RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every abortion happening, or so they say
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:09:19 PM
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ekserekseez
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quote:
Abortion concerns the immediate and decisive loss of human life, and is really core to all human rights
Well, I suppose this is true for people who agree with your anti-abortion stance. Apparently a lot of people either 1) don't think that abortion is the "immediate and decisive loss of human life;" or 2) don't think that the "immediate and decisive loss of human life" is that big a deal.
Just going by the numbers there. A religious guy told me that he read a bunch of statistics saying that the percentage of abortions among members of conservative "pro-life" churches is the same or higher than among the general public. I don't know of that's actually true, but it's interesting if it is.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:12:10 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Well, I suppose this is true for people who agree with your anti-abortion stance.
No, it's either true, or not true.
If unborn children are humans, it's true, if they aren't it's not true, regardless of anyone's stance. The rest is just puffery.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:14:04 PM
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ekserekseez
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quote:
If unborn children are humans, it's true, if they aren't it's not true, regardless of anyone's stance. The rest is just puffery.
Well, then it's truth that's not a big deal to the millions of people who have abortions each year. Just pointing out the numbers.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:15:38 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
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quote:
Well, then it's truth that's not a big deal to the millions of people who have abortions each year. Just pointing out the numbers.
If it's true, what do the numbers matter? I thought you weren't a relativist?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:28:30 PM
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ekserekseez
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quote:
If it's true, what do the numbers matter? I thought you weren't a relativist?
I never said I wasn't a relativist, I said that I wasn't when it came to voting for socialists.
My point is, lots of people apparently don't think abortion is that big a deal. As I've said many times before, I don't care if people are pro-choice or anti-abortion. I would never use that as a factor to determine whom I'd vote for.
So back to the topic of this thread: if people are dumb enough to vote for Obama, the fact that he's pro-abortion is probably not a big deal to them. So they just don't care if they're considered "responsible" for all abortions. There are plenty of reasons not to vote for the junior Senator from Illinois besides his abortion stance. And there are plenty of reasons, for me, not to vote for McCain, either, despite his abortion stance.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:30:13 PM
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Longfingers1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
quote:
if people are dumb enough to vote for Obama...
Wow... really and those who vote for McCain/Palin are the smartest people in the world? ...right... 
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:32:13 PM
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ekserekseez
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quote:
Wow... really and those who vote for McCain/Palin are the smartest people in the world? ...right.
You have apparently never read one of my posts on the topic, have you? Let me explain it again:
OBAMA/BIDEN = SOCIALISM (fast track)
McCAIN/PALIN = SOCIALISM (slow boat)
I'm voting for Barr because he is neither a socialist like Obama, Biden, or McCain, or an idiot, like Palin.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 6:42:25 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I never said I wasn't a relativist, I said that I wasn't when it came to voting for socialists.
Oh, so your philosophy changes depending on the issue? Mine doesn't.
quote:
My point is, lots of people apparently don't think abortion is that big a deal. As I've said many times before, I don't care if people are pro-choice or anti-abortion. I would never use that as a factor to determine whom I'd vote for.
Obviously, if you don't think unborn children are humans, then it wouldn't matter to you; if you do think they are humans and you are indifferent to their untimely deaths, then that would be an indication of moral bankruptcy - but what 'lots of people think' is irrelevant.
quote:
So back to the topic of this thread: if people are dumb enough to vote for Obama, the fact that he's pro-abortion is probably not a big deal to them. So they just don't care if they're considered "responsible" for all abortions. There are plenty of reasons not to vote for the junior Senator from Illinois besides his abortion stance. And there are plenty of reasons, for me, not to vote for McCain, either, despite his abortion stance.
Well I agree that people inclined to vote for Obama probably don't care about the unborn, and I agree there are other very good reasons to vote against him (obviously), but one cannot deny that voting for a pro-abortion President is in effect support for the increased acceptance and incidence of abortion.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 7:24:03 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
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Why is it that no one is talking about McCain's statement that he would appoint pro choice judges to the Supreme Court if they were qualified? Or does it diffuse the anti-Obama movement too much?
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 7:25:41 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
This debate is really what pushed me out of the church. American churches for the most part are so political and if you dont aggree with their politics you really have a hard time fitting in...so i gave up on the whole religion and politics thing and just live my life.
Either you are the Church or you are not. If you don't have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ than you were never part of the Church to begin with. You simply visited some of our services. That is probably the core reason you never felt that you "fit in".
My brother felt like you did until one day he realize he was not saved. After he was saved then he realized that he "fit right in" with the rest of us.
You may have given up on religion but please don't give up on Jesus Christ. God promises that if you want a relationship with Him it's free for the asking.
Who exactly gave you the right to question someone's salvation?
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 7:26:55 PM
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Longfingers1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Why is it that no one is talking about McCain's statement that he would appoint pro choice judges to the Supreme Court if they were qualified? Or does it diffuse the anti-Obama movement too much?
I was waiting for someone to bring that up... but look where I am, most here wouldn't bring up a story that's based on fact about their own but are very quick to bring up un-founded rumors and lies about another candidate... I promise it's very weird from people who are supposed to be open-minded and loving Christians.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 7:29:19 PM
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writerchick
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I'm totally with you on that one. The hate that is spewed here is absolutely astounding.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 7:33:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So, is that to say if you disagree with the church on the issue of abortion, then you were really never part of the church or never really had a personal relationship with Christ. Personally, I am pro-choice.
If the church has any structure and upholds the law they should remove a person who doesn't repent as spelled out in 1 Corinthians 5.
quote:
What are your thoughts on a 9yr old girl who is raped and becomes pregnant? She's terrified and emotionally damaged. Her small body isn't really developed enough to carry a baby. She truly is a kid having a baby. Once she has the baby she has no say in deciding what happens to the baby. Do you really think all of that should be laid on this emotionally under-developed and damaged child? She should be playing with dolls, not having babies.
So the answer is to use the fact she's nine years old to murder the child because the father of the child raped her? Adding murder(even if she isn't responsible) to the equation is healthy? There is no biblical justification for doing so...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 7:35:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Why is it that no one is talking about McCain's statement that he would appoint pro choice judges to the Supreme Court if they were qualified? Or does it diffuse the anti-Obama movement too much?
Truthfully Obama stance on abortion is so strong it makes McCain seem more pro-life than he really is... Though being sorta pro-life life is much like sorta pregnant.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 8:59:36 PM
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His_4_Ever
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From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If the church has any structure and upholds the law they should remove a person who doesn't repent as spelled out in 1 Corinthians 5.
So, are you saying I need to repent or my church needs to kick me out?
quote:
So the answer is to use the fact she's nine years old to murder the child because the father of the child raped her? Adding murder(even if she isn't responsible) to the equation is healthy? There is no biblical justification for doing so...
O.k., well let's say your wife is pregnant and the doctor tells you if she carries the pregnancy to term, she will "definitely" die. Your wife doesn't want to die. You would let your wife die anyway?
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 9:46:29 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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quote:
Oh, so your philosophy changes depending on the issue? Mine doesn't.
Yes, it does. Most people's do.
quote:
one cannot deny that voting for a pro-abortion President is in effect support for the increased acceptance and incidence of abortion.
It might be, but it's not necessarily so. Clinton was pretty pro-abort, and abortions declined while he and Hillary Marx reigned.
Like I said, it's just not a big deal to me and to many people. I know it is to you, and that's your right. And if you manage to get Roe v Wade overturned, I'm not going to fight you on it. It just doesn't matter to me.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 9:50:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So, are you saying I need to repent or my church needs to kick me out?
If a person doesn't obey God's law the church shouldn't condone the behavior by allowing membership to continue...
quote:
O.k., well let's say your wife is pregnant and the doctor tells you if she carries the pregnancy to term, she will "definitely" die. Your wife doesn't want to die. You would let your wife die anyway?
My hope would be my wife would lay down her life for the child... As should any parent...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 10:02:54 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
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From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sovereignty
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So, are you saying I need to repent or my church needs to kick me out?
If a person doesn't obey God's law the church shouldn't condone the behavior by allowing membership to continue...
If I believe in Pro-Choice, I should be kicked out of my Church?
quote:
O.k., well let's say your wife is pregnant and the doctor tells you if she carries the pregnancy to term, she will "definitely" die. Your wife doesn't want to die. You would let your wife die anyway?
quote:
My hope would be my wife would lay down her life for the child... As should any parent...
You know you can say that now, but unless you're actually in the situation I don't think you or anyone can truly say how they would re-act. It's also easy for you to say since your not the one who would be doing the dying.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 10:30:57 PM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If the church has any structure and upholds the law they should remove a person who doesn't repent as spelled out in 1 Corinthians 5.
So, are you saying I need to repent or my church needs to kick me out?
Well, if you are in sin and the leadership has approached you in the biblically prescribed fashion but you refuse to repent because you are prideful.... then yes, you need to be put out.
quote:
O.k., well let's say your wife is pregnant and the doctor tells you if she carries the pregnancy to term, she will "definitely" die. Your wife doesn't want to die. You would let your wife die anyway?
Doctors have claimed this many times, and have many times been either flat wrong, or the problem was healed before the pregnancy went to term. Murdering a pre-born human IS NEVER ACCEPTABLE.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 10:44:32 PM
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ManimalX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
You know you can say that now, but unless you're actually in the situation I don't think you or anyone can truly say how they would re-act. It's also easy for you to say since your not the one who would be doing the dying.
campbe33: if you can't make the theoretical decision first while you are distanced from the actual scenario, then you be utterly lost when crunch time arrives. Training for a biblical truth such as abortion being murderously wrong is no different than a soldier drilling over and over again against his teammates for the time he faces actual combat, or a firefighter fighting controlled fires to prepare for the real blaze, or a SWAT member running breaching drills for the time there is a real hostage needing rescued. For a personal example, I own a shotgun for defending my home and family. I have practiced with the weapon and am comfortable operating it, and I have run through hundreds of scenarios in my mind so that if a bad guy ever does break down the front door, or window, or back door, or whatever, I will have no problem doing what needs to be done to make sure n harm comes to my household.
When you are already decided on something beforehand, it becomes much easier to act on that decision when needed. My wife and I know that abortion is ALWAYS WRONG and if we were ever faced with a situation where we had to abort or lose her, she is already good with the right decision.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 11:13:12 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
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From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
If the church has any structure and upholds the law they should remove a person who doesn't repent as spelled out in 1 Corinthians 5.
So, are you saying I need to repent or my church needs to kick me out?
Well, if you are in sin and the leadership has approached you in the barbarically prescribed fashion but you refuse to repent because you are prideful.... then yes, you need to be put out.
Well, no one's told me I'm wrong or committing a sin for thinking people should be allowed to make they're own decisions.
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RE: You Vote Obama - You are now responsible for every ... - 10/16/2008 11:19:56 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Like I said, it's just not a big deal to me and to many people. I know it is to you, and that's your right. And if you manage to get Roe v Wade overturned, I'm not going to fight you on it. It just doesn't matter to me.
Well, like I said, if it's true that the unborn aren't human, it shouldn't be a 'big deal' to anyone - if it it's true that the unborn are humans, it should be a big deal to everyone - and if someone believes they are humans and is indifferent to their deaths, then that would be moral reprobation.
So it really doesn't matter how you 'feel' about the issue, but what you believe about the unborn, and why.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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