friend hired at "the end of the beginning" relative to today, 2008.
But if yahoo "began" in 12 billion B.C. and your friend was hired in 1981, then it would simply be wrong to claim he was hired "from the beginning" or even "the end of the beginning" of yahoo. Yahoo would be incomprehensibly ancient, and your friend's DOH no where near "the beginning" of it.
Likewise, if creation "began" in 12 billion B.C. and Adam/Eve were created in 4,000 B.C (or even 100,000 B.C for you O.E.ers), for Jesus to speak of their creation "in the beginning" would simply be wrong. Personally, I find it much more likely to believe the ancient timeline is wrong rather than Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/8/2008 5:19:15 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 443
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
Shabbat shalom, ot4christ.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ot4christ
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Since the seventh day didn't have a "morning and evening," I believe we are living in it. On the seventh day God rested from creation and, as far as I know, nothing has been created since Adam and Eve.
Hebrews 4:1-11
The problem with using Hebrews 4 to justify that view is that it only applies to believers. Non-believers have not entered the Sabbath rest described there.
Further, the author of Hebrews is describing something that came about after Christ, which would leave the time from Adam to Christ in time-line limbo, under your view.
It is my understanding that Christ always existed and that the patriarchs/prophets/judges, etc. were justified by faith in God. Wasn’t their hope in the Messiah? It was prophesied of Him back in Gen 3:15.
Since the "Sabbath" day has no morning and evening, it must be different from the other six days. The believers' ability to enter that rest "day" does not mean it did not exist, or does it?
Perhaps it would be wise to heed Augustine's warning:
"Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn...For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. (1 Timothy 1.7)"
- St. Augustine, (A.D. 354-430), The Literal Meaning of Genesis
At the end of the Shabbat (Shabbas or Sabbath), it is important that we remember what the Shabbat is! Jews count days from sunset to sunset, with the sighting of the first three stars each evening. Thus, Shabbat starts from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.
Here are some well-rehearsed verses about the Shabbat:
Ex 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV
Ex 31:13-17
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
KJV
Ex 35:1-3
1 And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them.
2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.
KJV
Lev 23:3
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
KJV
Deut 5:12-15
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
KJV
Isa 66:22-24
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
KJV
Thus, there will ALWAYS be a day of rest, even in the "new heavens (skies) and the new earth." In fact, "shabbat" means "to repose" or "to desist from exertion." Even as it is presented in B'reshiyt (Genesis) 1 and 2, it was not because God "had to rest" (absurd); it was a holiday! a celebration celebrating the finished work of creation!
The seventh day had an evening (eretz) and a morning (boker), even if they were not mentioned, because there was then an eighth day (or a new first day). Our week, started for our ancestors, was a weekly celebration of the events of Creation.
Moshe's book beginning with "Sh'mot" (Exodus) is very specific: "For in six days YHVH made the heaven and the earth," and then compares them to the six days in which they were to work during the week.
Augustine aside, it's lunacy to suggest that they were anything but six literal, 24-hour days. Even Yeshua` believed that they were six literal days!
Retrobyter
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/8/2008 8:41:32 PM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shabbat shalom, ot4christ.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ot4christ
Since the "Sabbath" day has no morning and evening, it must be different from the other six days. The believers' ability to enter that rest "day" does not mean it did not exist, or does it?
At the end of the Shabbat (Shabbas or Sabbath), it is important that we remember what the Shabbat is! Jews count days from sunset to sunset, with the sighting of the first three stars each evening. Thus, Shabbat starts from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.
Retrobyter
Thanks for the greeting and back at ya. Thanks also for the Shabbat lesson.
If Shabbat is from sunset to sunset, thus constituting a day, doesn’t that make the creation days’ “morning” and “evening” only 12-hours or so? Granted, they are still “days” for God clearly created everything in six days (the bible just doesn’t mention how many hours).
Regarding the Sabbath, it is not limited to “sunset to sunset.”
Leviticus
25:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying,
25:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.
25:3 Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof;
25:4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
It is very possible that God created the universe in 144-hours or instantaneously. That would simply mean that what we see in His creation just appears older than it is. Some would argue that it doesn’t appear old to them and that’s fine, but it does to me.
I do agree with Augustine where he writes that “It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn.”
Before being born-again, I was an agnostic astronomy buff and considered a young universe to be an incredibly absurd notion and would laugh those who spoke of such things to scorn. It wasn’t until I learned that alternative interpretations of Genesis’ creation account existed that I was willing to consider other “evidences” of a Creator and Savior. While I no longer consider a young universe an absurd notion from a theological viewpoint (nor do I laugh at those with that belief), I see many problems from geology, paleontology, and especially astronomy. Believe me, I would love to believe in a young universe. As it stands, I am kind of fearful that my “day-age” beliefs will be discovered by folks at my church (only a few know). Many there have been taught by YEC organizations that people with my type of beliefs border on the heretical if not outright heretics.
Let science describe the creation. I am confident that with the proper interpretation of both scientific discoveries and the bible, the bible will always be upheld. As has been mentioned before, biblical interpretations have changed to accommodate “science.”
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/9/2008 11:29:41 AM
|
|
|
7OFUS
Posts: 22
Joined: 11/5/2008
Status: offline
|
Adam was created on day six. Gen 5 :5 says 'So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
Adam lived to the end of day six and all of day seven. If days six and seven were more than 24 hour periods this verse makes no sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/9/2008 4:20:35 PM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 7OFUS
Adam was created on day six. Gen 5 :5 says 'So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years and he died.
Adam lived to the end of day six and all of day seven. If days six and seven were more than 24 hour periods this verse makes no sense to me.
Good point. I’ll have to give it some thought. If the creation week is 144-hours, then practically none of Genesis 1 makes sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/9/2008 4:32:26 PM
|
|
|
LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2504
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
Ge 2:4 - Show Context
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
2Pe 3:8 - Show Context
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
In Genesis above it gives as Moses said is gives a history of the of the heavens and the earth when they were created
Moses said when they were created and goes on to say in “the day”… that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, = all 7
SO… if and a thousand years as one day then the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created is 1000 years.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/9/2008 6:27:19 PM
|
|
|
MrFribbles
Posts: 1886
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
|
LoyalGypsy,
Your interpretation is taking 2 Peter 3:8 grossly out of context. If we were to follow that train of thought, then Christ was in the grave for three thousand years.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Earth Creation - 24hr Days - 11/9/2008 8:55:12 PM
|
|
|
ot4christ
Posts: 185
Joined: 8/29/2008
From: Beside the Smoky Mountains
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
LoyalGypsy,
Your interpretation is taking 2 Peter 3:8 grossly out of context. If we were to follow that train of thought, then Christ was in the grave for three thousand years.
I think the point made by Peter is that God is outside of time. To Him, a millennium is as a day or a second or yesterday (cf. Psalm 90:4). Just a thought, but this being the case, the “day” in Gen 2:4 could be such an example: a day, a week, 14 billion years, it’s all the same to God.
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
