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mimosaC -> Help with bullying (9/25/2008 3:08:18 AM)


I really need some help with my husband, who is a devoted husband and father. He is really a wonderful man in the sense that he is faithful, trustworthy, responsible and is a family man in every sense of the word.

I know he loves me and would do anything for me. But his problem is that he is very quick tempered and when he's angry he shouts at me like I'm a dog. I feel that while he loves me, at the root of things he doesn't respect me. He is a verbally abusive bully who shouts when he feels like it and then goes off and sulks over ridiculously (I think) trivial matters. Today I shifted some stuff in his computer (I admit I know he doesn't like me to muck about with his stuff) but all it required was that I shift it back to another folder. That was enough to set him off about how I don't respect his wishes. True and I confess I should not have done it, but my father saw the whole thing and said that there was absolutely no call for his temper outburst.

Bernice, how do I handle a bully, which in effect is what my husband is? A bully who uses all the worst manipulative tricks in the book - threats to leave, sulking, silent treatment. We just had a huge blow up a few days ago and he apologised, saying he would treat me better from now on. Today he showed that there hasn't really been any inner change.

My dad reckons I give in too fast and that I've added to the problem. He feels that like all bullies, my husband will back down when his bluff is called. At any rate, I too feel I need a better way of handling him than being the one to initiate reconciliation 90 per cent of the time.

I need to know how to handle MYSELF with self respect, but sadly, I don't seem to be able to do this. I find fighting and the ensuing tension unbearable. Hate being at war with him. It pains me so much that many times I'm willing to eat humble pie just to make things right with him. God, even as I write this I hate myself for being so weak. I sound like a right abused wife, don't I? And yet I'm a strong woman. I know I am. I've lived with this for 20 years.

I don't want to make it sound like we're not happy. I love him very very much, but for the first time I think that if he did want to initiate a separation I wouldn't stop him. I've come to the painful realisation that a husband who doesn't respect me enough to speak to me civilly may not be worth the trouble of holding on to.

Sorry for the long post. Any insights would be really helpful. Thank you.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 6:49:12 AM)

You have been married a lot longer than I have. So take what I'm going to say with a grain of salt.[;)]


Firstly, if you do something wrong, you should admit it and apologize, no matter how he's behaving. Moving computer files around, especially after he's asked you not to, sounds a bit hostile, actually. I would be seriously annoyed if my dh sat down at the computer and moved my files around. I would probably yell too if he did things like that on a regular basis. [&:] Perhaps one of the logs that keeps this fire burning is that you don't actually respect his feelings, or automatically assume that his feelings are wrong and yours are right in every case. I'm not saying that's what's happening, but it's always worth doing a little self-examination before making a big decision like divorce. [;)] I will tell you that I was utterly shocked when I realized my marriage problems were not all my husband's fault [&o] and that it is possible for even a good person to blow up when they are needled enough or consistently rejected or disrespected. You may want to check out the book Love and Respect and see if you recognize your marriage in there.

That said, I think you need to stop engaging him when he becomes like this. He bullies you because you allow it. That doesn't mean you should bully him back, or become a shrieking harpy in retaliation. Giving a person some of their own medicine is soooo cathartic, I know, but it's not Godly or useful in the long run.
When he starts the yelling and name-calling, shut your emotions down. He wants to get a rise out of you and see you hurt (either because he's an evil man, or because he himself is hurting on the inside), so don't give him that. Instead of defending yourself, yelling back at him, or crying, tell him "I am sorry you feel that way. I'll be glad to talk about it when you've calmed down. Right now I am going to remove myself because what you are saying and the way you're saying it is unacceptable". Say it nicely. Smile. Walk away. You'd be surprised, but that takes real strength to do.



CheshireMuse -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 9:55:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mimosaC


I really need some help with my husband, who is a devoted husband and father. He is really a wonderful man in the sense that he is faithful, trustworthy, responsible and is a family man in every sense of the word.

I know he loves me and would do anything for me. But his problem is that he is very quick tempered and when he's angry he shouts at me like I'm a dog. I feel that while he loves me, at the root of things he doesn't respect me. He is a verbally abusive bully who shouts when he feels like it and then goes off and sulks over ridiculously (I think) trivial matters. Today I shifted some stuff in his computer (I admit I know he doesn't like me to muck about with his stuff) but all it required was that I shift it back to another folder. That was enough to set him off about how I don't respect his wishes. True and I confess I should not have done it, but my father saw the whole thing and said that there was absolutely no call for his temper outburst.

Bernice, how do I handle a bully, which in effect is what my husband is? A bully who uses all the worst manipulative tricks in the book - threats to leave, sulking, silent treatment. We just had a huge blow up a few days ago and he apologised, saying he would treat me better from now on. Today he showed that there hasn't really been any inner change.

My dad reckons I give in too fast and that I've added to the problem. He feels that like all bullies, my husband will back down when his bluff is called. At any rate, I too feel I need a better way of handling him than being the one to initiate reconciliation 90 per cent of the time.

I need to know how to handle MYSELF with self respect, but sadly, I don't seem to be able to do this. I find fighting and the ensuing tension unbearable. Hate being at war with him. It pains me so much that many times I'm willing to eat humble pie just to make things right with him. God, even as I write this I hate myself for being so weak. I sound like a right abused wife, don't I? And yet I'm a strong woman. I know I am. I've lived with this for 20 years.

I don't want to make it sound like we're not happy. I love him very very much, but for the first time I think that if he did want to initiate a separation I wouldn't stop him. I've come to the painful realisation that a husband who doesn't respect me enough to speak to me civilly may not be worth the trouble of holding on to.

Sorry for the long post. Any insights would be really helpful. Thank you.


First of all, I'm very sorry you're going through this.

When my husband and I married, he was very much like yours - and to a degree, he still is - very quick tempered with a tendency to overreact and yell alot.

I agree with the other poster about walking away. It really works, and was the only thing that wrought real change for us. But, it's important to be consistent about it, because his reactions are habit (as my hubby's were) and it takes time to unlearn things. Also, not allowing him to see you're upset is helpful too...

However, I would have to disagree with the other person about your husband being evil or having no respect for you. That may be the case, but then again, it may not. My husband is the way he is because that was the only way he ever saw adults in his life address problems. When we married, he honestly thought that was normal. And even after he knew it wasn't normal, he continued to do it because it had become a knee-jerk response.

Give it a try and see what happens. I'll be praying for you.. :-)



Zhi -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 12:16:01 PM)

My husband started getting a little, um, overwrought, about a computer game we were playing (he gets hypercompetitive sometimes). He would yell and carry on like you're describing. Yes, sometimes I made a mistake which resulted in a loss for us, but sometimes I didn't, and either way that's just not appropriate behavior.

Like many of the other posters here, the only thing that worked was for me to calmly say that we could discuss it rationally when he calmed down, and then leave the room and do something else (lock myself in a bathroom and read a book, go for a walk, etc). Arguing is not going to help when they're in that state. Even apologizing is not going to help when they're in that state (if there's something you need to apologize for, wait until he's acting like an adult, and then go to him). Let him throw his tantrum without you. Eventually he'll probably realize how childish it is. Same if he's sulking or giving you the silent treatment... just ignore it. Pretend he's not even doing it. He does it because he thinks it will affect you, if it's not working, he will eventually figure that out and stop acting so childish. Nothing is worse for a sulker than someone apparently not even noticing they're sulking.

Whatever he does, you can be an adult. This is how you exercise your strength and self respect, by retaining your dignity and maturity. It's not about winning and standing up for yourself in the heat of the battle, because from an adult perspective the need to do so is itself a ridiculous situation that there's no reason to put yourself in. It's not that he doesn't love you, it's that he's working at the emotional level of a three year old sometimes, and just as a three year old needs to be trained out of it and get over it, he needs to be trained out of it and get over it.

My husband has pretty much gotten over the yelling over the game thing at this point, because he realizes that if he wants to play the game with me, he's going to have to act like an adult, even if we lose.



tn1 -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 12:35:35 PM)

A VERY helpful book - "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend. They also have the book "Boundaries in Marriage". It's important to have strong personal boundaries; without these we either abuse others or allow them to abuse us.

I read "Boundaries" several years ago and it really helped my marriage. I too do not like confrontation and will often go out of my way, eat humble pie, in order to live in peace. However, I've learned that there is a peace that only comes on the other side of war. Some fights just have to be fought, sooner or later. The longer we put them off, the bigger the problem gets.

Blessings,
Sherman

P.S. Of course, when I speak of fight, I mean fighting fairly; and when I speak of war I mean being willing to go through the struggle.



jaimestarcross -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 1:18:38 PM)

You describe your husband as faithful, trustworthy, responsible and a family man...devoted husband.

But he's a bully...
and you goad him.

You and him know how to push each others buttons - after 20 years of marriage you know what can set each other off.
I see a lack of respect on both parts and people who can't communicate effectively with each other.

It's the little things in marriage that cause it to crumble... couples chipping away at each other over time... until neither one respects the other and they don't "feel" like being with each other any more.

Neither of you are showing respect for each other - apologizing is a good start but without real effort to work out the real issues between you and him it means very little.

If you aren't respecting each other - then I ask you, is either of you respecting God in your home?
Are you both longing and striving to be Christ-like and showing His love to each other?
How's your faith walk as a couple?


There's a quote by Amy Carmichael that states:
You can give without loving
but you cannot love without giving.

*Seek marriage counseling and spiritual counseling ASAP... I pray it's not
too late to save your marriage.



MC4JC -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 1:25:23 PM)

He's a verbal abuser. I don't like it when people label this as "bully" or "controlling". Call it what it is - ABUSE.

My ex husband was a verbal/emotional abuser and I didn't know what that was for 15 yrs. When I found out and he would never admit to being an abuser nor want to change, we were divorced. It took awhile to forgive him, but you don't (and should not) stay in an abusive relatijonship. Especially if you have kids - the kids will copy the parents. I only wish I had known about abuse long before that. My son was about 12/13 when we divorced.

You need to get out and take the kids and if he will not get any kind of help/counseling, then you need to take the next step. I never recommend staying with an abuser - they rarely change long term. I dealt with my ex saying he was sorry or saying he'd change (without help) for years. He might for a month, then it would start all over.

Do you want your kids to continue living in this situation and possibly becoming an abuser in the future as they will think its normal behavior?



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 3:00:22 PM)

<sigh> I knew there would be a don't bother to try anything, just dump the loser post.



But 5 stars for Jaimestarcross!



MC4JC -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 3:16:13 PM)

Why do people think its ok to "try" and stay with an abuser? Because he's only yelling, verbal abuse and he's not physically abusing? Sorry but unless you've been there and had to go thru what I did for years (getting worse) then you don't know what its like!

Verbal/emotional abuse is worse then physical and either abuse is NOT right and you should not stay. Love doesn't mean you should stick around to be torn down verbally/emotionally. Too many woman give the excuses of staying when you should not be staying. Abuse is NOT loving - its hurting.

Abusers don't change.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 3:44:47 PM)

quote:

Sorry but unless you've been there and had to go thru what I did for years (getting worse) then you don't know what its like!


I have, and I do. I have also been on the other side of that equation. Nobody here has said that verbal abuse is loving. Nobody here has said that it should continue. Nobody here has said that his behavior is right.

She has stayed for 20 years. She has *fed* the cycle so far. We have simply given her one more thing to try. We don't know the whole dynamics of their relationship. He may be an evil, unredeemable jerk of a man. From her description, it sounds like he's a fundamentally decent man with a problem (Note her description of him at the beginning of her post), and that rather than he being scum of the earth and she being a complete helpless victim, they are in a bad cycle together. Scum of the earth she can't change. By bad cycle she can do something about by changing the way she's been behaving and reacting to his bad behavior.

quote:

Love doesn't mean you should stick around to be torn down verbally/emotionally.


It hasn't been suggested that she stick around and do nothing, or silently "cope". In fact, it was very clearly suggested that "strength" involves not letting him tear her down.

quote:

Abusers don't change.

That may be generally true, but not always. Further, it is not always nearly so simple as one person being flat out evil and the other entirely innocent. Couples very often get stuck in reacting to each other poorly, escalating conflicts, picking fights and continuing on like that. That is something that can change.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 4:04:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom

<sigh> I knew there would be a don't bother to try anything, just dump the loser post.



But 5 stars for Jaimestarcross!


Yep, although when that man who had a verbally abusive wife posted a while back no one said that (I did say I would understand him living separately for a season, but hesitated to encourage that because of their 10 month old baby).

If someone (male or female) is being physically abused, they need to go live elsewhere (at least for a season) for their own safey.

Verbal abuse is bad, but needs to be worked through and dealt with Biblically (which can include counseling..and even a TEMPORARY physical living apart, but NOT divorce).

Marriage is for better or for WORSE.

Those who work through these problems are often happier down the road than those who divorce.



MC4JC -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 5:03:46 PM)

One,

That is where you are really wrong. NO one should stay in a marriage of any kind of abuse - verbal, physical or emotional. So many people just say "he's not that bad, you should work it out".....you would do good if you really sat in on abuse victims stories and then come back and tell me that a verbal abuse victim should stick around.

You don't know what its like to be put down, to be told you are no good, you can't do anything right, you are stupid, etc. Everything is YOUR fault, "I lost my job because of you". Verbal abuse victims suffer in silence - thinking that "if only I did this or that, he would not be that way" "if only I walk out of the room, everything will be ok". To be denied things, to be isolated from friends/family.

Verbal or physical abuse should never be tolerated and you can't fix the abuser by staying. If the abuser doesn't seek help - all the praying in the world will not help. The marriage must end if the victim is to be helped. Verbal is sneaky; it may take years to develop and its a controlling trap. I don't think God or Jesus would ever tell someone to stay and take "abuse".

By telling verbal abuse victims they should tolerate it, is wrong and too many suffer because of that kind of thinking. Your kids grow up thinking that is normal way to treat people.

I was a victim; my husband (2nd) was a victim of both physical and verbal abuse. We know what its like and we are now blessed with a loving marriage that God wants.

If you really want to know more about verbal abuse, read the book "Abuse Survivors Speak Out" by Patricia Evans. Then come and talk with me about abuse and whether its "right" to suffer in a marriage with it.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 5:11:13 PM)

quote:


You don't know what its like to be put down, to be told you are no good, you can't do anything right, you are stupid, etc.


Your other points are very valid, and I accept them, but please don't tell me I don't know what that is like...I haven't been married but I have a sibling, and many many schoolmates who treated me just the way you describe.



MC4JC -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 5:34:13 PM)

One, I'm sorry that you are a victim. What I don't understand is why you would even think to tell a person to stay around for abuse. Married or not. We probably have more in common. I just get upset because too many people stay in marriages of abuse when they shouldn't (even I did cause I didn't know and was afraid to leave for awhile).



Zhi -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 5:54:05 PM)

Nobody's told anyone to stay around for abuse.

We've given the OP advice (which she asked for) regarding how to try to deal with a situation she described.

I'm not sure why you would have a problem with that.



Hislittleone -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 7:23:02 PM)

quote:

I just get upset because too many people stay in marriages of abuse when they shouldn't (even I did cause I didn't know and was afraid to leave for awhile).


That's definitely a valid concern. (Speaking in generalities here, not particularly about the op's situation.)

MimosaC, why did you move your husband's things around if you knew it would only upset him? I'm not pointing fingers here, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

Either way, your husband is completely wrong in his behavior. Couldn't the Matthew 18 process be applied here? Approach him privately and if he won't change his abusive behavior then take witnesses (like a pastor) and approach him again. If he still refuses to repent and change his ways then perhaps it would be time to separate for a season.

While you can't force someone to change you can certainly have a strong influence on the choices they make.



Kat_D -> RE: Help with bullying (9/25/2008 8:24:37 PM)

I agree with everything 3capp's has said.

However, one thing I didn't see addressed in the other replies and something that stuck out like a sore thumb to me:

It is disrespectful to your husband to discuss him and your marriage with your Dad. This is between you and your husband and situations and occurrences inside your marriage should not be discussed with other family members, imo. When your Dad began to put in his two cents, you should have stopped him.

Oh, and btw, who is Bernice?



SurpassingPeace -> RE: Help with bullying (9/26/2008 9:31:12 AM)

I understand what Kat_D is saying and I would agree in a nonabusive marriage. The ups and downs between husband and wife are no one else's business. However, abuse thrives on secrecy and silence. In this case, it may be good that others know what is going on in the marriage. When you are directly involved with a situations, especially a voilatile situations, in can be really hard to see clearly. Someone on the outside can often see the whole picture much more clearly.

Karen



captainfraulein -> RE: Help with bullying (10/6/2008 9:33:57 PM)

One thing Dr. Phil has says that resonates with me is that people do not do a particular type of behavior unless there is a pay-off.

There is some pay-off your husband is getting for this behavior. Speculation is he feels domination, like he is in control which is sinful. His behavior is sinful.

Deal with it as you would anyone engaging in a particular sinful, annoying behavior. Make it not fun anymore. A person who tries to dominate like this usually wants you to falter...to yell/scream/argue with them.

If you ignore them while they are being a bully, not talk to them for a day or two...it just stops being fun.

Don't stop there, make sure as others have brought up, to get some accountability. YOUR DAD should have spoken to your husband. Confronted him.

If you continue to disengage when he acts abusive then confront in a loving manner when he is calmed down "this is not helpful nor productive" it may make him think. All the fun and pay back lessens.

I may not know or have a clue what I am talking about since I have never been married. But I have been bullied at past jobs by people and this seems to get good results. I HATE ignoring people. But it seems the bully gets really upset when ignored.

And many bullies I have encountered were fairly nice people who just were very frustrated at life and wanted to feel in control somehow.

Ephesians 6shows how bad behavior is going against what Jesus's teaches here. Fathers are not to provoke their children to anger...masters are not to threaten slaves.

The last portion of Ephesians 5 shows how a husband is supposed to present his wife in splendor without a spot or wrinkle...how can he accomplish this when he is ashamed of himself for tearing her down?



captainfraulein -> RE: Help with bullying (10/6/2008 9:37:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

I agree with everything 3capp's has said.

However, one thing I didn't see addressed in the other replies and something that stuck out like a sore thumb to me:

It is disrespectful to your husband to discuss him and your marriage with your Dad. This is between you and your husband and situations and occurrences inside your marriage should not be discussed with other family members, imo. When your Dad began to put in his two cents, you should have stopped him.

Oh, and btw, who is Bernice?


The father should not just have discussed this with you. He should have stepped in and confronted the abusive husband not just complained about the husband's behavior. Maybe he'll wake up if enough people point out to him what he is doing is sinful and wrong. Sins thrive where there are secrets.



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