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RE: House of Israel - 10/30/2008 9:45:32 PM
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deborlie
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I have be waiting for a question something like this. I hope my sleepy eyes aren't deceiving me about the question being asked.
I mess around in genealogy, and was introduced to it by my brother. This brother of mine got to messing around the internet and traced our line back to Adam and Eve.
Yep, you read right.
Using others research with what we already know. (Uh huh here come the doubters.)
The claim is if you can match up with royalties you can trace right on back.
Yes, our line goes thru Judah, and Leah is a grandmother of mine.
From Judah's oldest son, I believe, our line branches away from the line where Jesus is found. I don't have the facts in front of me, at the moment, but I could bring it up for your veiwing., if you have a need. It is long,...... and what is hard to believe is that there is only about 140 some generations between myself and Adam. May have to correct the exact generations, but I was impressed as to how few there were.
Whether all of this is absolute or not. Whether you can believe this or not is really immaterial to the subject. Though the possibility is still a wonder.
I do think that it is only the human race that has lost those tribes. God knows very well who and where they are. Consider, ........you very well may belong to one of those tribes yourself, and not even be aware, after all Abraham was to be the father of many........... Why not?
Are you ready to be used accordingly?
The line I supposedly share, is not a pure line, as one would want to find. Whether or not it is from Judah or not, I have to agree with one other who suggested there are only two tribes after the Cross, one who believes and one who doesn't.
I think RC is right on, Jesus Christ is the only. And perhaps this would be the deciding factor in selecting who occupies those tribes in that day.
So much for what I know.
God love ya!
BJ
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 1:34:05 AM
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Bluethread
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In looking at this one must look at earthly blessing apart from eturnal blessing. If a decendant of Jacob is saved, that provides no difficulty. I know of no one who would say such an one would not be blessed. However, what of the errent Isrealite. Would Adonai bless such an one for that which he gets right in this life even if he recieves no blessing in the afterlife. The prophets give us several examples of persons who were not decendants of Israel being blessed in this life by Adonai. Sometimes it is for doing as Adonai wishes in certain areas and sometimes the only explanation is that that person is blessed for the sake of Adonai's purposes. If this is the case for those who are outside of the house of Israel, why could it not be the case for those in the house of Israel?
I just realized, there are curses that are part of the promise to Israel if they do not obey. However, even under those curses, could Adonai not reward the good behavior, no matter how small, of an apostate decendant, for the sake of His own name?
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 7:50:03 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Would that include the decendents that have lived and died before the millenuum;
RC...I've struggled with that issue, let me ask you a question; what is the meaning of the statement in Heb 12:16 when it says Esau traded his birthright? What birthright did he trade? Was it to be the chosen decedent of Issac?
Bob
I think the lieteral reading of that would be that he traded his inheritance as first born son, now folks can reasd as much "Prophetic" meaning into it as they want to.
I do hope Ezra responds to my question about the Jews that live and die in the here and now without Christ. I would really like to know his and your opinion.
The part about 'All Israel" has cause a lot of folks to be confused when tied to 'Christ is the only way'.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 8:59:31 AM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
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RC-
I'm not going to speak for Ezra, but I must say that your two questions to him didn't really make sense to me. I'm not sure what it was in his or any post that prompted you to ask. Nobody suggested that Christ was not the only way to be saved, or that non-believing Jews that have died would be resurrected to salvation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
Ezra was supporting what I and some others on this thread understand-- God has promised that someday the 10 lost tribes will be found and reunited with Judah. It's in the prophets. Being saved is a different matter.
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 9:13:44 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
RC-
I'm not going to speak for Ezra, but I must say that your two questions to him didn't really make sense to me. I'm not sure what it was in his or any post that prompted you to ask. Nobody suggested that Christ was not the only way to be saved, or that non-believing Jews that have died would be resurrected to salvation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
Ezra was supporting what I and some others on this thread understand-- God has promised that someday the 10 lost tribes will be found and reunited with Judah. It's in the prophets. Being saved is a different matter.
The passage I was alluding to is;
(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
And how that it is compared to "Jesus is the only way".
And looking for what some of the fine learned folks on this thread consider 'All Israel" to encompass; every decendent of Israel that ever was, the remnant that will be left, and is the 144,000 what some consider the passage to mean.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 9:41:43 AM
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bob97
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Doesn't the words of Christ tell the whole story?
Mat 23:39 For I tell you this, you will never see Me again until you say, 'Blessings on the One who comes in the name of the LORD!'"
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 9:59:28 AM
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DaveW
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Actually the phrase is "baruch haba b'shem Adonai" and comes from the first century wedding ceremony.
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.
It means that Jerusalem (and by extension the Jewish people) will not see His return until a critical mass of them welcome HIM as a bride welcomes the coming of her groom.
BTW, on the 2nd coming His foot puts down on the Mout of Olives - on the outskirts of Jerusalem.
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Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 10:33:27 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 2483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
FYI, there is a contigent of orthodox Jews in Israel currently trying to find the lost tribes. They believe they have in fact found a couple pockets of them in Ethiopia, India, and Japan, if memory serves. They found people who have been following Jewish custom for generations without knowing why. It's pretty interesting.
Yeap! Rich stuff. Entertaiment value of such searchings and reports is unmatched. Globe And National Enquierer dont even come close.
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 10:37:25 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 2483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I just realized, there are curses that are part of the promise to Israel if they do not obey. However, even under those curses, could Adonai not reward the good behavior, no matter how small, of an apostate decendant, for the sake of His own name?
I would agree. I was always confident, and that is the belief that my parents always had, that any apostate descendant that tries to obey Gods Laws will be rewarded here and now, in this life.
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 2:53:40 PM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
FYI, there is a contigent of orthodox Jews in Israel currently trying to find the lost tribes. They believe they have in fact found a couple pockets of them in Ethiopia, India, and Japan, if memory serves. They found people who have been following Jewish custom for generations without knowing why. It's pretty interesting.
Yeap! Rich stuff. Entertaiment value of such searchings and reports is unmatched. Globe And National Enquierer dont even come close.
It's hard to tell in this medium, but I think I'm being mocked. If that's the case, I really don't appreciate it. This isn't tabloid stuff, it's real. One of the people involved is a close personal friend of my family.
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 2:55:18 PM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
RC-
I'm not going to speak for Ezra, but I must say that your two questions to him didn't really make sense to me. I'm not sure what it was in his or any post that prompted you to ask. Nobody suggested that Christ was not the only way to be saved, or that non-believing Jews that have died would be resurrected to salvation. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
Ezra was supporting what I and some others on this thread understand-- God has promised that someday the 10 lost tribes will be found and reunited with Judah. It's in the prophets. Being saved is a different matter.
The passage I was alluding to is;
(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
And how that it is compared to "Jesus is the only way".
And looking for what some of the fine learned folks on this thread consider 'All Israel" to encompass; every decendent of Israel that ever was, the remnant that will be left, and is the 144,000 what some consider the passage to mean.
Thanks
RC
I know you were referring to that passage. What I don't understand is why you brought it up. It really didn't have any bearing on the subject at hand. We were talking about the reunification of Israel and Judah, not about how many Jews will be saved.
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 3:24:29 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
I know you were referring to that passage. What I don't understand is why you brought it up. It really didn't have any bearing on the subject at hand. We were talking about the reunification of Israel and Judah, not about how many Jews will be saved.
I brought it up because the subject of the thread is "House of Israel". And I ask are they as a whole going to be saved or not?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: House of Israel - 10/31/2008 6:30:55 PM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
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Sorry, I guess I misunderstood you. It sounded like you were challenging something, and I couldn't figure out what that was.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/1/2008 4:06:46 PM
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Odeliya
Posts: 2483
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
It's hard to tell in this medium, but I think I'm being mocked. If that's the case, I really don't appreciate it. This isn't tabloid stuff, it's real. One of the people involved is a close personal friend of my family.
There are people who regularly spot Elvis pumping gas at gas station in Kenosha, WI,believe in little green men from Mars periodically abduct them and those that already buying cement to rebuild the Temple.
"Looking for tribes" and "reb. the Temple" ideas, just like Elvis and UFOs, are not new whatsoever, they been going on since forever and will exist long after we both turn into dust. Usually that's done for political or cheap sensationalism reasons. Some travel over the world and spotting Eskimo that do have words similar to Hebrew, and Ivrit-resembling –tongue speaking Bushmen in the jungle.
If one really wants to see or find something, he will see/find it, like Virgin Mary in a sandwich .Some sicko Ulra-orthodoxes translate "brit – ish" as "man of the covenant" claiming that brits are a lost tribe, too..
"Amishav" org. that nutzo-rabbi Eliahu Avihil created in 1975 identifies "lost Sons of Israel" in most unlikely places – India,pushtuni tribes, Burma, China, etc. toying with the whole idea of a new wave of immigration. But even Knesset, being idiotic and slow by definition, did put some legal limitations on their wild fantasies.
So, my dear friend, I meant no mockery of you at all. I agree with what Lapidoth said- nobody knows what and how. I am not denying your position. But if anyone gathers ( which I don’t see Biblical support for, but I'm not dogmatic here,) it will be God. Not a bunch of attention craving crooks.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/2/2008 8:16:39 AM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
It's hard to tell in this medium, but I think I'm being mocked. If that's the case, I really don't appreciate it. This isn't tabloid stuff, it's real. One of the people involved is a close personal friend of my family.
There are people who regularly spot Elvis pumping gas at gas station in Kenosha, WI,believe in little green men from Mars periodically abduct them and those that already buying cement to rebuild the Temple.
"Looking for tribes" and "reb. the Temple" ideas, just like Elvis and UFOs, are not new whatsoever, they been going on since forever and will exist long after we both turn into dust. Usually that's done for political or cheap sensationalism reasons. Some travel over the world and spotting Eskimo that do have words similar to Hebrew, and Ivrit-resembling –tongue speaking Bushmen in the jungle.
If one really wants to see or find something, he will see/find it, like Virgin Mary in a sandwich .Some sicko Ulra-orthodoxes translate "brit – ish" as "man of the covenant" claiming that brits are a lost tribe, too..
"Amishav" org. that nutzo-rabbi Eliahu Avihil created in 1975 identifies "lost Sons of Israel" in most unlikely places – India,pushtuni tribes, Burma, China, etc. toying with the whole idea of a new wave of immigration. But even Knesset, being idiotic and slow by definition, did put some legal limitations on their wild fantasies.
So, my dear friend, I meant no mockery of you at all. I agree with what Lapidoth said- nobody knows what and how. I am not denying your position. But if anyone gathers ( which I don’t see Biblical support for, but I'm not dogmatic here,) it will be God. Not a bunch of attention craving crooks.
Maybe you're not meaning to, but you're being incredibly insulting. You just called my friends crooks. Thanks a lot. For your information, they are not craving attention. This is a very quiet underground thing, and the only reason I know about it is my family's close relationship with this couple. And the group is not making big declarations. They are carefully studying these people, trying to piece together some background information. I said they believe they may have found some of the 10 lost tribes. I didn't make any definite claims, and neither do they.
The scriptural support for the reunification is in black and white. It's mentioned all over the place in the prophets, but I think the biggest passage is in Ezekiel 37:15-23.
Of course it will be God who performs the reunification. But God often works through people, does he not? Are you expecting a pillar of fire?
You've been incredibly rude and jumped to some unfair conclusions about my friends. You can think whatever you like, but to come on the forum and say this is really too much. I made one little comment because I thought people might find it interesting. If you didn't like it, you could have said so without the sarcasm and insults. I'd appreciate an apology, but I'll settle for your continued silence on the matter.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/2/2008 2:33:41 PM
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Odeliya
Posts: 2483
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Oh, spare me the drama.
Re-read my post. Seems like you totally , absolutely missed the point of it.
I don’t know if your friends are crooks, we haven’t been introduced. I have not even addressed their views or acts. I however, given names, organization names, dates and respective acts of those who I called the crooks. I stand by the words I use.
Their goals are not honorable, their ways despicable.In essence they are very anti-Israel.
The afr- american sect of "Black Israelis" that exists in USA and tries to pass for some lost tribes is also in fact , very anti-Semitic.
I explained how widespread the whole deal is , it is considered largely a big, continuous scam in scientific and religious community.
And it usually is.
Now, listen please – This. Is. A. Public. Forum. Holding and expressing an opinion that is different from yours is not only allowed and is not considered an insult .
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/2/2008 3:30:06 PM
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JStucki76
Posts: 116
Joined: 12/14/2006
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Maybe you should reread my post. I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. I said straight out that if you didn't like what I said, you could say so without being insulting.
You have indicted any idea of finding the lost tribes as some sort of crooked scheme just because some people took a wrong approach. You didn't allow at all that someone might be doing it right. That's why I insist that you have been rude and insulting, and jumped to unfair conclusions. If you're going to backpedal now about what you said instead of apologizing, and then throw it back in my face, forget it. Just leave me alone.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/2/2008 9:20:48 PM
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prophet
Posts: 692
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quote:
(Rom 11:26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
This is similar to Zech 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Zech 13
1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land............they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
IMO that ALL Israel at that point of time shall be saved from their physical troubles....physical deliverance which then leads to spiritual deliverance unto faith.
Then there is the Israel of God which includes ALL believers of the new covenant, jews and gentiles alike..as described in Romans of the olive tree
Gal 6
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/3/2008 12:12:27 AM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: JStucki76
It's hard to tell in this medium, but I think I'm being mocked. If that's the case, I really don't appreciate it. This isn't tabloid stuff, it's real. One of the people involved is a close personal friend of my family.
There are people who regularly spot Elvis pumping gas at gas station in Kenosha, WI,believe in little green men from Mars periodically abduct them and those that already buying cement to rebuild the Temple. . .
So, my dear friend, I meant no mockery of you at all. I agree with what Lapidoth said- nobody knows what and how. I am not denying your position. But if anyone gathers ( which I don’t see Biblical support for, but I'm not dogmatic here,) it will be God. Not a bunch of attention craving crooks.
He must have hit a nerve here. It is unlike you to be so dismissive. Admittedly you both have points to make, but we need to be careful not to call someone a fool. After all, there is a possibility they could be right. As I stated earlier, JStucki76's conjecture is no more outlandish than what is presented on a daily basis on NatGeo. Given we compare all things to the Scriptures, I would be interested in giving this theory a look see.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: House of Israel - 11/3/2008 9:04:14 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 2483
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
You didn't allow at all that someone might be doing it right .
No,I didn’t say that. I specifically said-
usually…
some…..
i've given specific names , org details, dates, explanations of who does it as a scam. Most people i have seen so far were sheer scammers or simply delusional. Their goals are laughable at best and sinister at worst.
I haven’t met your friends and haven’t critisized their position. MAybe they are an exception to the rule. That is why i specifically never used the word all, as you claim
You jump into wrong generalizations.
quote:
That's why I insist that you have been rude and insulting. again – Disagreeing with you is not considered neither rude not insulting on this forum.
Please consult the TOS rules to see for yourself.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: House of Israel - 11/3/2008 10:14:34 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2019
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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Here is a interesting discussion on "And So All Israel Will Be Saved"
http://www.presence.tv/cms/allisrael.php
Can't say I agree with all of it but who knows.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: House of Israel - 11/3/2008 9:28:42 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1826
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quote:
I do hope Ezra responds to my question about the Jews that live and die in the here and now without Christ. I would really like to know his and your opinion.
RC:
When Paul says that "All Israel shall be saved", he has already explained that only those who believe God and believe the Gospel are saved. This is called "a remnant according to the election of grace" (Rom. 11:5). Therefore Jews who live here and now without Christ remain in their lost condition and will be eternally separated from God.
However, when Christ returns to this earth, He will come to judge the nations and to redeem and restore the nation of Israel, when He will "turn away ungodliness from Jacob". It will also be at this time that all the tribes will be restored to Israel.
We know that during the Tribulation, there will be a believing remnant of Jews (Rev. 12:17). Perhaps every tribe will be represented among them, just as every tribe is represented among the 144,000 (Rev. 14:1-5). If that is the case, then this believing remnant according to the election of grace at that time will constitute "all Israel" or to paraphrase "all redeemed descendants of Jacob from all 12 tribes at Christ's Second Coming".
The other scenario could be that the unsaved Jews and Gentiles (from the lost ten tribes) who have survived the Great Tribulation (along with the believing remnant) will actually repent and be converted when they see their Messiah at the Second Coming .
We do not know whether the Second Coming of Christ to Israel will trigger a genuine national repentance among the Jews who have gone through the tribulation, but we do read "every eye shall see Him, AND THEY ALSO WHICH PIERCED HIM: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him" (Rev. 1:7). It is the Jews who caused Him to be pierced, thus they indirectly "pierced Him".
If this is case, then the whole nation of Israel could repent on that day, and thus it would literally fulfill the prophecy that "All Israel shall be saved" when the Deliverer comes. Just as "all Nineveh" was saved through the preaching of Jonah, "all Israel" could repent when they see Christ coming in all His glory and majesty.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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