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unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/29/2008 6:51:20 PM
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rafterman
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/19/2005
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So, I'm a youth leader.
Small church. Less than 50 people.
Youth group girl. Long time attender. Not a member. Not saved.
She just graduated and is pregnant. She is not married and is not getting married to the father. (good thing, he is bad news)
She wanted to have her baby shower at the church.
Some of the women said no way! They were so disapointed in her etc...
I explained to the women leaders in our church council meeting that this may be the last opportunity that we have to witness to her and love her and bring her closer to us and that they should take the lead have the baby shower at the church.
They did nothing. Didn't give a yes or a no. Until the girl gave up and found another church where she could have the shower.
The pastor is new. He has only been at the church for 6 months. I don't think he had a real problem with having the shower at the church, but I don't think expected people to just ignore this girl.
Any thoughts.
_____________________________
"my concern is not that God is on our side, but that we are on His" abe lincoln
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/29/2008 7:24:10 PM
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loveleee
Posts: 79
Joined: 6/6/2008
From: Southern Gal
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I just want to say THANK YOU!! Your are completely right to want reach out to her. It was a chance to witness to her and to show her the love that reflects from God onto us christians and to show her that you care. The same thing happened to a young man at our church. He became a father and his family attends our church. The grandparents didn't even want the church to talk about it in any way.
Another reason this is so close to my heart is because my 15 year old cousin is 8 1/2 months pregnant. I spend a lot of time with her and the way church going people treat her and look at her breaks my heart. It puts her into seclusion and is afraid of going to church with us.
I feel that premarital sex is on the rampage. We need to be examples and we need to teach our young people that premarital sex is against Gods word. The topic seems to be taboo and I don't understand why......
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/29/2008 7:24:36 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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I think your church missed the boat on what it means to be a church in this instance.
That shower would have been a wonderful way to show the love of Christ in a tangible way by supporting and helping that girl and her unborn baby.
I think your women's council has a lot to learn about ministry. They were disappointed in the pregnant girl?...well, frankly, I'm more disappointed in them.
Pathetic.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/29/2008 9:12:02 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2998
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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In the opening chapter of "What's so Amazing About Grace", Philip Yancey tells of him counseling a hooker charged with selling her daughter for sex to pay a bill. Why asked why she didn't ask a church for help, she responded that she thought a church wouldn't help.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 8:50:26 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
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From: Oklahoma
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We had a wild and wooly thread on this not too long ago.
I do not think the Church property should be used to honor an unrepent unsaved person of any sort.
If someone want to give the girl a shower they should do it at their home or some other place.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 8:59:22 AM
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Row1
Posts: 249
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rafterman - you are completely right. carry on.
i just am not familiar with the practice of baby showers being held in churches - but apparently this young lady is - she sought out another church. very encouraging.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 9:33:51 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
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I do think a person's home might be a better place to hold the shower...but if the people reach out in love to the girl I don't really see how much difference it makes on where it is.
Did she say why it was so important to have it at a church? It's odd she sought out another church..does anyone at that church know her at all? I would think a better idea would have been have it at one of the ladies homes where she currently attends...maybe a former ss teacher or something?
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 10:29:23 AM
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stellaluna
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I think it's odd to want to have a baby shower at a church. I have never in my 37 years been to a baby shower--or any shower--in a church building. Still I can think of several ways this situation could have been handled more appropriately than refusing to help this girl at all.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 10:46:17 AM
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Lady_of_Faith
Posts: 81
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At the church were I was previously a member, we gave a baby shower to a young woman who wasn't married. We didn't think that way as to the fact she wasn't married.
You're right though that it would be a good opportunity to witness to her. I pray that it will work out in your favor. I'd say have the shower anyway and for those who want to come, let them. The ones who didn't, maybe it'll be for the best.
I had my son when I was 25 and I wasn't married to the father. I had a friend at the time who was opposed to unmarried women having baby showers, so I didn't invite her to mine which was given by my aunt. Later she claimed her feelings were hurt because she wasn't invited. Strange, some people just think differently I guess.
There's nothing in the Bible that states that unmarried women shouldn't have baby showers. A baby is a gift.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 11:01:10 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
I think it's odd to want to have a baby shower at a church. I have never in my 37 years been to a baby shower--or any shower--in a church building. Still I can think of several ways this situation could have been handled more appropriately than refusing to help this girl at all.
Stella, it usually isn't actually in the "church building," if, by that you mean the Sanctuary. Many churches today have multi-purpose rooms that they allow church members to use for their functions. In my church, we have a huge campus with a Cafe, special outdoor areas, and other rooms that are often used for showers, funeral/wedding receptions, special dinners, and other private functions.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 11:02:46 AM
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stellaluna
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No, I meant a church in general. Maybe it's a regional thing, but here showers happen in people's homes.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 12:35:15 PM
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PastorPatricia
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We've had baby showers in our hall, I think the church people missed an opportunity to minister to this young lady. Remember the church isn't a hotel for the righteous but a hospital for sinners - of which I am the chief. We're having a problem with our unsaved grandson and his girlfriend, the baby is in our care because of their drinking and fighting. I thank God for all the support and help that the two churches I'm involved with have given us and the prayers that have been offered for GS and GF. That for me is what the church family should be about.
_____________________________
But be sure to fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you. Is. 12:24
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 12:39:11 PM
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LBolt
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I agree, you church did miss out on a wonder opportunity to share the love of God. The act (unwed sexual intercourse) of the young lady is wrong however, the child that is coming is not. This is an awesome opportunity to introduce her to loving saving faith in Jesus Christ.
The woman caught in adultery was in John was shown the mercy of God and was forgiven. Let's continue to pray for her and if you have any contact with her, let her know you care in some kind of tangible way.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 12:44:15 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
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quote:
I agree, you church did miss out on a wonder opportunity to share the love of God. The act (unwed sexual intercourse) of the young lady is wrong however, the child that is coming is not.
Exactly! My nephew was born to an unwed mother who gave him up in an open adoption to my sister and brother-in-law. His mother made a mistake, but my nephew certainly was no mistake...he was and is a blessing to our family.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 2:48:21 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 944
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The chuch is the body of Christ, and the building where the church meets should be used for persons who belong to that body. This young lady seemed to care more about having a shower at a chuch building tha repenting and becoming a member of the body of Christ.
Whenever we go out of our way to treat people "equally" that God sees a difference between them and us. This is not snobbery, it is just the truth. Does that make us better than them? No, and I'm not saying that at all. What I am saying is that when we let the lost (or the unrepentant believer) take part in events the same as church members, we help create the illusion that they are OK. We cover over the fact that there is a fundamental difference between them and us, and that difference is being born again through saving faith and repentance.
The young lady should have been treated with respect, and ladies in the church should have had a shower for her in one of their homes. This should have been addressed in this way by your pastor regardless of how long he had been there.
We should love the lost and unrepentant, but we should not enable the delusion that the sins they have/are committing are looked lightly on or sanctioned by God.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 2:52:47 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I do not think the Church property should be used to honor an unrepent unsaved person of any sort.
How do you know that she is unrepentant / unsaved? How do you know her standing with Christ? Simply because she sinned or because she is not marrying a man who would be bad for her and her child?
That being said, I've never heard of a church being used for any baby shower. It's best to have them all at a person's home, to avoid this sort of "problem".
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 3:01:07 PM
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Bro_Shane
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The OP said she was not a member and unsaved.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 3:04:38 PM
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Sideways
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Ah, okay. I see my mistake. Still, though, if she was a regular attender, and other women were allowed to hold a shower... what if the woman was saved and a member? Should she be cast out as a harlot? Would the saved member who made a mistake and got pregnant be allowed to hold the shower?
I still think it's best to avoid this sort of thing entirely. Have a birthday party/baby shower/whatever at a person's home. Otherwise you only invite hurt feelings and rejection. It serves no good to the church and can cause a whole lot of ill.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 3:10:26 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Ah, okay. I see my mistake. Still, though, if she was a regular attender, and other women were allowed to hold a shower... what if the woman was saved and a member? Should she be cast out as a harlot? Would the saved member who made a mistake and got pregnant be allowed to hold the shower?
I still think it's best to avoid this sort of thing entirely. Have a birthday party/baby shower/whatever at a person's home. Otherwise you only invite hurt feelings and rejection. It serves no good to the church and can cause a whole lot of ill.
Sexual sins are specifically dealth with in I Corinthians, chapter five. Here Paul tells the church in Corinth how to deal with them. I'll leave it at that to keep from dragging the thread off topic. As for your second point, the more time I spend in ministry the more I am beginning to think you may be correct.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 3:11:41 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 4316
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From: The higher lowcountry
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IMnotsohumbleO
If the body is growing to be more Christlike...then their hearts should be burdened for those who are far from God. Regardless of if or where they have a baby shower...the women of that body should have a heart for the lost (just like God) and not assume anything. I find it hard to believe that not one woman made a phone call or reached out or did something to show this girl love.
I do get the heartburn associated with many people when it comes to "celebrating" a life that was conceived outside of marriage. But, I don't get that this girl was somehow beyond the ministry or serving capacity of this church.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 3:32:24 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
Youth group girl. Long time attender. Not a member. Not saved.
She wanted to have her baby shower at the church.
Some of the women said no way! They were so disapointed in her etc...
What I have bolded is key to why they didn't allow the girl to have a shower, whether it was at the church or in someone's from the church's home.
This girl had a history with the youth group. Maybe she wanted to have the shower at the church because that youth group was the only place she felt loved and accepted. But, those sweet, little church ladies proved that was just a misconception on her part.
So, am I to assume that having a get-together at the church to provide this girl with needed items for her baby would be in some way condoning her sin? I don't think so.
That church had a perfect opportunity to reach out and love this girl and they missed the boat...no ifs, ands, or buts about that!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 4:36:20 PM
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ladyingrace1979
Posts: 413
Joined: 3/14/2008
From: Fresno CA
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So Bro Shane,
You believe that the physical property of a church should only be used for those who are born again and therefor members of the body. So do you check each persons spiritual status before they attend Sunday morning services? It's not a very long leap from not allowing non believers to have a baby shower in the multipurpose room to not allowing them in the sanctuary. How are we salt and light if we are isolationist?
Kim Q
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 5:17:06 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 944
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ladyingrace1979
So Bro Shane,
You believe that the physical property of a church should only be used for those who are born again and therefor members of the body. So do you check each persons spiritual status before they attend Sunday morning services? It's not a very long leap from not allowing non believers to have a baby shower in the multipurpose room to not allowing them in the sanctuary. How are we salt and light if we are isolationist?
Kim Q
Yes. Each member has a card we give when they join and show them the secret handshake. They must also declare themselves better than others before being allowed to enter. If a person does manage to sneak past, we have private security that will remove them and treat them roughly. 
We are salt and light in the world, not just in the church buildings. It is how we act and react in the world that makes us salt and light. I am not speaking of being an isolationist at all. The church, both the physical buildings and the corporate worship, is primarily for believers. Sure, we allow unbelievers to visit and attend in the hopes of ministering to them. I always give an invitation whenever I speak for people to have a chance to receive Christ. But if all we speak on is salvation, how will those who are already sheep be fed?
Sin is a big enough deal to God that He sent His Son to die to pay the price for it. God does not view sin lightly, and neither should we. We should treat everyone with love and respect, but we should not treat those who are lost as if they are not. Again, treating the lost as if they are not only helps to foster an illusion of safety where there is none. It is not our fellowship or showers that gets them into heaven.
Please also note I am not, have not, stated or implied the church is for the sinless. What I am saying is that those in unbelief or in open and continual rebellion must be treated in the manner set forth by scripture, with the heart and attitude set forth by scripture.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 6:00:14 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
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I do believe we open the door for others to be hurt when we celebrate certain events in some peoples life at the church and then have nothing for others. If the youth pastor is married it could have been in his home, or the pastors or a sunday school teacher's home.
Playing favorites is not something the church needs to be involved in one way or another.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 9/30/2008 10:07:20 PM
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rafterman
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/19/2005
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I can see using church discipline on a member of the church.
I was 18 and unmarried when my son was born, but I was also the pastor's son. Big difference.
This girls parents are not saved. The family doesn't have space in a home fora shower.
I think some of the church member could also have opened their home. Which was done in my case as an attempt for the women to love my son's mother who was not a christian.
The church is the only place where she has felt loved without conditions.
Now, it seems there are conditions.
I can't make her repent. I have talked to her (very bluntly in fact) about repentance.
_____________________________
"my concern is not that God is on our side, but that we are on His" abe lincoln
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