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Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/22/2008 9:10:53 PM
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livingwaterbottle
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I recently took one of those spiritual gift inventories and found that it turns out I am highly gifted in apostleship. Just about every study tool I have says that apostleship is a spiritual gift but it is no longer given to Christians. I read it was only given to first century apostles who saw the risen Jesus and were appointed to be messengers (greek meaning) by Jesus himself. So my question is: if I am gifted in apostleship (which I find in some ways fits me), what does it mean and do you think God still gifts apostles today?
Thanks LWB
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 12:27:31 AM
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Zhi
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I guess that it depends on what the test claims "apostleship" means. Some "spiritual gift tests" use it as basically being synonymous with "evangelism" specifically in a "missionary" context, and I think most people would agree that evangelism/mission work are still valid gifts/callings.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 7:49:36 AM
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JimboFletch
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The original Apostles stated that qualifications include having been with Jesus during His earthly ministry and "one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection." So if you can find a living man over 2,000 years old, he might qualify to fill the office of Apostle. That's found in Acts, a book that many who believe the office is still active seem to base the bulk of their doctrines on - except that passage, which they make excuses for dismissing.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 8:04:42 AM
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earthless
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In addressing the question of apostles and prophets today, we must carefully define our terms.
Certainly the church today needs church planters, missionaries, or leaders who act as pastors over other pastors. Fortunately, when some people say that the church needs "apostles" today, that's all that they mean. And while the usage of the term "apostle" is not biblical, certainly the church does need such persons.
Likewise, when some people say that the church needs "prophets" today, they mean that the church needs Spirit-filled leaders who can inspire the church with a vision for its mission, or who can challenge the church to deeper commitment to Christ.
And again, while this many not be the most biblical use of the term "prophet," there can be no doubt that the church does need such persons.
On the other hand, if by "apostles" and "prophets" one means Christian leaders of the same kind as the twelve apostles or the apostle Paul, they are clearly mistaken.
There are no church leaders today whose authority cannot be questioned, or through whom new doctrinal revelations are given to the church, or whose teachings must be accepted by all Christians.
The New Testament teaches that the apostles of Christ were persons to whom Christ appeared after His resurrection and whom He commissioned to be His personal spokesmen (Acts 1:21-26; 5:32; 1 Corinthians. 9:1; 15:8).
Ephesians 2:20 and 3:5 teach that the apostles and prophets had foundational offices through which Christ established the church as the newly constituted people of God, a church in which both Jews and Gentiles make up the singular body of Christ.
Clearly many men today who claim to be apostles have taken upon themselves authority over other people which has not been given to them by God. Additionally, they are making prophetic utterances which they falsely claim to be divinely inspired.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 10:31:45 AM
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misty35
Posts: 614
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From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: livingwaterbottle
I recently took one of those spiritual gift inventories and found that it turns out I am highly gifted in apostleship. Just about every study tool I have says that apostleship is a spiritual gift but it is no longer given to Christians. I read it was only given to first century apostles who saw the risen Jesus and were appointed to be messengers (greek meaning) by Jesus himself. So my question is: if I am gifted in apostleship (which I find in some ways fits me), what does it mean and do you think God still gifts apostles today?
Thanks LWB
You will indeed get so many responses on this, which will all be different, and may very well hold truth to them, but just do this, dont ever put God in a box, He can do whatever He wants too, yes the Bible is the truth, but if God wants to use you as a messenger, He will do just that, when He opens doors, no man can shut them!! So thats why I say, focus on Him, He will show you. 
Your question is, are you gifted in apostleship? No one really can answer that for you, only He can, so trust Him and allow Him to lead you.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 10:39:58 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
....dont ever put God in a box, He can do whatever He wants too...
That's sounds good and is almost correct, but, according to the Bible, He cannot violate His own charcter or holiness and cannot contradict Himself. You can gauge a lot of heresy because it violates those constants.
Regarding the OP, the original Apostles defined qualification to the office in Acts 1 as:
"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us-- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 11:05:51 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
In addressing the question of apostles and prophets today, we must carefully define our terms.
Certainly the church today needs church planters, missionaries, or leaders who act as pastors over other pastors. Fortunately, when some people say that the church needs "apostles" today, that's all that they mean. And while the usage of the term "apostle" is not biblical, certainly the church does need such persons.
Likewise, when some people say that the church needs "prophets" today, they mean that the church needs Spirit-filled leaders who can inspire the church with a vision for its mission, or who can challenge the church to deeper commitment to Christ.
And again, while this many not be the most biblical use of the term "prophet," there can be no doubt that the church does need such persons.
On the other hand, if by "apostles" and "prophets" one means Christian leaders of the same kind as the twelve apostles or the apostle Paul, they are clearly mistaken.
There are no church leaders today whose authority cannot be questioned, or through whom new doctrinal revelations are given to the church, or whose teachings must be accepted by all Christians.
The New Testament teaches that the apostles of Christ were persons to whom Christ appeared after His resurrection and whom He commissioned to be His personal spokesmen (Acts 1:21-26; 5:32; 1 Corinthians. 9:1; 15:8).
Ephesians 2:20 and 3:5 teach that the apostles and prophets had foundational offices through which Christ established the church as the newly constituted people of God, a church in which both Jews and Gentiles make up the singular body of Christ.
Clearly many men today who claim to be apostles have taken upon themselves authority over other people which has not been given to them by God. Additionally, they are making prophetic utterances which they falsely claim to be divinely inspired.
While I still hold that "prophecy" today is a still a little broader than you have defined . ..
I otherwise completely and entirely agree.
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love.ben
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 11:15:15 AM
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misty35
Posts: 614
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From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
....dont ever put God in a box, He can do whatever He wants too...
That's sounds good and is almost correct, but, according to the Bible, He cannot violate His own charcter or holiness and cannot contradict Himself. You can gauge a lot of heresy because it violates those constants.
Regarding the OP, the original Apostles defined qualification to the office in Acts 1 as:
"Therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us-- beginning with the baptism of John until the day that He was taken up from us--one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."
The area of my post that you highlighted is very true, whether you agree or not, He can do whatever He wants.......and thats the problem with so many people today, they put LIMITS on God, something I dont do, I walk in expectation and knowing that He directs my every step, those that put limits on Him, are only limiting themselves.....
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 11:37:20 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
The area of my post that you highlighted is very true, whether you agree or not, He can do whatever He wants.......and thats the problem with so many people today, they put LIMITS on God, something I dont do, I walk in expectation and knowing that He directs my every step, those that put limits on Him, are only limiting themselves.....
How powerful am I that I can limit God and thus limit myself?
But the point is that God Himself put limits on Himself. For instance, God said that He will never destroy the earth with a flood. Could He? From the stance that He has that power, yes. But, from the stance that He cannot defy Himself or His character and nature, the answer is no. He limited Himself in this fashion.
The Word of God shows us how God works and interacts with His creation, and He won't change that.
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love.ben
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 11:45:20 AM
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misty35
Posts: 614
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From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
The area of my post that you highlighted is very true, whether you agree or not, He can do whatever He wants.......and thats the problem with so many people today, they put LIMITS on God, something I dont do, I walk in expectation and knowing that He directs my every step, those that put limits on Him, are only limiting themselves.....
How powerful am I that I can limit God and thus limit myself?
But the point is that God Himself put limits on Himself. For instance, God said that He will never destroy the earth with a flood. Could He? From the stance that He has that power, yes. But, from the stance that He cannot defy Himself or His character and nature, the answer is no. He limited Himself in this fashion.
The Word of God shows us how God works and interacts with His creation, and He won't change that.
Gottcha  ......I think that went way over your head there :)
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 12:31:32 PM
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JimboFletch
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I've never run into believers that come up with their notions of what God is or does, then dismiss scripture that God had His servants write for us over many centuries if it disagrees with their ideas.
It's like running into a medical student that laughs at the notion that physicians should study the accumulated knowledge of medicine and the human body, but advocates treating patients however you feel is right on any given day based nothing solid.
No wonder TBN and the likes of Osteen and Copeland and Hinn and Murdock get filthy rich from selling doctrines just made up to delight the masses.
Lord, give us more people like the Bereans!
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 1:44:58 PM
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Zhi
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Hmm. I think the real issue is with the term "apostleship". I don't think anyone would be upset about the idea of someone having the gift of "missions" and/or "leadership".
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 2:20:22 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 470
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
The original Apostles stated that qualifications include having been with Jesus during His earthly ministry and "one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection." So if you can find a living man over 2,000 years old, he might qualify to fill the office of Apostle. That's found in Acts, a book that many who believe the office is still active seem to base the bulk of their doctrines on - except that passage, which they make excuses for dismissing.
You are right on the money JF.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 3:22:59 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
He can do whatever He wants.
No. No, God cannot.
There are things God cannot do and will not do. And one of them is to contradict Himself, His Word.
Like it has been duly noted - your train of thought not only contradicts Scripture and God Himself, it is the reason we have so much heresy, false teachers, false prophets, counterfeit revivals, etc.. taking root in our church circles.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 3:30:34 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
He can do whatever He wants.
No. No, God cannot.
There are things God cannot do and will not do. And one of them is to contradict Himself, His Word.
Like it has been duly noted - your train of thought not only contradicts Scripture and God Himself, it is the reason we have so much heresy, false teachers, false prophets, counterfeit revivals, etc.. taking root in our church circles.
And I never said that He would contradict Himself, go and read a few post back, and you'll see that I NEVER said that He would contadict Himself......that came from you :)
< Message edited by misty35 -- 10/23/2008 9:02:13 PM >
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 3:50:58 PM
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Child4Jesus
Posts: 470
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misty35,
I think the problem people are having is that you posts saying that God can do whatever He wants suggests to some including myself that you think that He would say one think in scripture and then somehow change how He does things today. Scripture is clear who qualifies as an apostle and no one today qualifies.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 4:01:14 PM
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PCRB
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i think one can have an 'apostolic' anointing in ministry without being labeled by rights an apostle.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 5:39:21 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 1144
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PCRB
i think one can have an 'apostolic' anointing in ministry without being labeled by rights an apostle.
And I think that if there are apostles today, they will never be called apostles, by themselves or anyone. They would be the unsung servants of the church. It is certainly not the person who calls himself 'Apostle So-and-So' for self-importance or merchandising purposes.
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 6:48:19 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PCRB
i think one can have an 'apostolic' anointing in ministry without being labeled by rights an apostle.
Well, that would be a false understanding of New Testament anointing, IMO.
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: Can There Be Modern Day Apostles? - 10/23/2008 11:37:25 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
He can do whatever He wants.
No. No, God cannot.
There are things God cannot do and will not do. And one of them is to contradict Himself, His Word.
Like it has been duly noted - your train of thought not only contradicts Scripture and God Himself, it is the reason we have so much heresy, false teachers, false prophets, counterfeit revivals, etc.. taking root in our church circles.
And I never said that He would contradict Himself, go and read a few post back, and you'll see that I NEVER said that He would contadict Himself......that came from you :)
You came off as saying He can do anything He wants, which is a false statement. So if that is not what you meant, then glad that has been clarified.
Back to the theme - there is no one alive today whose writings are on par with Scripture.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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