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RE: Jesus heal - 10/29/2008 9:35:35 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
ahhhh it is unloving to not want to provide medical insurance, welfare and disability to everyone, BUT it is unthinkable to actually make it affordable for everyone.
if you look at the early church, that was probably the closest picture of a pure communal (communism?)ifestyle. Whenever there was a need, somebody met it. That's a wonderful concept for inside the church, but I don't think I want you to provide it for me.
Jesus did heal people who had no faith as Jimbofletch said, and that is what intercession is all about.
Let pull for you the Acts passage so we can see if the Government stepped in or it the aid was given to "everyone" lost or saved.
Sue this may be yet another passage to confirm what you said.
Acts 4
32 All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. 33 With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and much grace was upon them all. 34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales 35 and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. 36 Joseph, a Levite from Cyprus, whom the apostles called Barnabas (which means Son of Encouragement), 37 sold a field he owned and brought the money and put it at the apostles' feet.
Notice this was 100% the Chruch and it had not government laws regulating it nor was anyone "forced" to sell their property.
This is what I said about this passage in another thread. For my church this is normal. For us to sell our timber, land or whatever we have of value inorder to meet the needs of another Chruch member and even the missionaires we sponsor is not a big deal. It's normal for us. It's unnatural for us to hold things of value while a church family member suffers.
We also teach that we don't own anything. It all belongs to God. We are simply stewards of what he has blessed us with. Surplus is for the prupose of doing God's work. Notice too that everything they owned was not turned over or sold. They sold as the need arose. That passage is NOT about communism or living in a commune.
They also do what I have been exposed to my entire life. Sharing what we have. When my neighbor needed to use our tractor, truck or anything else he knows he is welcome to it. As do I know that if I need to borrow something he has I am welcome to borrow it without even having to ask first. (one rule however that must be followed....if you borrow something you must return it in the same or better condition - abuse is not something people who have "one heart and mind" are acustome to)
Notice why there was no needy person "among them"....as in the body of believers.
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/29/2008 9:51:20 AM >
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RE: Jesus heal - 10/29/2008 10:05:35 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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RC,
When my father had cancer he called on the elders to come pray and annoint him. For some reason many "even Christians" found that to be strange and "out of date". Most had never considered the passage much less considered acting on it. I find that sad.
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RE: Jesus heal - 10/29/2008 12:06:46 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
to take this an even step further, hopefully this will not be to far off the OP intent if it is I'm sorry, how about the fact that they Bible says we are to help those in the faith first, before helping those outside the faith.
Widows had to be faithful for them to get help from the Church 1 Tim 5:9,10
and I can't fine the scripture passage at the moment but I know there is one that says we need to help those inside the faith first. When i find that I will post.
Gal 6:10 "Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers."
I'm not sure this is necessarily a matter of priority, but of intiative. We should make an extra effort to help those of the household of faith. Regarding communal living, this was popular among some in the sixties, but only a few were successful. In the Acts of the Apostles, this was volutary giving, not an imposed social structure. We see this in the case of Annias and Saphira. Peter says, (Acts 5:4) "Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal?"
This principle of providing for one another was not as new concept. It is found in Ha Torah. In fact we are even commanded to provide for the stranger and the traveler. This concept had been translated by some rabbis to mean a convert. What made the followers of the Messiah stand out was the fact that they took a broad interpretation of charitable giving. So, lest we fall prey to the errors of some rabbis, we need to be careful about discriminating too much in whom we are charitable to. As the author of Hebrews tells us, Heb 13:2 "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Jesus heal - 11/3/2008 12:58:58 AM
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sledmt
Posts: 321
Joined: 8/25/2008
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In one of the gospel, Christ heals a man that does not know who healed until later. I as recall, the word does not identify any one as standing in the gap for this man.
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