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Covaan_Meshuga -> Users (10/3/2008 8:14:35 PM)

I have a real problem with users. I become completely irate when I feel like I am being used, and in most cases, I will go to many lengths in order to assure that I will not be used. So I am wondering what others think regarding my attitude. The reason I ask is because of something that came up very recently.

Situation 1a:
A new neighbor moved in. She was a very giving person, but her gifts had obvious strings attached. She admitted verbally that she gave because she expected back. Her cookies were lovely, but when I could not take her up to the school to pick up her daughter, she wasn't at all happy.

Situation 1b:
I allowed her to use part of our property. But when I made a purchase and needed to use our property ourselves, I explained this to her, and that was the last time she spoke to me decently. Now, she won't answer the door.

Situation 2a:
New people moved into the neighborhood. They stopped by and let me know that they had seen some questionable persons on the street, circling the block. I hadn't seen them. I thanked them for making me aware, but they went on, saying, "We have your back! We're on watch!" This alarmed me, because from past experience, these have been the words of people who ended up wanting a lot from me. They notified me another time of someone they thought to be of suspicious character.

Situation 2b:
One day soon afterward, they called and asked me to leave work in order to drive them up to pick up a relative from a nearby school. I was on a very tight schedule that day and told them so. But my thoughts were, "Here we go again."

I don't even know how to ask what I started this thread for. Help me out, please. Am I too selfish? Am I too anxious over being used? What?



Qtman -> RE: Users (10/3/2008 9:10:15 PM)

You seem to have the same problem my dear wife has. I tell her all the time....."No is the shortest word in the dictionary. Learn it and use it."[:D]



MrFribbles -> RE: Users (10/3/2008 10:13:55 PM)

Anyone who abuses generosity and uses it as an excuse to accrue favors deserves to be told no. In the situations you described, it seems your responses were entirely justified.
One thing I would advise, however, is just to be careful to not become too jaded. Don't hold back when opportunities for you to genuinely express your own generosity arrive.



pbaribeault -> RE: Users (10/3/2008 10:23:18 PM)

Them wanting is their problem.

Let them deal with it.

They can't use you without permission -- but there's no sense in you wanting them to stop wanting to do so. You can't control what they want or how they feel about not getting it.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Users (10/3/2008 11:32:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman
You seem to have the same problem my dear wife has. I tell her all the time....."No is the shortest word in the dictionary. Learn it and use it."[:D]

I know how to say no, and do at times (if I cannot help or if i do feel like I am being used), but I always feel guilty afterward. I think of those who bring up the Scripture that says to go the second mile, who advise that we ought to give until it hurts, who say that it hurts our witness to say no.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
One thing I would advise, however, is just to be careful to not become too jaded. Don't hold back when opportunities for you to genuinely express your own generosity arrive.

Something else I fear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pbaribeault
They can't use you without permission -- but there's no sense in you wanting them to stop wanting to do so. You can't control what they want or how they feel about not getting it.

True. But is it my selfishness that makes me feel used, that I am seeing reality, or am I prejudging them unreasonably.



Liveloved -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 1:01:05 AM)

Since you are asking, I will tell you what feeling used is about---it is about the self life, loving self and wanting to protect one's self. It is a product of our sin nature and it's the place we operate from when we're living out of the flesh.

Jesus laid down his life---and when you lay down your life, people CAN walk right over you and WILL walk right over you. In fact, they may kill you. They did Him.

So when you lay down your life, you cannot be used because you are actually willing to be used. Does that make sense to you? Jesus put it this way in John's gospel, "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative." (10:17-18) In other words, no one can take from us what we have chosen to give to them.

I think your dilemna is deciding what is 'right' for you to give in these situations. It is your choosing to give that will take away the feeling of being used.

For example, I had a younger friend who was newly married and she and her husband started their family. I offered to babysit for them. I really wanted to give them (esp her) this gift of childcare. So numerous times throughout the week, I would have their daughter. I received a verbal thank you sometimes but nothing else. Friends thought and told me I was being 'used' by this friend. And to be perfectly truthful, sometimes I felt that way as well. But then I had to straighten myself out. I had chosen to give myself away to this friend in this way. I was not being used. I was laying down my life for her. It was all in getting my thinking and my attitude right.

Anyway, hope that helps.[:)] LL



Kath -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 1:48:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

Them wanting is their problem.

Let them deal with it.

They can't use you without permission -- but there's no sense in you wanting them to stop wanting to do so. You can't control what they want or how they feel about not getting it.



I agree. I would hope eventually they would stop asking but not hold it against you as in your 1b example. I don't see anything selfish in your attitude at all. In fact, I think 2b is sort of incredible. I'd never ask a neighbor to leave their work day to accommodate me. There are taxis.



Oldwing -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 5:16:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

Situation 1b:
I allowed her to use part of our property. But when I made a purchase and needed to use our property ourselves, I explained this to her, and that was the last time she spoke to me decently. Now, she won't answer the door.


I think this neighbor was out to get what they could and keep it for their own. If they truly wanted to share your property they would not have reacted as they did.

quote:


Situation 2a:
..."We have your back! We're on watch!" ...


Usually the cry of a nosy neighbor. Keep your shades drawn.

quote:


Situation 2b:
One day soon afterward, they called and asked me to leave work in order to drive them up to pick up a relative from a nearby school. I was on a very tight schedule that day and told them so. But my thoughts were, "Here we go again."



Its possible that they simply wear blinders and don't have a grasp on your own needs. Have you spoken to them about boundaries or is that too uncomfortable to approach?



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 5:47:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Since you are asking, I will tell you what feeling used is about---it is about the self life, loving self and wanting to protect one's self. It is a product of our sin nature and it's the place we operate from when we're living out of the flesh.

I appreciate your answer, but because I am trying to figure all this out -- to find if i am being selfish or if I am being kind -- I want to ask you more.

I believe that in order to be fully kind to someone, one ought to help them not to stagnate but to grow. However, if I want to have some power over someone, or to raise myself to some personal level of my own idea of holiness or religiosity, I could let them use me so that I will feel better about me. So in your scenario of the young mother for whom you babysit, I would not do that, because I am teaching her to be a user, to be ungrateful, to be subsistent, and to not grow up and take responsibility. Now, I don't know if this is the right attitude or not, but this is the way I see it. That is why I am asking.

I believe that Messiah's main purpose in His life was to die for His people, and He did it. He has planted each of us, as individuals, on this planet to do something, but while it does happen, it is rarely to die for someone but to live in such a way as to be a positive influence. Would I be a positive influence if I let people walk all over me? Sometimes yes, and often no. But I am asking, because I want to be sure this is correct.
_____________________________

Kath, it does concern me about this particular young woman, because of her life-long circumstances. I feared that if i gave in once, she would be on me constantly for the same thing, and the rainy season just started! It wasn't even raining when she called, but it had been and would again. But I was in a major bind that day, too, because I had already missed my work-deadline by a couple hours, and would need a couple more hours to do what should have been finished at 1 p.m. because of others not meeting their deadlines. But as QT wrote, it wears on me to say no.
_____________________________

Oldwing, I have even considered parking somewhere else so they wouldn't know I was there, but they would figure that out soon. [:D]

quote:

Its possible that they simply wear blinders and don't have a grasp on your own needs. Have you spoken to them about boundaries or is that too uncomfortable to approach?

These neighbors (2a/2b) are brand new; the 1a/1b neighbors have been around for about four years now. I think they do have the magical blinders that seek for caregivers. I think that these can actually grow up and become self-sufficient, but I am not sure, and with them being so new, I haven't been real "clear" with them yet.
_____________________________

Yes, I do believe that those who are able need to learn to stand up on their own two feet, but at the same time, I want to reach out to those who are truly needy. At the same time this is going on, I have been trying to reach a grandmother who is destitute and rearing at least two grandchildren. I want to take her to the grocery store and buy her food.

But the difference between this grandmother and 1a/1b and 2a/2b is that they are perfectly capable of doing for themselves, but they would just rather someone else "does" for them. Did I just answer my own question or not? And this is not a rhetorical question.



manda59 -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 8:10:31 AM)

There's a difference in sacrificially serving someone, and letting them use you.

Sacrificially serving someone has value if it is showing them Christ's love and doing them good (ie drawing them closer to Him), and you see evidence of grace in them and a movement towards taking responsibility for themselves.

But when you start off trying to serve someone and then see that instead of helping them to be become mature and responsible, it is enabling them to remain in a state of expecting others to take responsibility for them, blaming others etc, then that is not wholesome, and it's time to establish some healthy boundaries, not just for your own protection but for theirs too (ie to protect them from their own toxic self-destructive ways of thinking).



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 9:33:06 AM)

Excellent post, Manda.



Abiyah, do you pray about specific situations in regards to whether you are to help someone or not?




In my own life, sometimes, yes a person does need help; and yes, the help should come from me.

Sometimes, while the person may, indeed, need help, I am not the one that should be doing the helping (regardless of whether or not I am able to help).

Sometimes, the person doesn't need help at all, but needs to learn how to do something on their own.



Those are what I need to prayerfully consider when I am faced with such situations.



As to being used, if the decision to help a person was borne of out prayer, then regardless of the outcome, it's really a misnomer that someone is "being used" . . . unless that is to mean "being used of Our Lord."

If a decision to help someone wasn't the end result of prayer but rather something done through one's own will, then "being used" can certainly become a bit messy. But that's not the "helpee's" fault, that really is because of the "helper's" own doing.



Regarding this topic, I have to simultaneously remember two things:

(1)
As a Christian, I should always be willing to do whatever it is Our Lord is wanting me to do at any given moment. If it is His Will for me to do something, then He will equip me with everything I need to do that particular task.

(2)
I am not the only Christian on earth, and sometimes what I am supposed to do is absolutely nothing.
Perhaps, Our Lord already has someone else in mind to lend help to an individual. Perhaps not; maybe He has an entirely different plan for the individual's situation. In such instances, my "help" would only mess things up.

In both situationsm what is required of me is my obedience to Our Lord; obedience to either do something or obedience to not do something.



URForgiven -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 9:40:58 AM)

There are those who will use our God given kindness and compassion against us, and I do not believe that it is in ours or their best interest to allow that kind of (ab)use.

I think there is a difference between use and abuse. Abuse is misuse, it is an improper use. We are privileged to be used by God. But God does not abuse us. Nor will He lead us into abusive situations. He leads us where He can use us, not abuse us.

Yes, we turn the other cheek. Yes, if they ask for our coat, we give them our pants also [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]. Okay, maybe not our pants.
But, we do not glorify God by being a fool. IMHO.

Peace



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 9:41:50 AM)

I would also like to add to my previous post that sometimes a decision to help someone (or not) is really left up to the individual contemplating giving such help and isn't as clear-cut as "Yes" or "No" saith Our Lord.

In those cases, it is still always wise to check our spirit and to seek Our Lord's Wisdom and Guidance.

Also, prayer covers everything. If, after everything is said and done, a situation didn't have good results, then simply pray. Pray blessings into the person's life, pray protection from bitterness in your own heart, pray to know what lesson should have been learned, and then go on with your life and apply the new-found wisdom the next time a similar situation arises.


[sm=redhairsmile.gif]



Liveloved -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 12:10:47 PM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
Since you are asking, I will tell you what feeling used is about---it is about the self life, loving self and wanting to protect one's self. It is a product of our sin nature and it's the place we operate from when we're living out of the flesh.

quote: Abiyah
I appreciate your answer, but because I am trying to figure all this out -- to find if i am being selfish or if I am being kind -- I want to ask you more.

I believe that in order to be fully kind to someone, one ought to help them not to stagnate but to grow. However, if I want to have some power over someone, or to raise myself to some personal level of my own idea of holiness or religiosity, I could let them use me so that I will feel better about me. So in your scenario of the young mother for whom you babysit, I would not do that, because I am teaching her to be a user, to be ungrateful, to be subsistent, and to not grow up and take responsibility. Now, I don't know if this is the right attitude or not, but this is the way I see it. That is why I am asking.

I believe that Messiah's main purpose in His life was to die for His people, and He did it. He has planted each of us, as individuals, on this planet to do something, but while it does happen, it is rarely to die for someone but to live in such a way as to be a positive influence. Would I be a positive influence if I let people walk all over me? Sometimes yes, and often no. But I am asking, because I want to be sure this is correct.


Oh, my. I do understand this dilemna. And we (speaking as those who by nature love themselves more than others) really struggle in this area. Giving up self, including all the 'what about me' thoughts, is a task only our wonderful Lord could (and does) accomplish. But thanks for the continued question and dialogue.

Whether I am being kind or selfish comes from MY heart (if we're talking about my example. . .). I had determined that I wanted to give to my friend in this way. I know the struggle of being a young mom, stuck at home, with a baby's demands and the stress that can put on a couple's relationship, so I chose to give to my friend in this way.

Was I seeking to hold some kind of power over her by doing this? I certainly don't think so. Was I trying to raise my level of holiness or religiosity? Again I would say no---although I know none of my motives are pure. My desire was to help this young woman be a better mom and wife by freeing her on occasion, giving her time away from the demands of home and baby, to refresh herself and gain new energy and perspective.

And it is ALL about my choice in this situation. . . just as it is in your situations. I had chosen to give. Therefore I cannot be used.

So in your situations you must decide what is the right thing to do, what you are willing to give, how you perceive the need and then your willingness to meet that need. And then when you act in accordance with what you are willing to give, you are not being used. Instead you are being Christlike and laying down your life. . . therefore no one can take it from you. Make sense?

Now, back to my friend. Was I encouraging selfishness? I don't think so. She was a young and quite selfish person. . . And I'm an older and still selfish person. But the Lord gave and gives freely to me, all the time. It is His kindness that ultimately leads to repentance (Romans 2:4). And I am trusting Him to lead her to give her 'self' and selfish ways up, just as He has been faithfully freeing me from my 'self' over the years.

Yes, this requires great love. I am ever so thankful for His love in me. I couldn't live this out. Only He could.

This woman is a believer. And my experience with talking to believers about what we see in their lives (such as talking to her about her attitude) almost always results in the end of a relationship. So I usually (not always) let God do the talking and convicting.

Relationships are where the rubber meets the road in the Christlife. Certainly they are not easy but they are essential. Bless ya!

Edited to add two scriptures that I find important in this context:
John 15:12-13 This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
Romans 12:21 . . . overcome evil with good.



manda59 -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 12:31:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved
For example, I had a younger friend who was newly married and she and her husband started their family. I offered to babysit for them.

Just curious, did you originally just offer or did they ask you?



Liveloved -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 12:41:13 PM)

quote:

Just curious, did you originally just offer or did they ask you?


I offered. I chose to give to her (them) in this way.

I will add that when we lived for two years in another state, my husband and I lived in an apartment complex. An unbelieving neighbor had a baby (in a second marriage) and I did the same for her. Every day I kept her baby for 2-4 hours so that she could get out.

And one day she said to me, "Who are you? Why do you do this for me?"

She learned about Jesus that day because it really is all about Him.

(Anyway, thanks for asking mandy.)



manda59 -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 1:14:25 PM)

Liveloved, I think it is different when we offer, by the prompting of the Spirit, as opposed to just saying yes to everyone who asks something of us, or feeling like we should offer something to everyone who crosses our path.



Liveloved -> RE: Users (10/4/2008 2:24:04 PM)

quote:

Liveloved, I think it is different when we offer, by the prompting of the Spirit, as opposed to just saying yes to everyone who asks something of us, or feeling like we should offer something to everyone who crosses our path.


And I totally agree. That is why I tried to emphasize that we have to determine what is right. When I have CHOSEN to lay down my life for a friend, she cannot use me. I have freely given to her.

And my 'feeling used' at times needed to be corrected by the Holy Spirit and confession of the sin and stopping it was the necessary course of repentant action, KWIM? It isn't easy. My flesh can scream "this is sooooo wrong. . . she is sooooooooo selfish". But the Spirit says "lay down your life", "freely give", "overcome evil with good", and sometimes 'get over your'self', LL'. That is what dying to self looks like and how it frequently plays out in my life.

Any more questions please don't hesitate to ask.[:)] LL



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Users (10/5/2008 12:24:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manda59
There's a difference in sacrificially serving someone, and letting them use you.

Sacrificially serving someone has value if it is showing them Christ's love and doing them good (ie drawing them closer to Him), and you see evidence of grace in them and a movement towards taking responsibility for themselves.

This is what frightens me, because I have given abusively before -- given when the giving hurt more than it helped, given when the giving made someone harmfully dependent. I don't want to go there again, and it is a concern regarding these two situations.
_____________________________

WhiteRose, I must admit that I pray about the giving when I feel positive about it, but when I feel used, I only feel angry and confused. No, I don't pray for those situations until after it is all over. I can't explain that; I just realized it when you asked. Perhaps this is a wake-up call.
_____________________________

URForgiven, you're cute. And yes, maybe I need to understand better where use ends and abuse begins.
_____________________________

LiveLoved, I can see where you are coming from. At this time of my life, I don't usually have to deal with situations like the one you describe. Perhaps G-d doesn't trust me with such -- who knows. But it is very difficult for me to give without an eye to the future for the person to whom I give. Maybe I am trying to take too much responsibility for what they do with the gift.



Liveloved -> RE: Users (10/5/2008 10:07:37 PM)

quote:

LiveLoved, I can see where you are coming from. At this time of my life, I don't usually have to deal with situations like the one you describe. Perhaps G-d doesn't trust me with such -- who knows. But it is very difficult for me to give without an eye to the future for the person to whom I give. Maybe I am trying to take too much responsibility for what they do with the gift.


Believe me, what you have said is so true for me as well. And I believe you've hit the nail on the head (highlighted). This is why God demands I give in these ways. It cuts against my desire, my need to control, or to think I am responsible for the world (which is my tendency). Instead He asks me to give, to lay down my life by giving up what I think is best even in regard to this person, and just give and give and sometimes give some more.

I've been a very slow learner. But He knows best. And He knows what each one of us needs. That's why I can't tell you what is 'right' for you. I can only share what He has shown me what He wants from me in these situations.

But the fact that you are 'struggling' in these areas tells me that you have not heard from Him. So keep your ears open, listen and He will show you His way for you. Bless ya!



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Users (10/5/2008 10:38:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

WhiteRose, I must admit that I pray about the giving when I feel positive about it, but when I feel used, I only feel angry and confused. No, I don't pray for those situations until after it is all over. I can't explain that; I just realized it when you asked. Perhaps this is a wake-up call.
I've turned people down before because I felt Our Lord telling me to do so.

Sometimes I get to later learn the whys of everything (i.e., "Why not me to help?).
But not always; and not even most of the time.

For me, I've come to look at it as another area of Faith . . . Our Lord was either wanting to protect me, grow the other person in some way, or both.

The times that I have disobeyed and done what I've wanted, the results usually were not good for me, for the other person, or for both.




As a recent example . . . someone I know wants a few things that I have in my possession. I have no problem with giving the things to him. However, we live over 1,000 miles apart from each other, and what he wants involves some very high shipping charges (of which, we've both agreed that he should pay).

However, he hasn't been able to find the time to go to the package center to pre-pay the charges on credit card.

I was going to ship them COD, but I learned that I would still have to pay for the items first, then after UPS receives the COD payment from him, they will refund my money to me. I didn't have a peace about doing that, and told him that he'd really have to pre-pay the charges on his credit card before I would ship the items.

He called me last week and asked me if I would ship the items, have the charges put on my UPS account and then he would pay me later. I didn't have a peace about doing that neither, so I simply said that I would not be able to do that neither.

The ball is basically in his court now. If he wants the items, he's welcomed to them; but he's going to have to pre-pay for the shipping via his credit card. In addition, because I am moving soon, I gave him a time deadline of when he would need to pre-pay for the items.

He can either choose to accept or decline the parameters.

But it hasn't bothered me one bit about creating the parameters; I do not feel guilty because of it.

In fact, again, I feel quite a Peace about it. I truly feel that I am handling this in the way Our Lord wants me to.

Now . . . given that I believe Our Lord has guided me in this specific direction, had I gone ahead and said, "Sure; you can pay me later," I probably would feel quite a bit of unrest about the whole situation. Not because of the money per se, but because of handling the situation in the complete opposite way of what I feel Our Lord is leading me to do.



WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: Users (10/5/2008 10:43:19 PM)

. . . and it's that unrest that would lead me to perhaps feeling used.

. . . and it's feeling used that would lead me to be angry, bitter and/or resentful toward this person.

. . . and on and on and on; and suddenly I'm caught in a circle that I didn't want to be in and that I can't get out of; and the circle expands like ripples in a pond, etc.



deliveredarling -> RE: Users (10/6/2008 7:30:32 AM)

Paraphrasing here: "If they want to eat let them work".

This is advocating personal responsibility and accountability. This defines the line between use and abuse. If a person is capable of doing a required task and yet asks another because they don't want to or because it may be inconvenient-that is abuse.

If a person truly can't accomplish a certain task, that is a need.

How does one know if they are being taken advantage of?

Look at the patterns of behavior from the person requesting your assistance. Strings with attachments are a dead give away.

If you want to give, give expecting nothng in return. This goes both ways, for the requester and the requestee.

If we give to the point that we are allowing another to become dependent, we are not helping that person. That is not laying down our life for another, that is in essence giving them a death sentence. That is allowing them to continue in their blindness and refusal to see the light. We would then be responsible for knowingly allowing them to continue in darkness.

Christ didn't ask us to lay down our lives for another. He stated that so that we would know that is what HIS LOVE for us accomplished.

From what you have written here, it doesn't sound selfish or like the choices were made with selfish intent.
It sounds to me like the enemy would like to derail your thinking here into a guilt complex so that you are distracted from Christ. JMHO, though.

If a choice advocates anything that is not about accountability and responsibility, then it probably has to do more with how we feel about ourselves rather than living a life that reflects godly character.JanotherHO.

Hope that has helped at least a little[:)]



raivyne -> RE: Users (10/6/2008 11:39:57 AM)

My thoughts Covaan are this:

When you can help, do.

When you aren't able to, don't.

I understand not wanting to be used, been there - done that. However, when you don't do something for others that you are able to do simply because of their motives (real or imagined)... you've allowed them to change you into a less giving person. I'm not saying become a doormat, but if the only reason you aren't helping is because you're afraid of their motives - that's not good. When you're busy and can't help just say so, if they don't like it that's their issue - not yours.

I guess what I'm really getting at here is we should help others when we can and if they begin to take advantage of our good nature let God be the one who deals with them. Also, if you have a grievence with one of your neighbors because of the way you feel you're being treated go to your neighbor about it. Maybe they don't realize what they are doing, maybe they do... Also, pray about this (of course).



Oldwing -> RE: Users (10/6/2008 11:40:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

I think they do have the magical blinders that seek for caregivers. I think that these can actually grow up and become self-sufficient, but I am not sure, and with them being so new, I haven't been real "clear" with them yet.


This past Saturday I was usher at a funeral. After the services I was mingling and speaking with a lot of people, praying for them and asking them to Sunday services. I found myself in conversation with a woman who had obvious paranoid problems and as she poured out her theories of persecution to my wife and I we couldn't help but think that this was not only a person in need, but one who seeks a caregiver and hangs on for dear life. We told her that she should place her troubles in God's hands and after some time took a firmer tone and excused ourselves to speak with others there. We thought perhaps she was offended by our method of taking our leave, but the following morning she came to church and said to us right away, "I'm better today". Thank God she has recognition that her difficulties are not all 'real', but some imagined.

Why this long tale? Because I think that those who seek out and cling to caregivers have some deficiency in their own thought patterns that prevents them from becoming self-sufficient, yet with the guidance of the Lord, prayer and some time they can become 'more' within themselves and more able to receive Christ who is the ultimate caregiver.

I pray this woman comes back to church and finds better balance - that is my point, that balance is hard for some people to find and it can take a firm hand to help them back to a more normal life.

I guess I ramble some but I hope you can find some worth in my thoughts.



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