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Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 5:05:57 PM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 493
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Wyoming
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Hello All,
Ok, here is the scoop, I'm not sure if this is the right area to post this query or not, but I'm rolling with it if you all will!
I was out shopping (grumbles) and because it is one of my all time favorite things to do in the whole wide world, I was so very excited (hope your picking up on the sarcasm), I wasn't in the best mood.
Anyway, I was tired of being irritated so as i was entering the store i saw my opportunity, a young lady was trying to get out of the store with some items and kiddo's tagging along so I opened the door for her and the kids and she gave me a look like I just sent in a Airstrike and destroyed her sense of independance!
I told her to have a Fantastic Day and she gave me a half smile and pressed on........So, is Chivalry a Dieing thing in this world or is it a localized thing with certain women? Do women not like it when a man opens a door for them or pulls a chair out to allow them to sit (Especially when they are wearing a dress), or warm the toilet seat for them in the morning? <sigh><smile>
Note: I did think that she may have been having a bad day as well and was just so overwhelmed with joy for that small thing she forgot herself <smile>.
Just Curious, doesn't mean I will stop doing it :P
-Kell
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 5:50:11 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1946
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Bless your heart, Kellgaste. You were kind to her, and she repaid you with unkindness. Not good on her part. You were generous and chalked it up to having a bad day; very gracious on your part.
The Women's Liberation has put forth the lie that men's courtesy to woman is patronizing and degrading (because she's just as good as a man, right? But not many women could carry my carcass out of a burning building), and many women feel insulted if a guy opens a door for them. Since she had packages and a little kid, I'm guessing also she was just frazzled.
If you continue to act in a courtly manner, you will get flack. It's not fair, but there you are. Some women like it; my husband is a most courteous gentleman and it's part of why I love him so much. He occasionally gets flack, too. He lives with it (sometimes muttering "Philistine" to himself). 
I dunno; you keep called women "my lady" and they're all going to think you're in love with them.
Keep up the kindness; we aren't all out to prove we're as good as any man. Because we know.... shhhh, don't let this get out.... some of us know we're different. Hee hee. Vive le differance. Open a door for me and you'll get a smile and a thank you. And lots of good will.
Rock on, Kellgaste!
_____________________________
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 6:31:47 PM
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willfs
Posts: 348
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I think what deermousie said "someone repaying kindness with unkindness" has been around since the dawn of mankind.
Some of it might be that the woman's liberation movement has been taken too far by some people.
Could it also be that woman are kinda suspicious of any stranger. I mean they kinda have to be in this day and age. They don't want to appear to friendly because it might seem kinda flirty. I have opened doors for plenty of woman I don't know and they rarely show a lot of gratitude. I always figured they didn't want to seem to be too friendly in order too give out any signals. That's just an idea.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 6:43:23 PM
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deedeeowens
Posts: 89
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My teenage daughter used to get mad at my husband for opening the car door for me. "She's not stupid! She knows how to open a door for herself!" I'm not at all sure where the attitude came from, but for awhile I was asking myself a simular question "Has appreciation for chivalry died? Am I the last generation that likes this stuff?" Then, she started dating and suddenly her tune changed. One day she came home from a date all sparkley eyed and said, "He's so nice. He even opens the door for me." I guess chivalry still has its place after all.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 6:55:18 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 1010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deedeeowens
My teenage daughter used to get mad at my husband for opening the car door for me. "She's not stupid! She knows how to open a door for herself!" I'm not at all sure where the attitude came from, but for awhile I was asking myself a simular question "Has appreciation for chivalry died? Am I the last generation that likes this stuff?" Then, she started dating and suddenly her tune changed. One day she came home from a date all sparkley eyed and said, "He's so nice. He even opens the door for me." I guess chivalry still has its place after all.
Oh, I know where that attitude comes from! LOL I used to sort of share it... but now I'd give my left arm for some chivalry! figuratively speaking of course.
Good for you Kell!
p.s. when I glance at your name I read "kellsgate" lol
~blessings
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 7:04:50 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23494
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Kellgaste,
God bless you.
I very much appreciate chivalry.
Whenever a man opens a door for me, etc., I always smile very big and clearly thank him so that he will hear me.
And yes . . . please don't stop doing what you're doing.
_____________________________
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 7:37:43 PM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 493
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From: Wyoming
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Willfs: True true, I notice the uneasiness in the eyes often times, but chalk it up to they haven't received it enough to really see what it says....ie, "You are worthy, even though i don't know you, you deserve a show of love" in a world that seems to be trying to suppress it. I don't get upset at the "lack" of thanks, its the looks of shock, like its something completely alien .
Deermousie: Great story! Thank you. I like your Hubby already! lol Philistines! Thats great! <wipes eyes>. As for the "My Lady" title, I get A LOT of Flack from using that IRL, Oh my let me tell you! I said that to a woman coming out of the theatre and she nearly tripped and fell, then scowled...I tried to not laugh, because it all turned out comical. One Lady didn't know what to say, and another smiled, reached up and patted my cheek. (She was a wise looking woman). Over-all I have gotten good responses but some younger women seem to get creeped out by the "My Lady" title <sigh>. Its not as bad in a forum such as this as they are not looking me in the eyes when I say it <chuckle>.
Deedee: That is to funny! Glad she now appreciates it!
Raivyne: No worries on the name confussion, Kell is fine :P.
WhiteRoseBlessings: Not a chance! <smile> Glad to hear you show that it means a lot, that encourages us Men to continue to do it!
Now a little story of my own for you all: My son who is in 2nd grade (7 3/4 y/o) this year has been my little padawan in the Chivalry department. I started on him last year and its already paying dividends. He now tends to open the doors to the play ground for all the young ladies (his teacher is telling me this) and even pulls their chair out for them. Now, I am a hugger, so it seems it has worked its way into him as well...I get a call from his teacher to come see her after work, so I do. She says, "Mr Norris, I need to speak to you about your son, he hugs a lot." I smiled and had to look away to keep from laughing. She then follows up with, "Now I have worked out a system that is working well thus far and wanted to make you aware, he has been limited to 3 hugs a day." I smiled and said thank you for letting me know. She thought it was cute but guess it started to becme a little to much.
I left the school and told him great job, then after he was playing with friends I laughed long and hard and said, "Thank you Lord!"
-Kell
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 7:41:53 PM
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creationtalk
Posts: 705
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Chivalry dead?
Boy I hope not. I'm still hoping that my knight will come along with his slightly tarnished armor and defend my honor as he works beside me building a life together.
I've gone through the "I can do it all myself" stage...now I'm to the "I can do (and have done) it all myself, but it's sure nice when I don't have to" stage.
I am very grateful and (hopefully) gracious when someone does a small kindness for me such as open the door, etc.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 7:55:22 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8028
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Chivalry is never dead as long as some of us knights continue to practice it.
When I run into a woman who resents me opening the door for her I just wait until she goes through anyway (I have all day to teach someone manners) and bless her with my cheeriest (and sincere) "Have a wonderful day"
A few years back when M was still with me I was always getting in trouble with our couples friends husbands. M never opened a car door or other door if I could help it. And their wives noticed that and started in on their husbands. I thought it was cool. It's not a lady's job to open doors.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 8:44:22 PM
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mvic
Posts: 1801
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Let me tell you about Chivalry.
Once in a restaurant I did pull a chair for a lady friend. She missed it and fell to the ground !!!!
As I parked the car at the supermarket I got out, walked to the other side, and opened the door for my lady companion to get out. An old man saw me and said: "That's nice. Chivalry is not dead after all."
My lady companion replied: "Chivalry has nothing to do with it. The car door doesn't open properly from inside !!!!"
I once helped an old lady cross the street. When we got to the other side she hit me on the head with her umbrella. Turns out she didn't want to cross at all !!!!
This Knight's armour is all tarnished and battered. But he'll continue trying !!!
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/8/2008 10:00:13 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1946
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kellgaste
Great story! Thank you. I like your Hubby already! lol Philistines! Thats great! <wipes eyes>.
Thanks, Kell. He's a good man and really fun to live with, and you and he would have a blast talking and swapping stories, I'm sure.
quote:
As for the "My Lady" title, I get A LOT of Flack from using that IRL,
It hints of a time of feudal control, when a knight was literally "owned" and committed to a highborn lady. So, yeah, a person who was well-read (or went to the right movies) might get a hint of obligation and inappropriate relations there. Just sayin'.
quote:
She says, "Mr Norris, I need to speak to you about your son, he hugs a lot." <>I left the school and told him great job, then after he was playing with friends I laughed long and hard and said, "Thank you Lord!"
LOL What a great little guy! You are right to be proud and grateful.
Some schools will actually call hugging sexual harassment, so be aware of the political atmosphere. Ridiculous, I know, but those HR people have to justify their jobs I guess.
Sorry this is so negative; I don't want to see you get chewed up by the crazies. I wish more men were like you, your son and my husband.
Creationtalk, may God bring you your own knight so the two of you can build a wonderful life together. I married late because I wanted the best or none at all, and I got it! Praise God! I'm confident that God will reward your high standards as well.
< Message edited by deermousie -- 10/8/2008 10:26:05 PM >
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 1:39:17 AM
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Focusing
Posts: 6007
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Kellgaste,
Chivalry is not dead ... and I am thankful for that. I absolutely love it when a man holds the door open for me. Especially when he goes out of his way to make sure he gets to the door to open it for me. Big points!  Or sticks his hands in the elevator door to make sure it reopens so I don't have to wait for the next one (I work in a highrise, so it can take a while). Definitely big points!!
Many men are considerate in these little ways, and it means a lot! Keep on doing what you're doing. There are lots of women who appreciate it, even if they don't always acknowledge it. I try to, with a verbal thank you, but I'm sure there are days when my mind is so preoccupied I may have given a "look" ... I hope not, but I can't say 100% for sure.
As far as this young lady ... you know, there are a lot of people in this world who have bitterness running rampant through their hearts. It's very sad.  Perhaps she was having a bad day, or had a fight with her husband (or maybe her ex?), or she enjoys shopping with the kidlettes as much as you appear to enjoy shopping. Who knows. But, perhaps once she got all her stuff done for the day and the kids to bed and she had a moment, it may have run through her mind that "Hey! Some nice guy opened the door for me and I didn't even have to ask. He just did it because." And do you know what, you may just have planted a little seed inside her that all men aren't horrible.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 8:53:31 AM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 493
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Wyoming
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John_O: Absolutelly! I tend to view the combination we Godly men display with Trusting the Lord Jesus Christ and Chivalry and our Prayers and need/want to protect our Women...as Liken to Paladin's Thoughts?
Mvic: <cringes> well Sir, I can understand that as well, Keep the Faith and know that it is appreciated, just read the replies from the Ladies here, they love it, thats all the motivation I need <grin>.
Deermousie: I understand about the Feudal control stigma, but if you Watch/read Robinhood (Errol Flynn), or any of the Hollywood versions of "My Lady" it is a show of Respect, Love, Caring, and Chivalry, not control, domination, sociatal placement etc....<smile>.
Now as to the HR/Politics.....<clears throat> the moto I tend to default to is thus (Especially for hardliners), "It is easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission." If it was a serious issue, the Principal would have asked to see me (Oh my that brings back memories :P). I Pray that he rubs off on the young ladies in his class, his teacher, and even the other boys <sigh>, its one fathers hope that Jesus shines through to others through my son in this small way....only time will tell <grin>.
Focusing: Wonderful to hear!!!! I did think about the bad day possibility and that is more the way I was erroring/benefit of the doubt. I was just hoping she had a better day. LOL, yes to the shopping possibility as well <clears throat>, umm, yeah, as to shopping...nevermind.
-Kell
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 9:06:28 AM
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raivyne
Posts: 1010
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Its wonderful you are teaching such good things to your little man Kell! :)
_____________________________
P.U.S.H. – Pray Until Something Happens
What if God is asking us for a sign?
Knowledge is proud; wisdom is humble.
Patiently waiting for my KSA
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 4:57:37 PM
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willfs
Posts: 348
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I held the door open today for two ladies and then seemed pretty appreciative. It made me think of your post.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 6:22:51 PM
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buckifn
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I don't think it will ever be outdated for those of us who were taught to be "gentlemen".
A few weeks ago when leaving the hospital from visiting a friend there was a terribly hard rainstorm and an elderly lady was waiting there by the door fretting because she didn't have an umbrella. I offered to walk her to her car using mine and she was very grateful.
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