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chrisovery -> focus (10/11/2008 1:32:47 PM)
i did not write this. but it is really good. a friend sent it to me. This message comes from 1 Cor. 2:1&2. This is a strong warning and I am not trying to judge anybody. It is given with sincerity and simplicity and if anyone disagrees please read these verses and see that they support every word of this message. The gospel isn’t eloquent or of superior wisdom. It is simple. One doesn’t become forceful and persuasive in speech when preaching the cross. The gospel isn’t rhetoric, which is defined as the art of speaking. Rhetoric is the way of the world; rhetoric belongs to the supercilious, the high-brows, if you will. The prominent speakers who get $50,000.00 per speech are not telling of Jesus, they are puffed-up pleasers of men. If Paul didn’t come to Corinth with eloquence and super-wisdom, then no one should. These verses support the idea of a simple gospel, which is easily understood and easily transmitted. Sure, there are deep things of the faith, but they come from simplicity. If your goal is to impress people, then you will be called a fool. If your goal is to communicate a simple gospel, which is only Christ crucified, then God will let you understand more and more. Only keep it simple. The testimony of God is the preaching of the cross, whether in word or song. The testimony of God is not an excellence of speech or a super-wisdom that impresses. 1 Cor. 2:2 is a very important portion of ure. It is the reason that I continually harp on the cross. Paul wanted to convert the Corinthians…and how did he do it? What was his mode of operation? What did he resolve to do? What did Paul resolve to know? Read it in 1 Cor. 2:2. Read it and learn. Do this yourself, preacher, singer, saint. Paul determined, Paul decided, Paul desired to know nothing except the cross, and the Person on the cross. In so doing, Paul condemned all other teachings. Paul condemned theology. What has theology produced? It has produced nothing but confusion, divisions, and denominations. What has theology produced in you? Only distractions from Jesus, the One who never fails. Jesus and Him crucified will never fail. Theology, which is the “eloquent and wise” study of God, will mire you down in a heap of endless, old, yellow-paged books about the opinions of man. If the church would simplify and tell of the cross, the converts would abound and the church signs would come down. We would have Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics no longer. We would only have Christians. No more sects or religious groups would confuse the issue. But mark my words, this will never happen. When Jesus comes, will He find the faith on the earth? So I will try to reach you, my reader, instead of entire religious groups. And if you continue to attend your religion, attend in simplicity and love and maybe you will bring those around you into the church-invisible. I pray for the pastors, that they will get, not religion, but the gospel. Only then will revival happen on the largest scale. Joe La Bianca

terryjohn -> RE: focus (10/11/2008 2:25:36 PM)
Interesting but does the gospel suggest we simply overlook false teaching? If you believe in Chirst, can you do as you please? Are not false teachings and practises confronted by Christ Himself? Matt 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-- 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' The gospel is about confonting evil head on. The divisions in the chursch are then unavoidable, if only to show that some are saved. The gospel can not coexist with false teaching and practices. The gospel is like putting a light in a open can of gas. There is bound to be a reaction. Those who believe the gospel will simply create peace and comfort for them on earth simply do not know the power of the gospel. If they crucified our teacher (Christ) how much more will they do to those of us who are His students? Should we not also go through the temples turning over the idols that men have placed in the house of the Lord? The only way we can live at peace on earth is to overlook sin and tolerate evil in our midst. What or whose gospel do you preach? Better to preach Christ for then; Php 1:18 - ... what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice,

URForgiven -> RE: focus (10/11/2008 4:49:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chrisovery If your goal is to communicate a simple gospel, which is only Christ crucified, then God will let you understand more and more. Only keep it simple. God tells us through the Apostle Paul what the Gospel is... 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures" The full Gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We are warned about any that would add to or take away from the simplicity of the Gospel... Galatians 1:8-9 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!" Strong words there. I would think we should heed them. Peace

chrisovery -> RE: focus (10/12/2008 10:30:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: terryjohn Interesting but does the gospel suggest we simply overlook false teaching? If you believe in Chirst, can you do as you please? Are not false teachings and practises confronted by Christ Himself? Matt 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn "'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law-- 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' The gospel is about confonting evil head on. The divisions in the chursch are then unavoidable, if only to show that some are saved. The gospel can not coexist with false teaching and practices. The gospel is like putting a light in a open can of gas. There is bound to be a reaction. Those who believe the gospel will simply create peace and comfort for them on earth simply do not know the power of the gospel. If they crucified our teacher (Christ) how much more will they do to those of us who are His students? Should we not also go through the temples turning over the idols that men have placed in the house of the Lord? The only way we can live at peace on earth is to overlook sin and tolerate evil in our midst. What or whose gospel do you preach? Better to preach Christ for then; Php 1:18 - ... what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, this is the problem. christ is not preached. money and wealth and new cars and houses are preached. sowing seeds of faith in the churches today is to give them your money. they tell of great things their church is doing, nothing of what christ is doing. everyone hold your hands out to pray for billy bob today, god will hear us better. these are not the gospel. nor are they preaching christ.

delete123 -> RE: focus (10/12/2008 3:39:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chrisovery this is the problem. christ is not preached. money and wealth and new cars and houses are preached. sowing seeds of faith in the churches today is to give them your money. they tell of great things their church is doing, nothing of what christ is doing. everyone hold your hands out to pray for billy bob today, god will hear us better. these are not the gospel. nor are they preaching christ. Chris~ this is only my humble opinion and hope you receive it as such and that it is not an offense to you! I mainly see these blab and grab, name and claim on television. Yes those churches are real and like to believe God to be their personal banker. However to me the bible states this would happen and it is up to each individual to have a personal relationship and 'chose' a church that will feed them the truth. Paul stated that we should not be ingnorant to the truth of the gospel, and yet when some hear it as mentioned in Galatians that they stray to a different doctrine, however: The Lord says, that many will profess His name and do good works in His name and when judgement comes, He will say: Depart from me! Just like He stated that the poor,war, and pestilence will always be with us, But so will the Wolves. Isn't there always wolves among a flock of sheep? They to hunger [&:] The bible also says that God is in all Churches and they too will be judged according to scripture, so do not concern yourself with what they are or are not doing. Concern yourself with what you are doing and the truth that has been given you Hope the Lord blesses you today

chrisovery -> RE: focus (10/12/2008 4:12:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: delete123 quote: ORIGINAL: chrisovery this is the problem. christ is not preached. money and wealth and new cars and houses are preached. sowing seeds of faith in the churches today is to give them your money. they tell of great things their church is doing, nothing of what christ is doing. everyone hold your hands out to pray for billy bob today, god will hear us better. these are not the gospel. nor are they preaching christ. Chris~ this is only my humble opinion and hope you receive it as such and that it is not an offense to you! I mainly see these blab and grab, name and claim on television. Yes those churches are real and like to believe God to be their personal banker. However to me the bible states this would happen and it is up to each individual to have a personal relationship and 'chose' a church that will feed them the truth. Paul stated that we should not be ingnorant to the truth of the gospel, and yet when some hear it as mentioned in Galatians that they stray to a different doctrine, however: The Lord says, that many will profess His name and do good works in His name and when judgement comes, He will say: Depart from me! Just like He stated that the poor,war, and pestilence will always be with us, But so will the Wolves. Isn't there always wolves among a flock of sheep? They to hunger [&:] The bible also says that God is in all Churches and they too will be judged according to scripture, so do not concern yourself with what they are or are not doing. Concern yourself with what you are doing and the truth that has been given you Hope the Lord blesses you today delete123, the bible does say this. so dont you think that we should let people know what the truth is in hopes that they may turn from the fables and lies they are being taught. this is only a concern delete123. it seems to me that you are stating that because the bible says it is going to happen that we are to sit back and hide the truth. i do not believe that this is how you feel. it just seems to be what you are stating.

His_4_Ever -> RE: focus (10/12/2008 5:00:22 PM)
If I'm reading your post right are you saying we shouldn't make the Bible so complicated the common man can't understand it? The word of God shouldn't be spread in a "shoving it down your throat manner", but with love and understanding. I myself don't care for Theology. It seems to me most theologians at prestigous Univerisities are more set on disproving the Bible rather than confirming it.

AboundinginHisGrace -> RE: focus (10/12/2008 5:54:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: campbe33 If I'm reading your post right are you saying we shouldn't make the Bible so complicated the common man can't understand it? The word of God shouldn't be spread in a "shoving it down your throat manner", but with love and understanding. I myself don't care for Theology. It seems to me most theologians at prestigous Univerisities are more set on disproving the Bible rather than confirming it. I do enjoy reading me bible, but for a long time I would read my bible to learn more about it, Emphasis on "about" it. God convicted me of it. Now, I try my best to read to bible to apply it. If all I know is 5 chapters and I know how to apply those to my life I am better off than someone who knows the whole bible and doesn't apply it. It is really easy for us to read God's Word like a history book. We can fall into reading it like a book, but we should really pray about what God is telling us. So many people study their bible to try to find all these deep meanings and try to predict prophecies, find these secret codes, etc etc. I think a lot of people get so caught up in this, they forget the "basic" things (which isn't basic) such as Christ dieing for us, and that we should share this Good news with the world. We can know the bible backwards and forwards, but if we are not using it what good is it? Who cares if you can list the genealogy from Adam to Christ, if you are not sharing Christ with the world what good is that doing? I am not saying studying all those things are bad, but a lot of people get so caught up in theology that they forget the purpose of God's word and that is to introduce us to Him, to teach us to be more like Him, and to teach us how to better know Him.

delete123 -> RE: focus (10/12/2008 6:25:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chrisovery delete123, the bible does say this. so dont you think that we should let people know what the truth is in hopes that they may turn from the fables and lies they are being taught. this is only a concern delete123. it seems to me that you are stating that because the bible says it is going to happen that we are to sit back and hide the truth. i do not believe that this is how you feel. it just seems to be what you are stating. My apology if my post is not clear to you. I am in no means stating we should hide the truth. What I am trying to state is the person on the receiving end. That is why these ministries thrive, because some folks just don't want to know the truth. They want to 'feel good.' They don't want to know that fruits of the Spirit is longsuffering, etc.... So it is better for us as believers to sow the seeds of truth of the Gospel sometimes one plant at a time. As the Holy Spirit waters and someone else reaps the harvest. Sometimes our efforts is better if we care for one plant at a time than seeking to crop a whole field. Even scripture states that as believers we have a part in knowing the truth: Jeremiah29:11-13 If you seek me, you will find Me! sounds personal to me [;)] Unfortunately those who believe in the blab and grab, or name and claim will find themselves disappointed when their hopes was in man word. Those maybe are the one's you maybe seeking to reach.

chrisovery -> RE: focus (10/14/2008 11:17:52 AM)
thank you delete. sorry i put you on the spot like that. i had to ask though before just making a bad judgment. the gospel is simple to those that accept it. if we take a person to church and tell them listen to the sophistication of the gospel they do not hear what christ did or how great he is. they hear stuff that is confusing to them and they do not understand.

SavedByGraceMD -> RE: focus (10/14/2008 3:33:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: chrisovery i did not write this. but it is really good. a friend sent it to me. This message comes from 1 Cor. 2:1&2. This is a strong warning and I am not trying to judge anybody. It is given with sincerity and simplicity and if anyone disagrees please read these verses and see that they support every word of this message. The gospel isn’t eloquent or of superior wisdom. It is simple. One doesn’t become forceful and persuasive in speech when preaching the cross. The gospel isn’t rhetoric, which is defined as the art of speaking. Rhetoric is the way of the world; rhetoric belongs to the supercilious, the high-brows, if you will. The prominent speakers who get $50,000.00 per speech are not telling of Jesus, they are puffed-up pleasers of men. If Paul didn’t come to Corinth with eloquence and super-wisdom, then no one should. These verses support the idea of a simple gospel, which is easily understood and easily transmitted. Sure, there are deep things of the faith, but they come from simplicity. If your goal is to impress people, then you will be called a fool. If your goal is to communicate a simple gospel, which is only Christ crucified, then God will let you understand more and more. Only keep it simple. The testimony of God is the preaching of the cross, whether in word or song. The testimony of God is not an excellence of speech or a super-wisdom that impresses. 1 Cor. 2:2 is a very important portion of ure. It is the reason that I continually harp on the cross. Paul wanted to convert the Corinthians…and how did he do it? What was his mode of operation? What did he resolve to do? What did Paul resolve to know? Read it in 1 Cor. 2:2. Read it and learn. Do this yourself, preacher, singer, saint. Paul determined, Paul decided, Paul desired to know nothing except the cross, and the Person on the cross. In so doing, Paul condemned all other teachings. Paul condemned theology. What has theology produced? It has produced nothing but confusion, divisions, and denominations. What has theology produced in you? Only distractions from Jesus, the One who never fails. Jesus and Him crucified will never fail. Theology, which is the “eloquent and wise” study of God, will mire you down in a heap of endless, old, yellow-paged books about the opinions of man. If the church would simplify and tell of the cross, the converts would abound and the church signs would come down. We would have Baptists, Methodists, and Catholics no longer. We would only have Christians. No more sects or religious groups would confuse the issue. But mark my words, this will never happen. When Jesus comes, will He find the faith on the earth? So I will try to reach you, my reader, instead of entire religious groups. And if you continue to attend your religion, attend in simplicity and love and maybe you will bring those around you into the church-invisible. I pray for the pastors, that they will get, not religion, but the gospel. Only then will revival happen on the largest scale. Joe La Bianca To be honest, I kind of agree with this statement. We tend too make things to difficult, especially when we consider theology, and the 31 flavors of denominations. Christ and Him crucified, is all I want to know. But that is not all we need to preach. We need to preach the gospel. All men sin, sin leads to death, all men fall short of the glory of God, but in His great love for us, He provided salvation through His Son Jesus Christ, whose death on the cross and blood spent offer us that salvation. Faith in the only begotten Son of God and what He did on the cross in our place is the only way to heaven and the Father. Pretty simple to me. Why do we need to logjam it all up with theology? Today is the day of salvation, come to the cross and confess, repent and believe in Jesus, the one and only son of God. It shouldn't be difficult for people to understand, and I don't think it is. It is only mans opinions and differing interpretations that make it difficult.

delete123 -> RE: focus (10/14/2008 6:39:13 PM)
quote: if we take a person to church and tell them listen .. they do not hear .they hear stuff One of Jesus profound statements that He said frequently: Let those that have ears to hear let them hear! * sometimes people only hear what they want, like the pharisees. They too did not want to 'hear' the truth. Blessings

bravjim -> RE: focus (10/14/2008 10:08:06 PM)
Read the passage even further. You have not found Paul's point. He was arguing against philosophy and man's understanding, wisdom of words. All that we need is the cross, for in the cross is the mystery hidden from the world, who cannot understand the true meaning of the cross without God's giving them the ability to understand it. It is foolishness to the natural man, but wisdom to the spiritual man. The passage you are looking at goes all the way to verse 16. Study the whole passage, and you will see what his whole point was. The corinthians were greeks living in a time when men put their faith and trust in philosophy, rather than God. There may have been some christians from Corinth who were getting off track or still paying attention to the philosophies of the day. He was making an argument against accepting man's wisdom, and instead focusing on the wisdom of God as revealed to him in the mystery of the depth of Christ's love as demonstrated on the cross.

nettiel -> RE: focus (10/15/2008 8:32:35 AM)
[:D]the only thing i know is god diedfor me on that cross took my sins and sorrows with him. i love jesus and he loves me.

chrisovery -> RE: focus (10/15/2008 11:45:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: nettiel [:D]the only thing i know is god died for me on that cross took my sins and sorrows with him. i love jesus and he loves me. and that settles it completely. well i think we really need to look at what is truly being taught and what is real about it. authority in the churches is not even of christ. christianity is not in trouble but the teachings are causing problems for the souls of all man kind. authority is taught today that they are not to be questioned of confronted. because they are always right period. ladies and gentlemen we need to quit relying on men for everything especially the truth of our lord. by sitting in all these schools and getting little pieces of paper stating that we know something. galation 1 talks about this.

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