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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/24/2008 11:11:37 PM
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Mrs.X
Posts: 2947
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: Newberg, OR
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Manda and Ruth, in regards to the survey, my friend wrote me back.
quote:
Yeah I am not focusing or discussing physical health benefits in my paper, because it would make my topic too broad. And It is common knowledge that breastfeeding is better for a childs health. Instead I am focusing on three main "myths". Wheather breastfeeding enhances: intellegence, stress levels (of the child) and the bond between mother and child. So I was trying to collect data to see how many people believe these three things to be true.
It has been actually really informative and has opened my eyes to a lot of misinformation about breastfeeding
_____________________________
-Stina
From Sweet Grass to the Packin' House
A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. -Proverbs 15:1
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 4:33:16 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
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Oh, breastfeeding myths. Ok, that makes a whole lot of sense, then.
Nathan is having another bad night, and I really don't know why. I've seen no signs of illness or teething. Greg went in to lie down next to him again, thinking that he was being the nice guy, and I had to "take over" and "put my foot down" ... again. Well, Greg is back asleep, Nathan is not resting well at all, and I'm awake, too.
I wish I knew why Nathan sleeps 11 or 12 hours many nights, then has so much trouble other nights.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 8:03:33 AM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10187
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.X
Manda and Ruth, in regards to the survey, my friend wrote me back.
quote:
Yeah I am not focusing or discussing physical health benefits in my paper, because it would make my topic too broad. And It is common knowledge that breastfeeding is better for a childs health. Instead I am focusing on three main "myths". Wheather breastfeeding enhances: intellegence, stress levels (of the child) and the bond between mother and child. So I was trying to collect data to see how many people believe these three things to be true.
It has been actually really informative and has opened my eyes to a lot of misinformation about breastfeeding
If she is basing her research off that poll with no room for people to comment, her paper is going to be way off. I voted for the second two...decreases stress levels of the child and increases bond between mother and child. I did not vote for the intelligence part because I don't believe that to be a true benefit. But when I voted for the first two, I was voting that breastfeeding DID provide those benefits for me and my child. Breastfeeding did enhance those things for us and I do not consider them myths of breastfeeding. Can you have those without bfing? Sure, but bfing did enhance them for me and my children in a way bottle feeding would not have FOR US.
So yeah...I don't want to debate here (we can do that somewhere else though, if you like), but I wanted to comment on why that poll is way faulty for any kind of research.
_____________________________
He fulfills the desires of those who fear Him;
He hears their cry and saves them.
The Lord watches over all who love him,
but all the wicked He will destroy.
~Psalm 145:19-20~
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 11:41:02 AM
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gratefulforgrace
Posts: 242
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Near Spokane Washington
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
So yeah...I don't want to debate here (we can do that somewhere else though, if you like), but I wanted to comment on why that poll is way faulty for any kind of research.
I absolutely agree. I also disagree with calling the three things she mentioned myths. I don't think anyone can comment on what enhances bonding between mother and child but the mother and child in question. For me, breastfeeding totally enhanced bonding with Helen. My sister soldiered through breastfeeding her youngest child even though in many ways it hindered her ability to bond with that child. I think each case is different.
Even without those reservations, the poll is faulty and definitely shouldn't be used as supportive evidence in an academic study. I kind of wish I hadn't voted now!
_____________________________
Proud Follower of Christ
Wife of Chris
Mother of Helen and #2 due March 23!
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 11:56:12 AM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2631
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Oh, breastfeeding myths. Ok, that makes a whole lot of sense, then.
Nathan is having another bad night, and I really don't know why. I've seen no signs of illness or teething. Greg went in to lie down next to him again, thinking that he was being the nice guy, and I had to "take over" and "put my foot down" ... again. Well, Greg is back asleep, Nathan is not resting well at all, and I'm awake, too.
I wish I knew why Nathan sleeps 11 or 12 hours many nights, then has so much trouble other nights.
This is what we do for difficult nights...
This last week we traveled with Joel to Oklahoma City for his work so that meant that Jael slept in bed with us. Whenever we do that for travel it always takes a few days for her to get used to sleeping back in her crib. On Saturday night after I put her to bed (she did fine) one of the cats went into her room and woke her up. She started crying and yelling because it had startled her. I went up to her room and settled her again (took her into our room and re-wrapped her in her blankets on our bed) the whole time talking about how silly the cat was and how nice her bed is with her stuffed animals and her Dora pillow. Then I picked her up and took her back into her room and laid her down in her bed. She got upset when she thought I was going to leave again and so I told her I'd sit in the rocking chair in her room, which is next to the end of her crib. I duly did that. A min. or so later she started crying because she thought I'd left (thought I of course hadn't). I reassured her and said, "Sshhhh, Jael I'm right here" without getting up and she calmed down. It took her about 10-15 minutes to fall asleep (by that time the heater had come on) which gave me the opportunity to sneak out of her room. She stayed alseep and in her bed for the rest of the night. And now we're back to our regularly scheduled night time program! 
Is there any reason that either you or Greg can't go into Nathans room when he needs you and just sit with him until he goes back to sleep?
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 1:39:41 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: clag4christ
Is there any reason that either you or Greg can't go into Nathans room when he needs you and just sit with him until he goes back to sleep?
This may be a personal choice on my part, but I am strongly against getting a child into the habit of needing an adult to sit with them to fall asleep. I don't wish to offend those who do, so I'd rather not go deeper into it then that. In our case, it would take a lot longer then 10 minutes for Nathan to fall asleep, as he would keep checking to make sure one of us was still there.
Nathan is 20 months old today; he is a big boy and doesn't need us to sit with him till he falls asleep. What I do for him is to check on him to make sure he isn't cold, overly warm, sick, thirsty or waking up from a nightmare. If he needs something like a drink or a diaper change, I take care of his needs and sit for a few minutes to help him settle back down, then I leave while he is still awake.
Nathan knows we will always take care of his needs, but me or Greg staying there until he falls asleep is not a need, it's a wish. And sometimes mommy and daddy come before the wishes of the child.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 1:50:37 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6162
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
This may be a personal choice on my part, but I am strongly against getting a child into the habit of needing an adult to sit with them to fall asleep. I don't wish to offend those who do, so I'd rather not go deeper into it then that. In our case, it would take a lot longer then 10 minutes for Nathan to fall asleep, as he would keep checking to make sure one of us was still there.
Nathan is 20 months old today; he is a big boy and doesn't need us to sit with him till he falls asleep. What I do for him is to check on him to make sure he isn't cold, overly warm, sick, thirsty or waking up from a nightmare. If he needs something like a drink or a diaper change, I take care of his needs and sit for a few minutes to help him settle back down, then I leave while he is still awake.
Nathan knows we will always take care of his needs, but me or Greg staying there until he falls asleep is not a need, it's a wish. And sometimes mommy and daddy come before the wishes of the child.
Ruth
You and I are on exactly the same page over this. It's how we did things with both of our children.
At Nathan's age, I'd say that the reasons he sleeps well some nights and not other nights, could be possibly down to digestive issues, further teeth "grumbling", what my mum used to call "growing pains" (where your limbs hurt at night), or a very active mind (this would be very likely IMO, as he is at a stage where he is absorbing and processsing all sorts of words and meanings). In other words anything that could be rousing him from deep sleep and leaving him in the stage from which we can easily stir.
If it was me (and my ds was especially like this), I'd just keep doing what you're doing, persistently and consistently. The only extra thing we did was put music, or a story tape, on quietly when we went out of the room.
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"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 1:52:21 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gratefulforgrace
I don't think anyone can comment on what enhances bonding between mother and child but the mother and child in question. For me, breastfeeding totally enhanced bonding with Helen. My sister soldiered through breastfeeding her youngest child even though in many ways it hindered her ability to bond with that child. I think each case is different.
I think I understand where you and Donna are coming from. Mother/child bonding is totally subjective. Just as you wouldn't tell a pregnant woman that she won't bond well to her child if she doesn't breastfeed, neither would you go to a woman who did breastfeed (and felt that the experience helped her and her child) and tell her she was imagining it all.
Stress on the child? Also pretty subjective, there's no real way to prove that breastfeeding vs a mom who cuddles and loves and bottle feeds a baby will produce less stress on the baby. Each mom will come away with her own thoughts on the mater and no subjective way to prove anything.
Intelligence is something that can be studied, but it's real dicey. At the moment there's no proof that breastfeeding doesn't help intelligence, but not any good, direct proof that it does. There's just to many factors that go into a person's tested intelligence. I dunno, maybe if you had identical twins where one was breastfed and one wasn't, you might be able to have something. Or if you could prove that there was an ingredient in breastmilk that was absent in formula that directly tied to brainpower - but I doubt such a proof exists.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 3:33:02 PM
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gratefulforgrace
Posts: 242
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From: Near Spokane Washington
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I guess the subjective nature of intelligence/stress relief/bonding is what bothers me most about the whole thing. I tend to be of the "if you think it is, then it is" camp....I know, very post-modern of me. But, really, if someone thinks breastfeeding her child is helping her bond with her child then it is. Why do we need to study it to death, it's working for that person.
I am not a breastfeeding nazi. I firmly believe in doing what works for you...breastfeeding/bottlefeeding/co-sleeping/controlled crying, etc. I don't think these issues are worth a tenth of the amount of time we spend on them. Every baby is different, every mother is different, every family is different. Find what works and go with it and pfth on what anyone else says! (Even, or especially, the so-called "experts.")
_____________________________
Proud Follower of Christ
Wife of Chris
Mother of Helen and #2 due March 23!
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 3:40:40 PM
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Sideways
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At Nathan's toddler gym, there was a lady who was embarrassed to admit that she was still nursing her almost 2 year old, because "there's such a stigma in this country about it". My answer? That's the country's problem not yours.
Nursing a toddler ain't for me, but what do I care what another mom does? If she came seeking advice on a breastfeeding/child care matter, I'd talk about my own opinions, but otherwise.... Pleasantly a 3rd lady piped up and said she was still nursing her almost 3 year old, so I think it's more common then people think.
Talking around to other moms, I find that other ideas like delaying or spacing out vaccinations are also becoming more widespread, and less and less in the underground. People are just willing to talk about it more.
At the children's gym, some women go to the bathroom to nurse, but that's their call. Lots of women just use a blanket or their own shirt, and nobody cares (least of all the gym employees).
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 3:47:47 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gratefulforgrace
I tend to be of the "if you think it is, then it is" camp....I know, very post-modern of me. But, really, if someone thinks breastfeeding her child is helping her bond with her child then it is. Why do we need to study it to death, it's working for that person.
The only thing that might bother me would be if someone overzealous told a pregnant lady that if she doesn't breast feed, then all these awful/subjective things would happen to her. It puts a lot pressure on the mom, and a lot of guilt if it isn't working.
Telling a woman that breastfeeding has certain health benefits is fine, because that can be subjectively proven. I just think we should be careful about what we state as fact and what we state as "this worked for me, but may or may not work for you".
The fact vs. personal experience issue would also apply to things like co-sleeping or controlled crying. Co-sleeping would've been a disaster for me, but I would still hope to be careful in how a state facts about co-sleeping vs experience/personal opinion.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 4:09:29 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2631
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From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
but I am strongly against getting a child into the habit of needing an adult to sit with them to fall asleep.
We did what you guys are doing with our Hannah. She's been a very independent sleeper since she was about 3 months old. But I never said anything about forming a habit of you or Greg sitting in Nathans room every night. Now of course you know your Nathan better than any of us here and if you say that he wouldn't be able to go back to sleep with either you or Greg just sitting in his room so that he felt reassured and comforted, then I believe you. But that does mean that you're likely going to have to get up more than once to tend to him or be content to listen to him cry or chatter to himself as he self soothes.
However for Jael, if her routine is messed up a bit by traveling, sickness, teething, nightmares, etc. then I have no problem giving into her needs for a time; whether that be sitting in her room for 10-15 minutes or even bringing her into bed with us in the middle of the night (though that is a rare occurance now). Other than those things that I just listed, she's as independant a sleeper as our Hannah. In fact, usually, barring anything jolting to her dream time, she can usually put herself back to sleep even if she does wake in the night for whatever reason...
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 5:24:55 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
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I think the "sit by their bed till they fall asleep" issue is again one of those highly individual decisions for each family. It is not a need that Nathan has, for us to sit by his crib. He wants us to, but he does not need us to. For me and my family, this is a training issue, not mom and dad being selfish and want more sleep time or to get out bed less. That's not the issue.
I strongly feel that even a few times could be habit-forming, and that everyone in our family will get back to sleep quicker using the method I described above. And believe you me, it is a hill I am willing to die on, many times over. Nathan will not be snapping his fingers at 3am to get mommy and daddy to jump to, but I will always meet his needs whenever he has an actual need. Sitting by his crib till he falls asleep is not one of them.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 5:31:36 PM
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Brandy
Posts: 1839
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From: Los Angeles
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Wow Ruth, the way you put it sure does seem harsh towards those that get up to comfort their children in the night. Snap their fingers? I just don't see many kids having that concept even at 20 months.
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~Brandy
<--- Isabel Grace eating on Thanksgiving. Her first food.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 5:35:06 PM
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clag4christ
Posts: 2631
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: We just moved to the big state of Texas!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Brandy
Wow Ruth, the way you put it sure does seem harsh towards those that get up to comfort their children in the night. Snap their fingers? I just don't see many kids having that concept even at 20 months.
I agree...especially since I didn't indicate that anyone should 'obey' their children. My examples of my Jael actually needing my comfort were clearly stated. Can a 20 or 21 month old in my case try and manipulate a parent...sure...but if there is an 'upset' in the schedule, like, maybe dad going away on a business trip for a long time, then I feel it's perfectly reasonable for that parent to comfort his child to reassure him that dad's not going to 'disappear' anytime soon...imo.
_____________________________
<-----Jael as Tinkerbell - Halloween 2008
If you don't want people to insult your intelligence; don't make it so obvious that you have none.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 5:55:48 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10187
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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Oh goodness. We are not going here again.
Nope.
As your friend, let me reiterate what Ruth is saying...that she is speaking of her child and her family, and no one else. I know that. You should know that. And we do not read any more into the typed word, which we all know is sometimes a problem to interpret the true meaning of. I have two children who need me to stay nearby while they fall asleep, and I am not taking what she is saying about her family personally. You don't need to either.
As a moderator, I am asking you to please drop the topic and move along before feelings are hurt over something that is clearly a matter of personal preference and nothing more. Thank you.
_____________________________
He fulfills the desires of those who fear Him;
He hears their cry and saves them.
The Lord watches over all who love him,
but all the wicked He will destroy.
~Psalm 145:19-20~
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/25/2008 7:22:38 PM
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lexie
Posts: 2959
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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quote:
I am not a breastfeeding nazi. I firmly believe in doing what works for you...breastfeeding/bottlefeeding/co-sleeping/controlled crying, etc. I don't think these issues are worth a tenth of the amount of time we spend on them. Every baby is different, every mother is different, every family is different. Find what works and go with it and pfth on what anyone else says! (Even, or especially, the so-called "experts.")
Good points! I agree we spend too much time on issues such as this. At 2.5-3 months I put Akeelah on formula full time. Breastfeeding was not working for me, and it was stressful for me. Akeelah and I have had no bonding issues. Whenever I gave her a bottle, we kept things the same as when she was bf'ing (holding her the same way, eye contact, etc.) All I heard from people IRL was how formula fed babies get sick more. But you know what? While all of the breastfed babies at playgroup were getting colds before the age of 1, Akeelah didn't have her first until she was 18 months old. She is loving, well-adjusted, healthy and ahead on her milestones.
Does that mean I'll formula feed my next child? Nope. I'll be bf'ing my next child and we'll take it from there.
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/26/2008 6:59:54 PM
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lexie
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From: Toronto
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Does anyone use or has anyone used Seventh Generation diapers? They are a brand I was considering, but the baby I look after uses them, and since I've started looking after I've noticed that they leak a lot. Is that common or does this baby just have an incredible digestive system?
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/26/2008 8:42:16 PM
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firefightermama
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From: Canada
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Lexie, HERE IS A LINK to a review that the Shopping Bags did on diapers and Seventh Generation was one of the ones that they tested.
_____________________________
~yolanda~
"I wish I was a glow worm, cuz glow worms are never glum.
How can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/26/2008 9:13:50 PM
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lexie
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Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
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Thanks Yo! Today's Parent also rated them the best environment friendly diaper as well, which is why I was surprised to see that they don't hold up well with this baby.
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I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/28/2008 8:51:06 AM
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Flintejae
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It's so early. I couldn't sleep once Jason left to go to Kmart at six am so i decided to post. :)
Jadon has SIX teeth now! It's been rough because he's been teething back to back for almost two months now, I think. I mean he hasn't been terrible, but I know he hasn't been comfortable either. He has four teeth on top and two on the bottom. I celebrate every time one breaks through! lol.
It's hard to believe he's going to be nine months old in just two weeks. Jadon went out at six am this morning (it's 'black friday) to get a great deal on the "Little People Farm and Sounds" toy. I thought that would be something good for him to have. He'll open it on Christmas even though I'm sure he'll be FAR more interested in the paper and boxes. :) I asked my MIL to get the LeapFrog learning table. I hope she gets it. Those are the two things I want him to have (outside of those peek-a-boo blocks.)
He's getting so tenacious. He can crawl!!! But he only crawls for things he wants. Otherwise he kind of drags himself around slightly to get in a better position for a toy. The one thing he always WANTS are the DOG toys - especially the sharp jagged ones! I don't care where they are - he finds them! I hate to throw them away because our dog loves them,but I may have to. He's also found the dogs water bowl. He loves using his hands to splash the water everywhere, lol.  That and wires! He can find a cord in a moments time. Our computer area is an issue because he can push the computer buttons, open the drawers, and then tries to break the drive by pulling it out! I can't baby proof that too much so I just watch him A LOT. 
I haven't been to a movie in a very very long time. I wanted to go see "Australia", but Jason isn't keene on the idea. He thinks it'll be too long and he doesn't think it'll be worth it. The only time I've been away from Jadon is to go to the grocery store or something like that. I feel like I NEED to go have a date with my husband and watch something GOOD. I haven't decided if Australia is worth the battle or if I should look to watch something else. Jadon is eating solids now, drinking watered down juice, so I can nurse him and leave him with my MIL for a short stint of time without worry he'll need to be nursed. She can pacify him with juice or solids if she had to. I'll just have to nurse him RIGHT before we leave.
I'm going to pull all my Christmas decorations out today. I plan on doing it during the day when Jason's at work. He isn't one who enjoys decorating so I figure I'll just do it on my own and avoid the hassle of feeling like I have to haggle. LOL. It's going to be interesting how jadon responds to the tree and lights. I'm hoping I have 'safe' ornaments I can put on the bottom that I won't be worried about if he happens to get.
Whew, that was a long update. You get a gold star if you read all of it.
_____________________________
- Janine
Jadon, 3/12/08. Thank You, Lord, for Your Amazing Miracles
 Moo!
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RE: Baby Chat (take 5)!!!!! - 11/28/2008 9:43:16 AM
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firefightermama
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I read it all. Is my star in the mail?
That's hilarious that Jadon has 6 teeth! Chase is 14 months old and still only has 4 teeth. He was 10 months when he got his first tooth. He can eat anything though, he chews stuff up pretty good.
Jae, don't you love Little People? We found a Little People Nativity scene this year, I'm so excited to give it to Chase, it is too cute. It was $40 for the set, which I didn't htink was too too bad. My mom bought some other piece that goes with it on ebay, I think it's a fence or something that goes with it. I'm excited about it!
For Christmas, we wanted to start a few tradtions, so our traditions include new jammies for Chase that he gets to wear on Christmas eve. I already have them, and they are so cute, I love Costco sleepers. And the other tradition is that Daddy will read the Christmas story to the kids before bed. We did this last year, and Chase was only 3 months old, but he was so interested, it was so cute. Do you know how long it took me to find the "real" Christmas story in book form? There's stories about Mary, and stories about the lamb, and stories about stars and snowmen etc etc, but I had to go all over town to find the Nativity story. I'm glad I found it though. hopefully I can find it somewhere in my mess of a house.
_____________________________
~yolanda~
"I wish I was a glow worm, cuz glow worms are never glum.
How can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum
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I think all of my kids have been like that from time to time.
