RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every abortion happening, or so they say
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 11:29:33 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
You know you can say that now, but unless you're actually in the situation I don't think you or anyone can truly say how they would re-act. It's also easy for you to say since your not the one who would be doing the dying.
campbe33: if you can't make the theoretical decision first while you are distanced from the actual scenario, then you be utterly lost when crunch time arrives. Training for a biblical truth such as abortion being murderously wrong is no different than a soldier drilling over and over again against his teammates for the time he faces actual combat, or a firefighter fighting controlled fires to prepare for the real blaze, or a SWAT member running breaching drills for the time there is a real hostage needing rescued.
When you are already decided on something beforehand, it becomes much easier to act on that decision when needed. My wife and I know that abortion is ALWAYS WRONG and if we were ever faced with a situation where we had to abort or lose her, she is already good with the right decision.
Having been in the military and in situations where people have drilled over and over, I can say without a doubt not all people re-act the same. I have seen people who know the drill inside out, freak when under pressure. I am anti-abortion, pro-choice. I hear a lot about stopping abortion and saving innocent lives, but I nothing or very little about helping those children who are alive here and now living in depraved conditions, starving and abused. How many of these unwanted children have you adopted. How many children do you sponsor? There's a world of children out there who are alive and breathing now!!!
If your anti-abortion I would expect you wouldn't support stem cell research or use any of the cures that come from it. Should you or anyone in your family develop a serious illness.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 11:41:46 PM
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LabGuy
Posts: 3306
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: NW Pennsylvania
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I am anti-abortion, pro-choice.
How can one be against murder but believe people should feel free to commit it if they want?
That's an honest question because that position has never made any logical or moral sense to me.
-Robb
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 11:59:41 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
I'm totally with you on that one. The hate that is spewed here is absolutely astounding.
Yes, writing the truth is really "hateful" 
Either what P31W wrote was true or it wasn't. She was actually very respectful, but didn't avoid truth. She actually wrote almost exactly what Scripture teaches concerning either being a Christian or not. If you can walk away, you aren't. Nothing "hateful" about that.
It's a general observation that I've seen here and not directed solely at P31W specifically. It's okay to speak the truth. However, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of love to go along with it. The majority of the posters on this forum seem bound and determined to condemn folks and judge. Given how the gospel is presented, it's really no wonder unbelievers are turned off or believers want nothing to do with other Christians.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 12:16:10 AM
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ljmac
Posts: 1320
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I am anti-abortion, pro-choice.
How can one be against murder but believe people should feel free to commit it if they want?
That's an honest question because that position has never made any logical or moral sense to me.
-Robb
Pro-abortionists live in a world of deceit, delusion and denial. They can't speak in plain language because it would sound something like this, "I want it legal to rip the limbs off a baby, crush her skull and disembowel her."
< Message edited by ljmac -- 10/17/2008 1:05:34 AM >
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 12:18:32 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
If I believe in Pro-Choice, I should be kicked out of my Church?
That would be up to your church...
quote:
You know you can say that now, but unless you're actually in the situation I don't think you or anyone can truly say how they would re-act. It's also easy for you to say since your not the one who would be doing the dying.
I went into a burning building for someone's kid I didn't know...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 12:47:55 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
You know you can say that now, but unless you're actually in the situation I don't think you or anyone can truly say how they would re-act. It's also easy for you to say since your not the one who would be doing the dying.
campbe33: if you can't make the theoretical decision first while you are distanced from the actual scenario, then you be utterly lost when crunch time arrives. Training for a biblical truth such as abortion being murderously wrong is no different than a soldier drilling over and over again against his teammates for the time he faces actual combat, or a firefighter fighting controlled fires to prepare for the real blaze, or a SWAT member running breaching drills for the time there is a real hostage needing rescued.
When you are already decided on something beforehand, it becomes much easier to act on that decision when needed. My wife and I know that abortion is ALWAYS WRONG and if we were ever faced with a situation where we had to abort or lose her, she is already good with the right decision.
Having been in the military and in situations where people have drilled over and over, I can say without a doubt not all people re-act the same. I have seen people who know the drill inside out, freak when under pressure. I am anti-abortion, pro-choice. I hear a lot about stopping abortion and saving innocent lives, but I nothing or very little about helping those children who are alive here and now living in depraved conditions, starving and abused. How many of these unwanted children have you adopted. How many children do you sponsor? There's a world of children out there who are alive and breathing now!!!
If your anti-abortion I would expect you wouldn't support stem cell research or use any of the cures that come from it. Should you or anyone in your family develop a serious illness.
A fair response, campbe33. I appreciate the even tone in your response and will try to answer in the same manner.
First, regarding training: When I was going through officer training to work for the county Sheriff, part of that training was a fighting/defense discipline called PPCT (Pressure Point Control Tactics, developed by Bruce Siddle, CEO of Warrior Science Group, Chairman and Chief Creative Officer of Detonics, the former CEO of Homeland Security Corporation, Inc. and the founder of PPCT Management Systems, Inc. (the largest research-based use-of-force training organization inside the United States)).
One of the foundations of PPCT is that the less options you have to consider in a moment of stress, the faster you can react. For example, if an opponent charges with you and you have to decide between which of five different strikes you are going to use, your reaction time will be slow. However, if you have one tactic that you have practiced repeatedly, the science shows that you will have a much faster reaction time.
This is what I was getting at. Sure, as you mentioned, different people react differently, but my point still stands: when you are prepared for something and have practiced it, it will be much easier to do it when under stress. Another example is doing fire drills with children at school and home. Why do we do this? So when a fire breaks out, the kiddos are used to doing what they need to.
This is the same for biblical principles: the more you practice them, the easier they are to utilize when the time comes.
For the record, I love stem-cell research, but I reject embryonic stem-cell research. And since you asked, my wife and I support children through World Vision and give regularly to our church, which has both local outreach as well as outreach into Mexico and Africa. We are also considering adopting our third child. I don't think you can tie abortion and poverty/orphans together fairly. The church does a TON for orphans and widows, as we should. Most of us are SCREAMING: don't kill your babies, give them to us!
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:03:23 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
It's a general observation that I've seen here and not directed solely at P31W specifically. It's okay to speak the truth. However, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of love to go along with it. The majority of the posters on this forum seem bound and determined to condemn folks and judge. Given how the gospel is presented, it's really no wonder unbelievers are turned off or believers want nothing to do with other Christians.
The majority of posters on this thread don't think the systematic killing of millions of unborn babies is something you simply shrug off like like someone said a bad word - apparently you don't agree.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 7:44:02 AM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
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quote:
The majority of posters on this thread don't think the systematic killing of millions of unborn babies is something you simply shrug off like like someone said a bad word - apparently you don't agree.
This is certainly true. It is also true that millions of people do simply shrug this issue off.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 8:58:55 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Who exactly gave you the right to question someone's salvation?
Jesus commanded his followers to go and make disciples, teaching them to observe all the He had commanded us baptising them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Their post touched me and I was reaching out to them.
Not saying what I did would be an act of uncaring and disobedience to the Holy Spirit that was compelling me to witness to them.
If I didn't care I would have stayed silent.
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/17/2008 10:36:09 AM >
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 9:03:59 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
This is certainly true. It is also true that millions of people do simply shrug this issue off.
Well of course they do. There are millions of people who shrug off God too. I don't expect any more from them. Why should I? They don't understand what nature cries out to them and their heart knows to be true about God. That is why they are "without excuse" for not worshipping and obeying God.
Heck God told us about about those people in the first chapter of Romans
18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. (me talking here - notice they are "pro active" in their desire to deny what is self evident)
19 For the truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts.
20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature.
So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.
21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. The result was that their minds became dark and confused. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became utter fools instead. 23 And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people, or birds and animals and snakes.
24 So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. 25 Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen.
26 That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. 27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. 28 When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. 29 Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. 30 They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. 31 They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving.
32 They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too.
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/17/2008 9:13:34 AM >
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 9:29:21 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Writerchick
quote:
Who exactly gave you the right to question someone's salvation?
usually its the peopel who say this very line are the ones who DO need to know salvation.
if someone told me 'Are you a christian? I am questioning if your saved or not'.. i would rejoice and say 'yes praise be to God for having mercy on me and saving me! thank you brother or sister for letting me know in case I needed to know!"
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 9:44:07 AM
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Sophie11
Posts: 931
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: Writerchick
quote:
Who exactly gave you the right to question someone's salvation?
usually its the peopel who say this very line are the ones who DO need to know salvation.
if someone told me 'Are you a christian? I am questioning if your saved or not'.. i would rejoice and say 'yes praise be to God for having mercy on me and saving me! thank you brother or sister for letting me know in case I needed to know!"
I don't mean to jump into this uninvited but after only reading the OP and this last page I've already stumbled upon a bit of hypocrisy going on.
IMA_CHRISTIAN, in one post you condemn those who you feel are "judging" others constantly, and then you put out this post that I have quoted above? I'm just wondering if you've noticed how judgemental that sounds, and thought I'd point it out.
edit: maybe I had you confused with another poster? Sorry if I did, I will read more...
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 9:48:42 AM
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P31W
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Hey Writerchick,
There are people on this forum who are lost. Some openly admit that they don't trust or obey Jesus. (I know of two active on this thread who have rejected God) I see you are new to the forum I welcome you. I also see that you love the book of Proverbs as do I. My name P31W stands for the Proverbs 31 woman. She is an inspiration to me and I strive to be like her because she is a savey business woman, buys up real estate with her own earnings, help to build up her husband, family, home and those in her sphere of influence, she is proactive and reaches out her own hands to help the poor and needy, she is smart with money, she is the hardest worker around, she does not waste time and she fears the Lord - the motivation of all that she is doing. She is a tough cookie unlike how many people view Christian women as airheads who sit at home barefoot and ignorant - unable to do anything of value.
Here is a verse that speaks to me very loudly concerning abortion and how I am to be "pro active" in these types of situations.
Proverbs 24:11-12
11 Rescue those who are unjustly sentenced to death; don't stand back and let them die. Don't try to avoid responsibility by saying you didn't know about it. For God knows all hearts, and he sees you. He keeps watch over your soul, and he knows you knew! And he will judge all people according to what they have done.
Proverbs is a book about how to live our day to day life in God's will. It's about book about being pro active.
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/17/2008 10:11:05 AM >
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 10:01:14 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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campbe33,
Sorry to have missed your post. I am trying to witness to someone that had not indicated to us that they are a believer. That person said they have left the Chruch, left Christanity (another thread) and have left religion.
< Message edited by P31W -- 10/17/2008 10:09:14 AM >
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 12:18:45 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
This is certainly true. It is also true that millions of people do simply shrug this issue off.
Sure, millions of people shrugged of slavery, racial and sexual discrimination, and eugenics. History is replete with the apathetic and selfish, but we don't really remember these people very fondly, if at all.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 12:44:58 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: Writerchick
quote:
Who exactly gave you the right to question someone's salvation?
usually its the peopel who say this very line are the ones who DO need to know salvation.
if someone told me 'Are you a christian? I am questioning if your saved or not'.. i would rejoice and say 'yes praise be to God for having mercy on me and saving me! thank you brother or sister for letting me know in case I needed to know!"
I don't mean to jump into this uninvited but after only reading the OP and this last page I've already stumbled upon a bit of hypocrisy going on.
IMA_CHRISTIAN, in one post you condemn those who you feel are "judging" others constantly, and then you put out this post that I have quoted above? I'm just wondering if you've noticed how judgemental that sounds, and thought I'd point it out.
edit: maybe I had you confused with another poster? Sorry if I did, I will read more...
hi - you might have me mistaken for Writerchick who said the original question - how dare you question my salvation?
then i said usually it is unsaved people who need to hear that (by their becoming defensive instead of grateful to God :) and then i said I would thank the Lord for saving me kinda answer.
if i said something that was judgmental, please let me know, as I may have said something not in love.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:08:52 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Pretty much, a vote for Obama is a vote for death.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:10:30 PM
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adelphi_sky
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pretty much, a vote for Obama is a vote for death.
If I was an undecided voter could you guarantee me that by voting for McCain, all abortions would be outlawed before his term was up?
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:12:13 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
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No, but I can guarantee that voting Obama the death rate will increase. It is his agenda, if you have not noticed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pretty much, a vote for Obama is a vote for death.
If I was an undecided voter could you guarantee me that by voting for McCain, all abortions would be outlawed before his term was up?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:14:52 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, but I can gauantee that voting Obama the death rate will increase. It is his agenda, if you have not noticed
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pretty much, a vote for Obama is a vote for death.
If I was an undecided voter could you guarantee me that by voting for McCain, all abortions would be outlawed before his term was up?
Do you really think this is going to happen? dont they have other pressing issues to work on too? I dont think obma is going to get in his big chair on Nov 5th and sign the bill. yes he said that would be a priority, but i dont see it happening right then and there.. Also, doens't the Supreme Court have some say so on the matter? the House,, the Senate? other folks?
I truly belive even if obama wins, people will still be able to do what they are doing now to STOP IT. Actually if you bleive the bible, things like this can happen, AND this would be even BETTER for the glory of God. to stop abortion while the pro-choice president is in office.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:15:43 PM
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adelphi_sky
Posts: 403
Joined: 10/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, but I can gauantee that voting Obama the death rate will increase. It is his agenda, if you have not noticed
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pretty much, a vote for Obama is a vote for death.
If I was an undecided voter could you guarantee me that by voting for McCain, all abortions would be outlawed before his term was up?
Actually I hadn't noticed. I'm not sure how you can actually encourage abortions. For one thing, people would have to abandon their morals and get pregnant just for the heck of it. JUST so they could have an emotionally and financially costly procedure done. Yeah. That's his agenda.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:17:17 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
If I was an undecided voter could you guarantee me that by voting for McCain, all abortions would be outlawed before his term was up?
Can you guarantee me that by voting for Obama in ten years we will no longer import foreign oil?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:18:48 PM
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lightshineon
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IMA Christain, I believe you are a Christian. You are kind also as is adelphi. I just do not see sin is just ok, and to support it. It is kind of like supporting online porn, saying well you know...... It could give glory to God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
No, but I can gauantee that voting Obama the death rate will increase. It is his agenda, if you have not noticed
quote:
ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Pretty much, a vote for Obama is a vote for death.
If I was an undecided voter could you guarantee me that by voting for McCain, all abortions would be outlawed before his term was up?
Do you really think this is going to happen? dont they have other pressing issues to work on too? I dont think obma is going to get in his big chair on Nov 5th and sign the bill. yes he said that would be a priority, but i dont see it happening right then and there.. Also, doens't the Supreme Court have some say so on the matter? the House,, the Senate? other folks?
I truly belive even if obama wins, people will still be able to do what they are doing now to STOP IT. Actually if you bleive the bible, things like this can happen, AND this would be even BETTER for the glory of God. to stop abortion while the pro-choice president is in office.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/17/2008 1:24:14 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/3/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Hey Writerchick,
There are people on this forum who are lost. Some openly admit that they don't trust or obey Jesus. (I know of two active on this thread who have rejected God) I see you are new to the forum I welcome you. I also see that you love the book of Proverbs as do I. My name P31W stands for the Proverbs 31 woman. She is an inspiration to me and I strive to be like her because she is a savey business woman, buys up real estate with her own earnings, help to build up her husband, family, home and those in her sphere of influence, she is proactive and reaches out her own hands to help the poor and needy, she is smart with money, she is the hardest worker around, she does not waste time and she fears the Lord - the motivation of all that she is doing. She is a tough cookie unlike how many people view Christian women as airheads who sit at home barefoot and ignorant - unable to do anything of value.
Here is a verse that speaks to me very loudly concerning abortion and how I am to be "pro active" in these types of situations.
Proverbs 24:11-12
11 Rescue those who are unjustly sentenced to death; don't stand back and let them die. Don't try to avoid responsibility by saying you didn't know about it. For God knows all hearts, and he sees you. He keeps watch over your soul, and he knows you knew! And he will judge all people according to what they have done.
Proverbs is a book about how to live our day to day life in God's will. It's about book about being pro active.
I absolutely agree with you that there are people on this forum who are lost. My point is Christians are not going to win them over by being as mean as I've seen them be on this board. Perhaps people just don't realize how they come across or maybe they just don't care.
For instance, I'm not sure why you felt the need to explain who the Proverbs 31 woman is to me in this post. It comes across as condescending. But maybe it's just a pet peeve of mine for people to assume I am a new Christian without bothering to ask.
On to your scripture. It is commendable that you have one to back up your feelings on abortion. However, that's not what that scripture says to me. The very word, "sentenced" implies someone who has gone through a trial and been found guilty. God has not given me a revelation that this refers to an unborn child. That said, it doesn't take anything away from you if that is the revelation God has laid on your heart.
Something else that strikes me about the verse you quoted is the word "those." If this word refers to the unborn, then it could just as easily refer to a pregnant woman. Why isn't she worthy of being rescued from death?
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