|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/8/2008 7:51:17 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 2191
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
I mean look at the level of punishment for certain sins in the law. A man has sex with another man both a stoned to death.
Exodus 22
Responsibility for Property
1 “If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep. 2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
It is clear that homosexuality and theft are both sins but he punishment level is way different. One is death and the other is just paying back.
This is OT law. It does not mean now what it meant then. Christ died so that we don't have too.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/8/2008 8:21:43 PM
|
|
|
Child4Jesus
Posts: 470
Joined: 5/24/2005
From: Long Island, Nassau, Elmont, NY
Status: offline
|
quote:
I mean look at the level of punishment for certain sins in the law. A man has sex with another man both a stoned to death.
Exodus 22
Responsibility for Property
1 “If a man steals an ox or a sheep, and slaughters it or sells it, he shall restore five oxen for an ox and four sheep for a sheep. 2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
It is clear that homosexuality and theft are both sins but he punishment level is way different. One is death and the other is just paying back.
This is OT law. It does not mean now what it meant then. Christ died so that we don't have too.
OK. Saying that is OT doesn't change anything. Of course it still means the same. Obviously we aren't stoning homosexuals to death today however I used those to illustrate something to you. Obviously a petty thief and a murderer without Jesus are both gonna end up the same way. However saying theft and murder is the same thing to God is ludicrous. Same yes in that they are both sin. However nowhere near the same in respect to the lives it affects, the consequences of each, etc. I would argue that the thief is a better person if you base his goodness on what he has done compared to the murderer. However the standard of holiness is 100% and neither of these fictional people can reach it without Jesus Christ.
_____________________________
In Christ,
Richad
The greatest heresy to American Christianity is that if you ask Jesus to come into your heart, he definitely will.
Paul Washer
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/8/2008 8:58:01 PM
|
|
|
deliveredarling
Posts: 2191
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Rom 13:9 For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
It appears in the NT they are equal, along with ALL the others.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/8/2008 9:19:56 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 11750
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please confine your posts to answering the OP and start another thread for the off-topic discussion.
Thanks.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/19/2008 5:05:31 PM
|
|
|
TorchHeart
Posts: 1979
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
|
Why do people continue to make this thread a debate, rather than a forum for one group of people to be able to state what they believe?????
I didn't make this thread for people to simply berate other Christians for their beliefs! I made it so that one side of an argument gets to state their view and explain themselves without having to be run down by the other side!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/20/2008 8:24:20 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
It appears in the NT they are equal, along with ALL the others.
Incorrect. Gone to get what Jesus said.
Mt 23:23
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/20/2008 11:02:42 AM
|
|
|
solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Why do people continue to make this thread a debate, rather than a forum for one group of people to be able to state what they believe?????
I didn't make this thread for people to simply berate other Christians for their beliefs! I made it so that one side of an argument gets to state their view and explain themselves without having to be run down by the other side!
That's the nature of the forums when it comes to some issues.
I think for many of us, the "When does life begin question" has different answers. Many will say it's conception, but unless someone shows me where God said that, it's just an opinion that people want to say God said in the Bible somewhere... and many times the verses cited don't "prove" their side of the argument. I understand and respect it, but some Christians get down in the mud when others don't agree with them on this, and that usually makes me lose respect for them.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/20/2008 11:11:16 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
I believe life begins at 40.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/20/2008 12:03:21 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 11750
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Again, this thread is not a debate thread, it is *only* for those who are Christian *and* pro-choice to explain their beliefs.
If you are not a pro-choice Christian, this is not a thread for you to post in.
Further posts that ignore this warning will be removed and a report filed against the offender's account.
Thanks!
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/22/2008 5:41:20 PM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
I think for many of us, the "When does life begin question" has different answers. Many will say it's conception, but unless someone shows me where God said that, it's just an opinion that people want to say God said in the Bible somewhere... and many times the verses cited don't "prove" their side of the argument. I understand and respect it, but some Christians get down in the mud when others don't agree with them on this, and that usually makes me lose respect for them.
Life begins after my first cup of coffee.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/25/2008 11:02:29 AM
|
|
|
TorchHeart
Posts: 1979
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
|
quote:
That's the nature of the forums when it comes to some issues.
Can't people just ask questions, though, without trying to be condeming?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/25/2008 3:51:41 PM
|
|
|
Kath
Posts: 16935
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
|
Please get back to the topic. Thank you.
Sincerely
Kath
Please do not comment on this action in the community or send me a PM about it. If you have questions, comments or concerns please email Fritz at community@salemwebnetwork.com allowing time for a reply. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 11/26/2008 12:00:25 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
How do Christians who are Pro-Choice justify their decision to hold that view in correlation their faith?
I have always considered myself pro-life.
There are some on these boards who have told me that I am pro-choice because I believe that if the mother's life is in danger she should have the right to choose for herself.
IRL- Not too long ago I was discussing one of Karen Kingsbury's books where she has a character (Ashley) whose baby is born with anecephaly (sp?). I said that I felt they gave another character (Brooke) a bad rap because she felt abortion was the best thing for the mother. I honestly do not see Brooke as being pro-choice just because she felt that abortion was OK in that and I didn't see Ashley as heroic for giving birth. Again, I was referred to as pro-choice.
I honestly feel in both of those situations, the decision is between the God, the woman and her doctor and none of my business.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/20/2008 1:12:40 PM
|
|
|
solo_soprano22
Posts: 2431
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
|
Yeah, my medical ethics professor was a former doctor (and cellist, author, Dr. of physiology... basically everything under the sun that's decent), and he often said that he recommended abortion in cases of anencephaly. He was a pastor as well and has several theology/seminary degrees as well. I see his point with anencephaly, but of course, it's up to the woman. I think perhaps he felt it was less trauma to abort than to carry the baby and have it die that way. And I remember reading in a book about the truth behind the Thalidomide scandal, that people were scared to look at their own babies... I think this may be the same way... but in this case there's no life (as there are with Thalidomide babies).
I think with mother's life vs baby's, some believe the baby always trumps the mother. I'm not sure how I feel about that one, but I think it's up to the woman when that choice needs to be made.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/22/2008 7:31:36 PM
|
|
|
eternallyme
Posts: 5
Joined: 12/22/2008
Status: offline
|
I don't get it either, but there are 2 things to note:
1) Many nominal Christians are too much in tune with the extremely pro-abortion establishment, and push the Biblical views aside for the community views.
2) There are a number of Christian churches that are pro-abortion. Most of them are seeing their membership tanking though.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/23/2008 12:48:52 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't anencephaly is one of those birth defect that may not be detected until very late in the pregnancy? Since the ban on the D&X procedure, how would a woman be able to terminate such a pregnancy. In any case, such a serious decision should be the woman's, ultimately.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/23/2008 1:27:24 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
relady-
anencephaly
An experienced specialist using a high-resolution ultrasound scan can detect an anencephaly as early as the 10th week. In less-than-ideal circumstances, however, an anencephaly cannot be picked up or ruled out by an ultrasound scan until the 16th week of the pregnancy.
AFP levels can be measured via a maternal serum screening test (blood test). If levels are high, there is a risk that the child may be suffering from an NTD. Further tests must then be carried out (ultrasound scan or amniocentesis) to determine whether there really is a problem. Screening must take place between the 15th and the 20th week, the best time being the 16th week.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/25/2008 2:37:28 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
Wow, I didn't know it was generally diagnosed that early in the pregnancy. Actually, that is a good thing, IMO. It's been several years since i worked in a residential care facility for profoundly retarded, multi-handicapped children but we had a couple of anencephalic children there. At that time, it was not often discovered until it was too late to make any kind of decision other than where to place the child, because those children need round the clock nursing care, and that's if they survive. Some do. Personally, if I were the pregnant mother, I would want the option of abortion on the table because in that rare instance i would probably take it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/25/2008 11:17:25 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7427
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
Wow, I've never heard of an anencephaly baby surviving past the first 10 days ........ and I'm told even that is rare.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 12/25/2008 9:03:34 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1216
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
Oh, wait. I think it was microcephaly. Sorry. I would not want to give birth to one if I knew I could avoid it much earlier in the pregnancy, but that's just me. This residential care facility was an awesome place -- it was a non-profit and the two ladies that ran it went looking for kids just like that! We had kids who had suffered subdural hematomas from being abused, kids who suffered birth defects during delivery, all kinds of really rare situations that leave the kids profoundly multihandicapped and retarded. It was quite an experience working there...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Pro-choice AND Christian - Please explain - 1/2/2009 4:30:23 PM
|
|
|
MissInnocent
Posts: 207
Joined: 5/3/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
Wow, I didn't know it was generally diagnosed that early in the pregnancy. Actually, that is a good thing, IMO. It's been several years since i worked in a residential care facility for profoundly retarded, multi-handicapped children but we had a couple of anencephalic children there. At that time, it was not often discovered until it was too late to make any kind of decision other than where to place the child, because those children need round the clock nursing care, and that's if they survive. Some do. Personally, if I were the pregnant mother, I would want the option of abortion on the table because in that rare instance i would probably take it.
I don't know about anyone else but I remember when the first newborn heart transplant took place. I have also seen the movie about it a few times. And the donor baby was an anencephalic baby. So I would have my baby if for no other reason but to give her/his usable organs to someone else's baby so they'd have a chance.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
I think everyone thinks their opinion is right on this issue, and we all (most I think) read the same Bible and believe in the same God. (Here anyway.) 