Did you not learn your lesson? (Full Version)

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Zhi -> Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 3:10:13 PM)

So, you started in your state. You enacted policies and elected politicians in keeping with your ideals and so forth. Fair enough. These policies and politicians resulted in skyrocketing costs of business and costs of living. You couldn't find a job or a place to live.

So you got a job here and moved to my state, where businesses are doing well and the cost of living isn't bad. Can't really blame you I suppose.

But now you're enacting policies and electing politicians using the same criteria that got your state into such a mess that you decided to leave in the first place. People like me, who have lived here all our lives, are watching these new policies and saying "Have you no idea what this will do?"

Did you not learn your lesson?

I guess give it a few decades and the mass exodus will be out of Colorado. Hopefully enough of the states they're coming from like California will have figured it out and fixed it by then so there's a place to go.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 3:44:51 PM)

I would be all for sending liberals off to their own island...they want socialism, let them have it.



rlj -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 3:49:13 PM)

quote:

I would be all for sending liberals off to their own island...they want socialism, let them have it.


Yeah but that wouldn't work. You must work and pay your fair share. Without that, there is no socialism.



raivyne -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 4:38:26 PM)

Which is exactly why socialism fails in the real world [;)] In a perfect world filled with people who always did the right thing it would be grand :)



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 4:38:29 PM)

It's happening here too. In the west we get Californians, and in the east we get Minnesotans. One of my co-workers says he moved here from the Twin Cities for lower taxes and better schools, then proceeds to vote for the same thing he just left. It makes no sense at all.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 5:47:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

I would be all for sending liberals off to their own island...they want socialism, let them have it.

[sm=thumbsup.gif]



aslouie -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 9:28:13 PM)

This almost reminds me of an old op-ed I read back in high school, regarding how folks who wanted to move to a better place, unintentionally, if not unsuspectingly brought along the very things that compelled them to move elsewhere, i.e. when allergic people went to Arizona--only to bring along the very floral objects that gave them something worse than the sniffles!

Well that, and when I recalled how a outspoken global-warming skeptic was voted out of office (back in '06) in what's supposed to be the more affordable, suburban outskirts of the Bay Area, i.e. outside of San Francisco--never mind the fact that much of the talked-about liberal suburban sprawl might invite the very high cost of living they flee from (hint: higher taxes to support whatever green initiatives that might not be all that practical, let alone successful!)!



cog41 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/9/2008 10:09:53 PM)

they fail to see that their philosophy is flawed. It's not the govt. per se but the system they've created and left or want to leave. It's their philosophy, belief system. They just can't se they create the problem with their own policies. Blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.



rofaith -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 1:24:09 AM)

I came to California from Colorado in 1998.... From El Paso County in Colorado to boot which is a Republican stronghold, one of very few left in Colorado due to the influence of liberal ideology in Denver and Boulder.

Anyway, I did notice that wherever the city and county governments were run by those of the liberal persuasion the standard of living tanked and cost of living went non-linear upwards. With conservative government the opposite. I'll stay because I'm comfortable with the weather and the state needs more of those with the conservative approach to government. But this is truly the state of the insane.... doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result..... as you might have noticed, the state of California is almost bankrupt and will need $ 7B to remain alive..... it's crazy here.....

In His Grip gratefully, rofaith



radiorobert -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 9:46:52 AM)

The phenomenon of this is something that occurs in the human psyche when it comes to what someone WISHES the world would be like, as opposed to what the world ACTUALLY is like, and how it really desires to behave. Couple that with a lack of understanding in relation to how things actually work, and people will try the same thing over and over no matter how much of a failure it is each time. Why? Because these people believe the words of politicians, philosophers, academics and so forth, that tell them what they want to hear instead of the literal truth of reality.

To me, places like California and the other states mentioned are made up in large part of people who were raised with all the spoils and privledges created by common sense, hard work and conducting things based on how the world actually is, but who became seduced by and drawn in by the ideals and practices that run completely contrary to those by which they were raised out of. Lack of education, understanding, intuition, common sense, etc. are all at work here, coupled with that innate desire to see a perfection of man through a type utopia that has not existed since Eden, and as such, can only be written in stories or fantasies that come from someones mind.



mapachito13 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 10:08:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rofaith

I came to California from Colorado in 1998.... From El Paso County in Colorado to boot which is a Republican stronghold, one of very few left in Colorado due to the influence of liberal ideology in Denver and Boulder.

Anyway, I did notice that wherever the city and county governments were run by those of the liberal persuasion the standard of living tanked and cost of living went non-linear upwards. With conservative government the opposite. I'll stay because I'm comfortable with the weather and the state needs more of those with the conservative approach to government. But this is truly the state of the insane.... doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result..... as you might have noticed, the state of California is almost bankrupt and will need $ 7B to remain alive..... it's crazy here.....

In His Grip gratefully, rofaith


As a NATIVE Californian, I get so tired of people coming from other states and trashing their new home and saying, "it was better in [insert home state here]." You came here full well knowing this was a state that adheres to liberal governmental policies BUT you still came. If you don't like it......[;)]

I am constantly seeing people coming from other states to live here from those states that had "better (ie, more conservative) values" but they come here, why? Because their "better" state's economy is in the toilet and all the good jobs are here! They couldn't find a good paying job in that state that has "better" policies!

It seems that this "socialist" state (whose GDP is almost as big -87%- of the next two states COMBINED!) has to employ all you self-righteous conservatives!



Zhi -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 10:33:30 AM)

Come now. You know that GDP only makes sense on a per capita basis (at which point California drops drastically) and even then when you take into account cost of living (which is an even more drastic drop). California, as of last count, is behind Colorado (#10 at $41,663 vs #8 at $41,798) on per capita GDP, despite the fact that cost of living is much, much higher.

California has the biggest population by a huge amount. If they couldn't manage the largest GDP, that would be really horrible.



rofaith -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 12:23:11 PM)

Mapachito...sorry to offend... truly was not my intent. Still love California... it's a beautiful state. I left Colorado for a lot of reasons not stated. I still would rather live here in Trabuco Canyon in South Orange County. It's like living in a garden.....peace my friend.
[:)]

ps: Questions ? Read my Testimony on the "Testify" forum as to why I left Colorado. I should say, peace my brother in Christ !



stamper_ben -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 12:26:38 PM)

Of course then there are those who purposefully migrate en mass to an area in order to change the region.
quote:

If you're interested and willing to attempt to literally change the world one community at a time then please Join us if your interested.
I give you Paulville!



mapachito13 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 1:49:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zhi

Come now. You know that GDP only makes sense on a per capita basis (at which point California drops drastically) and even then when you take into account cost of living (which is an even more drastic drop). California, as of last count, is behind Colorado (#10 at $41,663 vs #8 at $41,798) on per capita GDP, despite the fact that cost of living is much, much higher.

California has the biggest population by a huge amount. If they couldn't manage the largest GDP, that would be really horrible.


Coloradans are $235 per year more productive than us here in CA.

On the per capita GDP list, Texas, the land of Bush, is 20th (2nd in population, population is 2/3 the size of California), Arizona, the land of McCain is 37th (16th in population). Alaska is # 7 due to their oil but their cost of living is higher than any of the lower 48

But notice DC is number one at more than two times the next one down! Are our leaders way overpaid or what!



phreddy -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 1:53:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Of course then there are those who purposefully migrate en mass to an area in order to change the region.
quote:

If you're interested and willing to attempt to literally change the world one community at a time then please Join us if your interested.
I give you Paulville!



whew! I was afraid for a minute that your link was going to be another secessoinist trying to get people to come to South Carolina.



stamper_ben -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 2:08:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phreddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Of course then there are those who purposefully migrate en mass to an area in order to change the region.
quote:

If you're interested and willing to attempt to literally change the world one community at a time then please Join us if your interested.
I give you Paulville!



whew! I was afraid for a minute that your link was going to be another secessoinist trying to get people to come to South Carolina.

Naw. I'd really like to see people try to populate the dry, arid, rattlesnake and scorpion infested stretches of West Texas.[:D]

TRY being the operative word.



Zhi -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 2:15:48 PM)

quote:

Coloradans are $235 per year more productive than us here in CA.

And our houses cost about half what yours do even in our big cities (all, um, three of them if you count Boulder and the Springs), so we're more than okay with that. ;) Half my extended family is in California.

quote:

On the per capita GDP list, Texas, the land of Bush, is 20th (2nd in population, population is 2/3 the size of California), Arizona, the land of McCain is 37th (16th in population). Alaska is # 7 due to their oil but their cost of living is higher than any of the lower 48

It's mostly a matter of tech vs. blue collar everywhere but a couple of the metropolises... Colorado actually has a good bit of tech, Texas has a whole lot of blue collar comparatively. I think probably mostly because a farmer needs about double the physical land space to farm in Colorado as they do in Texas, due to climate mostly. Their cost of living is lower than even Colorado's... ironically, the other half of my extended family is in Texas. Guess which half whines less about their salaries and their mortgage payments? hehe. Okay, well, maybe the Texans comment more on their mortgages, but that's only because the Texans can actually afford to BUY a house. The Californians whine about their obscene rent payments.

quote:

But notice DC is number one at more than two times the next one down! Are our leaders way overpaid or what!

Heh, anyone who can actually afford to live in DC has to be wealthy, right? And only our leaders get to vote for their own raises. :P



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 2:31:05 PM)

quote:

I'd really like to see people try to populate the dry, arid, rattlesnake and scorpion infested stretches of West Texas.


I'm a big fan of plaes like that. It keeps most of the riff-raff out.



uncabeeil -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 3:42:32 PM)

quote:

Heh, anyone who can actually afford to live in DC has to be wealthy, right?
Are you serious? From my experience, other than Georgetown, the only people who live in DC are the ones who can't afford to move out to the suburbs. Get outside of the tourist areas and you'll see what I mean.



Zhi -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 4:18:53 PM)

Then how would you explain the high per capita GDP?



mapachito13 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 4:21:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zhi

quote:

Coloradans are $235 per year more productive than us here in CA.

And our houses cost about half what yours do even in our big cities (all, um, three of them if you count Boulder and the Springs), so we're more than okay with that. ;) Half my extended family is in California.

quote:

On the per capita GDP list, Texas, the land of Bush, is 20th (2nd in population, population is 2/3 the size of California), Arizona, the land of McCain is 37th (16th in population). Alaska is # 7 due to their oil but their cost of living is higher than any of the lower 48

It's mostly a matter of tech vs. blue collar everywhere but a couple of the metropolises... Colorado actually has a good bit of tech, Texas has a whole lot of blue collar comparatively. I think probably mostly because a farmer needs about double the physical land space to farm in Colorado as they do in Texas, due to climate mostly. Their cost of living is lower than even Colorado's... ironically, the other half of my extended family is in Texas. Guess which half whines less about their salaries and their mortgage payments? hehe. Okay, well, maybe the Texans comment more on their mortgages, but that's only because the Texans can actually afford to BUY a house. The Californians whine about their obscene rent payments.

quote:

But notice DC is number one at more than two times the next one down! Are our leaders way overpaid or what!

Heh, anyone who can actually afford to live in DC has to be wealthy, right? And only our leaders get to vote for their own raises. :P


First let me apologize, Zhi, I am not trying to get into a "my state is better than yours" argument! I have never lived in another state and I'm sure all those that love their home state (whether it was by birth of moving) have great reasons for their feelings. I've traveled enough around the country to know there are awesome places everywhere (even in Alaska [;)]) I have friends that live in Golden who grew up with me.

The price of real estate is just supply and demand. The demand is high so up goes the price. As our freeways show we have no shortage of new people coming here. It's amazing how many people with Texas plates on their cars that I see dropping off their kids at my son's school. Floridians and Georgians have been spotted doing that as well!

I guess after many decades of hearing it I am tired of people complaining about the Golden State. We're not perfect, but what state is?



mapachito13 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 4:29:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rofaith

Mapachito...sorry to offend... truly was not my intent. Still love California... it's a beautiful state. I left Colorado for a lot of reasons not stated. I still would rather live here in Trabuco Canyon in South Orange County. It's like living in a garden.....peace my friend.
[:)]

ps: Questions ? Read my Testimony on the "Testify" forum as to why I left Colorado. I should say, peace my brother in Christ !


It's OK. I guess I am a little sensitive about the constant criticism our state gets. So asking forgiveness from you is also warranted. It ain't perfect, by no means, but I love it and as Randy Newman crooned "I love LA"! If people think I'm [sm=silly.gif] but that's OK my wife will agree with that sentiment! [:D] I do have a t-shirt that reads, "I live in my own little world but it's OK they know me here!"



stamper_ben -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 4:29:31 PM)

quote:

As our freeways show we have no shortage of new people coming here. It's amazing how many people with Texas plates on their cars that I see dropping off their kids at my son's school. Floridians and Georgians have been spotted doing that as well!
Here either in the Houston area. But they (the Californians et al) must feel ashamed with the outta state plates, don't see 'em.



mapachito13 -> RE: Did you not learn your lesson? (10/10/2008 4:36:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

As our freeways show we have no shortage of new people coming here. It's amazing how many people with Texas plates on their cars that I see dropping off their kids at my son's school. Floridians and Georgians have been spotted doing that as well!
Here either in the Houston area. But they (the Californians et al) must feel ashamed with the outta state plates, don't see 'em.


I think I missed the point you were trying to make. Please clarify.

One thing I noticed about Houston was that the size of lots there looked a lot like the size here. The new housing tracts have people living right on top of each other with very small yards which was a surprise to me because usually everything's bigger there!



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