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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/26/2008 7:19:18 PM
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creationtalk
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quote:
However, we cannot take the qualifications of an apostle from Acts 1:21-22 because it would disqualify Paul. (He didn't "accompany" the twelve while they were with Jesus) He only witnessed the resurrected Christ.
Actually I think that you will find that Paul (Saul) quite likely DID accompany the 12 while they were with Jesus on quite a few occasions. Saul was a pharisee. Pharisees were present quite often during Jesus' ministry and probably some of them followed Jesus around, as did great crowds of others. The 12 were Jesus' inner circle, but there were many disciples that followed Jesus--at one time he sent out 70 disciples. A lot of Jesus teaching was directed at the pharisees--and usually not very complementary. Furthermore, Saul was given special permission to hunt down and kill Christians following Jesus' death and resurrection...he needed to know who the "leaders" would be--and probably did from personal interactions with them.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/27/2008 7:08:19 AM
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DaveW
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But that would have a near impossibility. He was a very young disiple of Gameliel, the "president" of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. That would have given him no time to be in Galillee where Jesus and the disciples spent most of their time. Even if he were around for some of HIS ministry, he would not have been one of those "associated with us," as the ISV renders Acts 1.21. The sense is not just an independant witness but an integral part of the ministry. (probably part of the 70) There is no way Saul could have ever been a "disciple" as his anger toward Jesus and his followers was WAAAAAYYYYYY beyond his master Gameliel, who saved the lives of the apostles in Acts 5. In fact he did not go to his mentor but to the high priest, the leader of those hated Saduccees to get the authorization to arrest and kill followers of Messiah. That would have been considered a personal betrayal.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/27/2008 7:15:21 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
To the OP, I say the answer is really an obvious no, but for those that say otherwise what would be the purpose and duties of an Apostle today now that the Church is already established? I'll bite.
The duty of a present day apostle would be as listed in Eph 4:
Eph 4:12 to perfect the saints, to do the work of ministry, and to build up the body of Christ
Eph 4:13 until all of us are united in the faith and in the full knowledge of God's Son, and until we attain mature adulthood and the full standard of development in Christ.
Eph 4:14 Then we will no longer be little children, tossed like waves and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people's trickery, or by clever strategies that would lead us astray.
As we are NOT all united in faith, or in fullness of knowledge, we still need ALL 5 of those ministries listed. Apostles are to lead in this:
1Co 12:28 God has appointed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then those who perform miracles, those who have gifts of healing, those who help others, administrators, and various kinds of tongues.
Without the translocal authority of apostles, there is nothing to keep individual congregations from going off on various tangents. The entire body must start to walk in unity. That cannot happen without someone EVERYONE recognizes as authoritative to lead the way.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/28/2008 12:50:07 PM
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GodsMusic
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Sorry DaveW, but there are only twelve Apostles. No more.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bible
RV 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/30/2008 3:25:14 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
I read it was only given to first century apostles who saw the risen Jesus and were appointed to be messengers (greek meaning) by Jesus himself.
- The Father sent forth one Apostle, Jesus, "the apostle and high priest of our confession."
- The Son sent forth 12 apostles on one occasion, 70 (or 72) on another, and had an inner circle of the Twelve, and the Three.
- The Holy Spirit sent out dozens of apostles, named in the New Testament, and has not, to my knowledge, handed in His resignation in the years since. Rom. 16:7 -- "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me." Also, Barnabas, Matthias, and Silas were called Apostles.
Three classes of apostles, none of which supplants the others.
If a man is indeed an apostle, he will not only plant churches, he will activate others to go and do likewise. For example, Kings Park International Church (www.kpic.org) has spun off an average of one daughter church per year for several decades. When the Soviet bloc opened, our people got there before the pornographers, and planted churches in Ukraine and Poland.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/31/2008 7:00:49 PM
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creationtalk
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quote:
Sorry DaveW, but there are only twelve Apostles. No more.
This is not consistent with the scriptures that said not to be taken in by false apostles. If there were only the 12, this would not have been a problem because those 12 were easy to identify. Since scriptures tell us that 500 saw Christ's ascension, there could have been as many as 500 apostles.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 11/1/2008 12:26:35 AM
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GodsMusic
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quote:
ORIGINAL: creationtalk
quote:
Sorry DaveW, but there are only twelve Apostles. No more.
This is not consistent with the scriptures that said not to be taken in by false apostles. If there were only the 12, this would not have been a problem because those 12 were easy to identify. Since scriptures tell us that 500 saw Christ's ascension, there could have been as many as 500 apostles.
Sure it is. There were false or self proclaimed Apostles back then just like there are today.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 11/4/2008 12:46:16 PM
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DaveW
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So WHO do you say the 12 are? Do you list Paul or Mathias?
Since Barnabas is called an apostle, where do you fit him in?
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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