Taxes: Who Pays What

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edrummer -> Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 12:15:30 PM)
Interesting data below. It shows that the bottom 50% of income earners pay about 3% of the federal income taxes and the tax burden on them has been decreasing. The top 10% of income earners pay 71% of the federal income taxes and their tax burden has been increasing. The top 5 percent (AGI > $153K) pay 60% of the federal income taxes. I believe the AGI is household income. Further analysis shows that the top 5% earn 37% of the AGI and pay 60% of the taxes. The bottom 50% earn 12.5% of the AGI and pay 3% (and that's fine). Now, I'm all for the bottom 50% paying low taxes. I'm for everyone paying low taxes. But, the rhetoric that "the rich don't pay their fair share" is an outright lie and I'm tired of it being propagated. In the area I live, a household AGI of $153K is not rich. It's comfortable, but not rich. $108K in my area will get you by if you're debt free. I just think the discussion on taxes should be based on data and this is what the IRS found. We should be thankful we live in a country where people can pursue their dreams and get rich...and pay our taxes. [;)] For Tax Year 2006 Column 1 Percentiles Ranked by AGI Column 2 AGI Threshold on Percentiles Column 3 Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid Top 1% $388,806 39.89% Top 5% $153,542 60.14% Top 10% $108,904 70.79% Top 25% $64,702 86.27% Top 50% $31,987 97.01% Bottom 50% <$31,987 2.99% Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2005 Top 1% $364,657 39.38 % Top 5% $145,283 59.67 % Top 10% $103,912 70.30 % Top 25% $62,068 85.99 % Top 50% $30,881 96.93 % Bottom 50% <$30,881 3.07% Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2004 Top 1% $328,049 36.89 % Top 5% $137,056 57.13 % Top 10% $99,112 68.19 % Top 25% $60,041 84.86 % Top 50% $30,122 96.70 % Bottom 50% <$30,122 3.30 % Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2003 Top 1% $295,495 34.27 Top 5% $130,080 54.36 Top 10% $94,891 65.84 Top 25% $57,343 83.88 Top 50% $29,019 96.54 Bottom 50% <$29,019 3.46 Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service and so on....

Dubya -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 12:34:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer Interesting data below. It shows that the bottom 50% of income earners pay about 3% of the federal income taxes and the tax burden on them has been decreasing. The top 10% of income earners pay 71% of the federal income taxes and their tax burden has been increasing. The top 5 percent (AGI > $153K) pay 60% of the federal income taxes. I believe the AGI is household income. Further analysis shows that the top 5% earn 37% of the AGI and pay 60% of the taxes. The bottom 50% earn 12.5% of the AGI and pay 3% (and that's fine). Now, I'm all for the bottom 50% paying low taxes. I'm for everyone paying low taxes. But, the rhetoric that "the rich don't pay their fair share" is an outright lie and I'm tired of it being propagated. In the area I live, a household AGI of $153K is not rich. It's comfortable, but not rich. $108K in my area will get you by if you're debt free. I just think the discussion on taxes should be based on data and this is what the IRS found. We should be thankful we live in a country where people can pursue their dreams and get rich...and pay our taxes. [;)] For Tax Year 2006 Column 1 Percentiles Ranked by AGI Column 2 AGI Threshold on Percentiles Column 3 Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid Top 1% $388,806 39.89% Top 5% $153,542 60.14% Top 10% $108,904 70.79% Top 25% $64,702 86.27% Top 50% $31,987 97.01% Bottom 50% <$31,987 2.99% Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2005 Top 1% $364,657 39.38 % Top 5% $145,283 59.67 % Top 10% $103,912 70.30 % Top 25% $62,068 85.99 % Top 50% $30,881 96.93 % Bottom 50% <$30,881 3.07% Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2004 Top 1% $328,049 36.89 % Top 5% $137,056 57.13 % Top 10% $99,112 68.19 % Top 25% $60,041 84.86 % Top 50% $30,122 96.70 % Bottom 50% <$30,122 3.30 % Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2003 Top 1% $295,495 34.27 Top 5% $130,080 54.36 Top 10% $94,891 65.84 Top 25% $57,343 83.88 Top 50% $29,019 96.54 Bottom 50% <$29,019 3.46 Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service and so on.... So basically, the bottom 50% has consistently benefitted fromthe Bush tax policy. Amazing!!!!

mapachito13 -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 12:36:43 PM)
Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI?

edrummer -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 12:46:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former.

uncabeeil -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 12:52:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former. Try the same exercise based on the latter and I think you'll find a vastly different story.

mapachito13 -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 1:20:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: uncabeeil quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former. Try the same exercise based on the latter and I think you'll find a vastly different story. I notice that this figure is after deductions and only for those with a positive AGI (IOW they didn't have enough deductions or a creative enough accountant to wipe out their taxable earnings). Is there a table that shows how much tax is paid based on a percentage of the gross income? Before the deductions, tax exemptions and credits come into play? I didn't realize I was one of the top 25%! Why doesn't it feel like I am?

edrummer -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 1:25:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: uncabeeil quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former. Try the same exercise based on the latter and I think you'll find a vastly different story. Will you do that for us?

edrummer -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 1:26:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: uncabeeil quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former. Try the same exercise based on the latter and I think you'll find a vastly different story. I notice that this figure is after deductions and only for those with a positive AGI (IOW they didn't have enough deductions or a creative enough accountant to wipe out their taxable earnings). Is there a table that shows how much tax is paid based on a percentage of the gross income? Before the deductions, tax exemptions and credits come into play? I didn't realize I was one of the top 25%! Why doesn't it feel like I am? The figure is adjusted GROSS income before deductions.

raivyne -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 1:31:48 PM)
OMIGOSH YOU CAN'T POST THIS DATA!!! It may not compute with the "tax cuts for the rich" mentality... might just shatter it all to pieces... oh but wait... that's right - those in the top %'s don't pay enough to fund a socialist agenda. [8\|]

mapachito13 -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 1:42:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: raivyne OMIGOSH YOU CAN'T POST THIS DATA!!! It may not compute with the "tax cuts for the rich" mentality... might just shatter it all to pieces... oh but wait... that's right - those in the top %'s don't pay enough to fund a socialist agenda. [8\|] OOOOOH! You used the "s" word! [:o] I'm running the other way right now! [:D] If it were a pay for use system, you wouldn't be able to afford it! BTW, Isn't it something that our men and women fighting in Iraq are in the lower 50% category?

letusreason -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 2:07:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: raivyne OMIGOSH YOU CAN'T POST THIS DATA!!! It may not compute with the "tax cuts for the rich" mentality... might just shatter it all to pieces... oh but wait... that's right - those in the top %'s don't pay enough to fund a socialist agenda. [8\|] OOOOOH! You used the "s" word! [:o] I'm running the other way right now! [:D] If it were a pay for use system, you wouldn't be able to afford it! BTW, Isn't it something that our men and women fighting in Iraq are in the lower 50% category? Don't worry bout them, their housing, meals, life insurance, and medical benefits are covered by you.

uncabeeil -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 3:43:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: uncabeeil quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former. Try the same exercise based on the latter and I think you'll find a vastly different story. Will you do that for us? Wouldn't know where to start. Figured since you came up with all of that, you could do it again with a slightly different set of parameters. On a hunch, I think you'd find those with the most are the ones paying the least since they can afford to hire accountants and lawyers to find all the loopholes that "Joe Sixpack" doesn't know about.

ekserekseez -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 3:44:43 PM)
quote: In the area I live, a household AGI of $153K is not rich. You've got that right. I've spent that much on clothes in one year. The point should not be who has what percentage of the tax burden. EVERYONE'S taxes are too high, because the government funds stupid, illegal, and unconstitutional enterprises. If the federal government restricted itself to its constitutional limits, EVERYONE'S taxes would go down. Including mine, which is my main point.

rlj -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 4:59:52 PM)
quote: So basically, the bottom 50% has consistently benefitted fromthe Bush tax policy. Amazing!!!! It's really sad how much I dislike the president when I pay about $25 a year in federal taxes and this year the government has given me 5.5kish or so.

GroupW -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 7:07:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: uncabeeil quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: uncabeeil quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 Is the percentage paid that you show that of the total tax bill or of the individual's/households AGI? The former. Try the same exercise based on the latter and I think you'll find a vastly different story. Will you do that for us? Wouldn't know where to start. Figured since you came up with all of that, you could do it again with a slightly different set of parameters. On a hunch, I think you'd find those with the most are the ones paying the least since they can afford to hire accountants and lawyers to find all the loopholes that "Joe Sixpack" doesn't know about. That used to be the case. AMT has pretty much fixed that. Of course, in the process it's snagging a whole bunch of middle class folk along with the rich ones now. I can work up those numbers for you pretty easily. Bad news - Generally speaking, they don't support your hunch.

iluvatar -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 8:26:42 PM)
What's left out of these figures is the percentage of total income is earned within these brackets. Even with a flat tax, when omitting that figure, the "Top 1%" will still appear to pay a disproportionate amount of the overall tax. -Dan.

mapachito13 -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/8/2008 10:43:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW That used to be the case. AMT has pretty much fixed that. Of course, in the process it's snagging a whole bunch of middle class folk along with the rich ones now. I can work up those numbers for you pretty easily. Bad news - Generally speaking, they don't support your hunch. There are of course the upper 1% who sometimes have special, tailor made, tax deductions courtesy of the federal legislator that they paid off (ahem) gave them a sizeable campaign contribution! There is also the coporation shell game that these guys play to shield their money from the tax man as well. But please post your numbers, with the verifiable links as well, it would be much appreciated!

kernsfamily -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 10:36:18 AM)
quote: There are of course the upper 1% who sometimes have special, tailor made, tax deductions courtesy of the federal legislator that they paid off (ahem) gave them a sizeable campaign contribution! There is also the coporation shell game that these guys play to shield their money from the tax man as well. If that WERE the case (please cite specific examples of these "super secret deductions" if it IS the case)....then, wouldn't the SHARE of taxes paid by all those "TOP 1%" people be lower? And, instead of their share of taxes they paid going UP over the past several years, wouldn't the "share" of what they pay actually be going DOWN? does AMT not "apply" to them? if not, explain how.

upNORTder -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 10:47:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dubya quote: ORIGINAL: edrummer Interesting data below. It shows that the bottom 50% of income earners pay about 3% of the federal income taxes and the tax burden on them has been decreasing. The top 10% of income earners pay 71% of the federal income taxes and their tax burden has been increasing. The top 5 percent (AGI > $153K) pay 60% of the federal income taxes. I believe the AGI is household income. Further analysis shows that the top 5% earn 37% of the AGI and pay 60% of the taxes. The bottom 50% earn 12.5% of the AGI and pay 3% (and that's fine). Now, I'm all for the bottom 50% paying low taxes. I'm for everyone paying low taxes. But, the rhetoric that "the rich don't pay their fair share" is an outright lie and I'm tired of it being propagated. In the area I live, a household AGI of $153K is not rich. It's comfortable, but not rich. $108K in my area will get you by if you're debt free. I just think the discussion on taxes should be based on data and this is what the IRS found. We should be thankful we live in a country where people can pursue their dreams and get rich...and pay our taxes. [;)] For Tax Year 2006 Column 1 Percentiles Ranked by AGI Column 2 AGI Threshold on Percentiles Column 3 Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid Top 1% $388,806 39.89% Top 5% $153,542 60.14% Top 10% $108,904 70.79% Top 25% $64,702 86.27% Top 50% $31,987 97.01% Bottom 50% <$31,987 2.99% Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2005 Top 1% $364,657 39.38 % Top 5% $145,283 59.67 % Top 10% $103,912 70.30 % Top 25% $62,068 85.99 % Top 50% $30,881 96.93 % Bottom 50% <$30,881 3.07% Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2004 Top 1% $328,049 36.89 % Top 5% $137,056 57.13 % Top 10% $99,112 68.19 % Top 25% $60,041 84.86 % Top 50% $30,122 96.70 % Bottom 50% <$30,122 3.30 % Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service For Tax Year 2003 Top 1% $295,495 34.27 Top 5% $130,080 54.36 Top 10% $94,891 65.84 Top 25% $57,343 83.88 Top 50% $29,019 96.54 Bottom 50% <$29,019 3.46 Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income Source: Internal Revenue Service and so on.... So basically, the bottom 50% has consistently benefitted fromthe Bush tax policy. Amazing!!!! I'd rather make more AND pay more taxes than "benifitting" by having my wages kept low by Bushes policies. I suppose all the unemployed should thank George that they don't have to pay any income tax. Way to go GWB.

kernsfamily -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 10:58:51 AM)
quote: I'd rather make more AND pay more taxes than "benifitting" by having my wages kept low by Bushes policies. I suppose all the unemployed should thank George that they don't have to pay any income tax. Way to go GWB. Wages kept low by Bush's policies??? A President has NOTHING to do with your wages....(except, of course, be the one to blame if it isn't what you want it to be)... I was unemployed, and UNDER-employed in the late 1990s....exactly WHICH "policies" of Clinton's do I blame for that? Over the past 5 years....my salary has skyrocketed (and MANY people I know have been doing quite well...it's not just me) .....exactly WHICH "policies" of Bush's do I credit for that? (way to go GWB!) YOUR PERSONAL financial condition is controlled much more by what happens in YOUR house, than by who is in the WHITE HOUSE, or anything that happens there.

stamper_ben -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 12:33:11 PM)
quote: Wages kept low by Bush's policies??? Yes. Didn't you know that in that secret underground bunker where Cheney hides out all the time is where GW and the cabal sit down and plan every man, woman and child's wage?[8\|]

letusreason -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 1:28:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: upNORTder I'd rather make more AND pay more taxes than "benifitting" by having my wages kept low by Bushes policies. I suppose all the unemployed should thank George that they don't have to pay any income tax. Way to go GWB. Looks like your comedic avatar suits your comedic statements pretty well. You will get your second wish if Obama is elected. As for Bush, you are mislead. His tax cuts increased income. Read the facts. "information is from page 46 of the Census Bureau report, "Income, Poverty and Health Insurance in the United States: 2006," http://www.bizzyblog.com/wp-images/CensusIncomeQuintilesEtc2003to2006.jpg

GroupW -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 4:02:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW That used to be the case. AMT has pretty much fixed that. Of course, in the process it's snagging a whole bunch of middle class folk along with the rich ones now. I can work up those numbers for you pretty easily. Bad news - Generally speaking, they don't support your hunch. There are of course the upper 1% who sometimes have special, tailor made, tax deductions courtesy of the federal legislator that they paid off (ahem) gave them a sizeable campaign contribution! There is also the coporation shell game that these guys play to shield their money from the tax man as well. But please post your numbers, with the verifiable links as well, it would be much appreciated! Thanks for the reminder. I'll do that as soon as I can break free.

GroupW -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/9/2008 5:51:36 PM)
Here's what I've got for 2005: Top 1% - 23.1% effective tax rate Top 2-5% - 17.4% effective tax rate Top 6-10% - 12.4% effective tax rate Top 11-25% - 9.3% effective tax rate Top 26-50% - 6.9% effective tax rate Bottom 50% - 3.0% effective tax rate Sources: Tax Foundation, IRS That's for all returns with positive AGI's. AGI is wages, salaries and tips, capital gains, rents, alimonies, dividends, interest, royalties, farm income, unemployment comp, and a few other types of income. Fairly comprehensive with very few exclusions. Deductions from AGI are allowed for Health Savings Accounts, business expenses for performing artists/reservists, moving expenses, 50% of any self-employment tax, early withdrawal penalties on savings, alimony, IRA deductions, and student loan deductions. Generally speaking, these are all substantially limited deductions. It would be hard at high levels of income to come up with a negative AGI. Trust me - I've tried. It's hard to escape the conclusion that the wealthiest aren't avoid very much taxation relative to the average effective tax rate.

earthless -> RE: Taxes: Who Pays What (10/11/2008 9:46:34 AM)
I have never been hired by a poor individual.

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