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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 3:54:05 PM
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doinkdom
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From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
That is the one of the reasons for caging; so that the animals are not crammed together and aid in the spread of infection and disease.
I don't know what cages you have other there, but here in the UK battery cages are not even big enough for the chicken to turn around, or stand up straight. And the next chicken's cage is right next to it. Not physically touching, but definitely close enough for the spread of infection/disease.
Those are the ones I've seen over here and those free-range pig picturs are too cute. We have friends up in Indiana with a pig farm and it always smells like alfafa...really clean cause they give the pigs some room to move about.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 4:23:33 PM
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Jhud
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While I am no fan of large corporate farms, and while I think it's pleasant to think of farm animals running about the farm a la Charlotte's Web, I think the reality for those who make their living producing food which feeds hundreds of millions of people is that there has to be some aspect whereby one can regularize inputs and outputs, and have systems whereby you can determine and control costs of running a business.
That means feed controls, having the ability to estimate how many animals one can produce, and how much each animal will sell for, how many you can sell, how you can maximize those rates of returns and minimize costs. Treating animals humanely can and should be one of those costs, but there has to be balance, and a realistic determination about whether one can make a living also.
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I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 5:15:33 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
I don't know what cages you have other there, but here in the UK battery cages are not even big enough for the chicken to turn around, or stand up straight. And the next chicken's cage is right next to it. Not physically touching, but definitely close enough for the spread of infection/disease.
i sorta doubt that, but at least they are not walking around in and eating their own poop.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 5:18:46 PM
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eaglelady11
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I buy free range chicken and the salmon I eat is wild salmon since fish raised in captivity swim in their own feces. you also have to look at the health issue of eating foods raised on poorer conditions and stuffed with drugs.
to answer a question on the board, I do not think it abuse to raise animals that we need to eat for our survival even though vegetarianism would provide for our nutritional needs. that's like saying a lion is abusing a sheep when he goes after his food.
we can be more humane in how we treat animals and I definitely believe we will be called into account when we answer to Jesus.
we were created worship.
to answer the original question of free range being better, my answer is yes.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 6:15:53 PM
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manda59
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
i sorta doubt that, but at least they are not walking around in and eating their own poop.
Have you ever actually seen battery cages, rcjames?
And, as I said, I've been around chickens a lot these last 23 years, and in all that time have never seen a hen eat its own faeces. Apart from any inbuilt revulsion which I believe it has to its own faeces, why would it need to, with grain, grass, leftovers perhaps and anything else it has around it that is edible?
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 7:02:06 PM
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Zhi
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I've actually seen chickens eat their own um, poo, quite a few times while raising them. And this is when they're entirely out of the coop just flapping around doing their usual "I'm a very stupid bird" act. They could have gone after the grasshoppers, or they could have gone into the coop and grabbed a snack out of the feeder, or they could have gone a little further to the wheat field or the hay piles, but apparently they'd rather not. *shrug*
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 7:08:13 PM
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manda59
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Well I've certainly see them pecking around in other decaying matter, including scratching up cow pats looking for bugs, and it honestly doesn't bother me. I can't imagine it would have any effect on their health in any case. Chickens have pretty strong effective constitutions, and things go through them very quickly indeed.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/16/2008 8:26:04 PM
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Zhi
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The only time I've ever seen a chicken NOT try to eat something, quite frankly, is when my sister accidentally put a cup of baking soda into a batch of cookies that called for a teaspoon of baking soda, and then tried to hide the evidence by feeding it to the chickens. They apparently wouldn't touch the stuff. hee.
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The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 12:05:35 AM
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Mrs.X
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I went to that link you posted, Manda. How sweet. I looked at the gallery of the "ex-bat girls". LOL
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 1:44:14 AM
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agapetos
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From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
I went to that link you posted, Manda. How sweet. I looked at the gallery of the "ex-bat girls". LOL
LOL! As I read the 'For agapetos', I wondered how many others would go to the link. I'm glad that at least one person did!
I went too. It was sweet. Does make you think about what you're buying without thinking doesn't it?
Some of my neighbours and I would love to share the care for some chickens ~ and theirs loads of space for them. The trustees wouldn't go for it though.
I liked the free range pigs link too ~ especially given it's in Wiltshire, the county I live in! Kinda reminded me of 'Jimmy's Farm'.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 10:42:50 AM
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ultimathule
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quote:
I'm honestly not sure what good that would do.
However, all around where I live, there is an over-population of deer. Obviously this leads to lots of other problems. Maybe we could just sell more deer tags to hunters.
I agree. Or have the farms and let hunters come and shoot them because it seems theres massive population of deer lately. Also, i think it would be easier, cheaper and healthier to raise and consume them. just my opinion, plus i am tired of dodging them in my car.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 3:24:56 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eaglelady11
I buy free range chicken and the salmon I eat is wild salmon since fish raised in captivity swim in their own feces. you also have to look at the health issue of eating foods raised on poorer conditions and stuffed with drugs.
And you are assuming that there is no feces in the water of wild salmon????
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 6:00:24 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: eaglelady11
I buy free range chicken and the salmon I eat is wild salmon since fish raised in captivity swim in their own feces. you also have to look at the health issue of eating foods raised on poorer conditions and stuffed with drugs.
And you are assuming that there is no feces in the water of wild salmon????
Far, far more diluted, hardly even comparable.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 9:49:35 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
Pigs cannot be allowed to free-range
Free Range Pigs in Wiltshire, England 
So they let these pigs roam all over the countryside? Or are they confined to the property of the owners? How are they handled, especially the sows with pigs? Here in the South there are feral pigs in may rural areas, like the Razorbacks of the Ozarks, descended from "free-range" pigs gone wild and they are very dangerous. The "Hogzilla" of a couple of years back is another example of feral pigs. Most pigs will root under fences and even stock fencing willnot keep them in unless the bottom is reinforced with barbed-wire and logs that the fence has been nailed to. We also put large rocks around the fence on the outside to further reinforce the fence. The pigs constantly rooted around the base of the fence. One sow actually got out, and we had a heck of a time getting her back in. She bit at my grandfather and laid a gash in his leg,then turned on me. I climbed up a tree faster than you could imagine. It took the dogs to get her in and she tried to get them too. It must be said that this sow was nasty-tempered to start with.
I had a pet pig and used to let her out to graze in the pasture, but as a pet she was trained to respond to commands.
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/17/2008 10:48:42 PM
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abraxas
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I became a vegetarian for humanitarian reasons, but since then I've learned more about the health and environmental issues surrounding our meat industries and it really drives it home. How much farmland is used just to feed livestock, how much water is needed to produce beef and pork, how incredibly polluting it all is, etc. etc.
This is a ted.com speech that lays it out very well, I highly recommend having a look. (also highly recommend ted.com) If you aren't sold on the global warming issue, don't worry that isn't his main thrust, just some opening comments.
what's wrong with what we eat?
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RE: Is "Free Range" better or worse for us? - 10/18/2008 2:57:20 AM
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miasma
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Free range is, of course, across a variety of angles, better for us. How is that even a question?
Win-win situation.
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