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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 9/24/2008 1:29:33 PM
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jazzact13
Posts: 447
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quote:
It would be awesome if our musicians of today were willing to just play
and worship the Lord 24/7.
I assume you mean in shifts, of course 
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there is no justice in the rhetoric of class hatred
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 9/24/2008 2:07:41 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4661
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I've always thought this was a fun passage:
2Ch 30:21 - So the children of Israel who were present at Jerusalem kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread seven days with great gladness; and the Levites and the priests praised the Lord day by day, singing to the Lord, accompanied by loud instruments.
They were pretty enthusiastic because Hezekiah was bringing back their previous practice of keeping the Passover.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 9/24/2008 7:06:17 PM
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TrustingGod
Posts: 162
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I think we all have our own preferences. Therefore, loud, hip music is good for one and soft, slow-tempo hymns is good for another. Neither is right or wrong. We aren't going to keep the current generation in church by playing Rock of Ages in a slow tempo. If we want to keep our youth, we need to appeal to their style of music.
Music shouldn't affect the message. The pastor still needs to preach the WORD. As long as the music is glorifying to the Lord, fast or slow - it is all good.
If a church's music style is not your cup of tea, find another church that preaches the Word AND plays the type of music you enjoy.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 9/29/2008 8:16:20 PM
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DWinMadison
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Although I grew up in very traditional worship, I find the new "emerging" worship style to be quite refreshing. I've been in choir for almost 35 years, but it struck me a couple of years ago that we (choirs, soloists, worship leaders) have, in many ways, stolen worship from teh worshipers. I attend both the traditional sevice and contemprary ones at our church, and here's what I see. In the traditonal service teh congregation sits listening to the piano and organ, listening to the choir special, listening to the soloists, listening to the sermon...almost like we are sitting and watching a "show." And, I'll wager that how most of us grew up. Contrast that to our contemporary service where until the pastor speaks the entire congregation is on their feet, singing, some lifting hands. A soloist or choir/ensemble would be "unwelcome" because I believe this younger generation wants to worship "first hand" instead of vicariously through worship leaders on the platform. What do you guys think?
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 9/30/2008 11:41:29 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2072
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How about John Wesley's "Directions for Singing"?
I'll just include a few to give you an idea:
Sing lustily and with a good courage. Beware of singing as if you were dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength. Be no more afraid of your voice now, nor more ashamed of its being heard, than when you sung the songs of Satan.
Sing modestly. Do not bawl, so as to be heard above or distract from the rest of the congregation, that you may not destroy the harmony; but strive to unite your voices together, so as to make one clear melodious sound.
Sing in time. Whatever time is sung be sure to keep with it. Do not run before nor stay behind it; but attend close to the leading voices, and move therewith as exactly as you can; and take care not to sing too slow. This drawling way naturally steals on all who are lazy; and it is high time to drive it out from us, and sing all our tunes just as quick as we did at first.
Above all sing spiritually. Have an eye to God in every word you sing. Aim at pleasing him more than yourself, or any other creature. In order to do this attend strictly to the sense of what you sing, and see that your heart is not carried away with the sound, but offered to God continually; so shall your singing be such as the Lord will approve here, and reward you when he cometh in the clouds of heaven.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/1/2008 11:40:04 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
Sing in time.
That must be when everyone could carry a tune
and keep time? lol.
Some of the most blessings I got were from people
who were horrible singers, but they sang unto the
Lord from the depths of their heart and soul.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/1/2008 12:00:12 PM
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Focusing
Posts: 6014
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Lapidoth - I couldn't agree more! I very much enjoy listening to someone who has a wonderful voice, but I have been so blessed by hearing the mentally challenged adults who sing from a place deep in their hearts.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/1/2008 3:54:58 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1950
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
How about John Wesley's "Directions for Singing"?
I'll just include a few to give you an idea:
Sing lustily and with a good courage. Beware of singing as if you were dead, or half asleep; but lift up your voice with strength.
Ha, this must have been the part that my dad remembered, as a good Methodist.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Some of the most blessings I got were from people
who were horrible singers, but they sang unto the
Lord from the depths of their heart and soul.
And that would likely be the perspective I have now, but as a teenager sitting next to my dad in a Methodist church where he was like the only one singing with gusto, and he couldn't keep a tune, LOL, was I embarrassed!
quote:
ORIGINAL: DWinMadison
I've been in choir for almost 35 years, but it struck me a couple of years ago that we (choirs, soloists, worship leaders) have, in many ways, stolen worship from teh worshipers. I attend both the traditional sevice and contemprary ones at our church, and here's what I see. In the traditonal service teh congregation sits listening to the piano and organ, listening to the choir special, listening to the soloists, listening to the sermon...almost like we are sitting and watching a "show." And, I'll wager that how most of us grew up. Contrast that to our contemporary service where until the pastor speaks the entire congregation is on their feet, singing, some lifting hands.
And that is very similar to my experience. Being an AofG church, people are responsive in our traditional service, but there is, IMO, just too much emphasis on the "performance." And I say that as a lover of the arts. I've just come to a place where I am not as comfortable in worship with the big choir and the big band/orchestra and the soloists who are performance artists.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/2/2008 1:13:28 PM
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eaglelady11
Posts: 336
Joined: 7/20/2005
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this is timely. I have been thinking of leaving the church I go to and try another church. they don't sing hymns and sing this loud rock 'n'roll like stuff with lyrics that aren't scriptural, just feel good. hte Pastor could use more scruptire and less stories.
so I have been singing hymns in my car, and visiting other churches. I used to belong to a choir back in florida.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/22/2008 10:46:51 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
The best time of worship I have is when I'm alone at the church at night.
I can relate..some of my favorite memories are times I sat in the church alone with my son listening to him playing worship music..often improvising the music as a love offering from the heart....nothing that could be found in a book.
If I had to choose any type of worship that is what I would choose...but then how would a congregation adapt to that...people like what is familiar most of the time.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/25/2008 1:04:08 AM
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twincities
Posts: 95
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
The more impressive the show up front, the more the people sit back and enjoy the show.
Exactly!
how do you know that for sure? shouldn't worship leaders excel in their ministry? does it have to sound off-key to be worshipful?
It probally is true that people do just watch and listen to the music but shouldn't worship leaders excel in their ministry? be the best they can be. King David danced.
I truly enjoy the worship lead at my church, in its various forms. Let God be our judge.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/25/2008 7:53:54 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Although a lot of my posts seem to come from the liberal side of things, I have a strong conservative tendency in my worship style. I miss having music to read. I miss being able to sing the tenor's part. I miss old hyms by Luther and Bach. I miss some of the poetry in that music. In today's style of worship music, the folks playing the music are expected to be able to pick out the harmonies on their own just based on their knowledge of chords. That tends to leave out the rest of us that actually need music.
You can actually sight-read your part, but not pick out your part (or at least a part) by ear? I'd bet that you're in a small minority of people.
I don't think you can take the author's experience and make a generalized statement about it; it's really dependent on the dynamics of the band and the congregation. If the congregation is dead, it doesn't matter what you play or how you play it. The singing will be thin and mumbled.
My complaint about modern praise music is that many of the songs were originally written for one person and their particular vocal style and they just don't translate well to being sung by large groups of people; the phrasing is just awkward. This is an exaggeration, but imagine having a choir try to sing something by Aerosmith, GnR, or the Rolling Stones - it'd be idiotic. Their songs are written to highlight a particular singer's style. Classical hymns, OTOH, were written and phrased in such a way to facilitate corporate singing.
And regarding volume - pipe organs can EASILY achieve the same SPL levels as a PA system. As a sound guy, I'm frustrated by the fact that my church has neighbors close by. I have to keep it under about 83dB. 
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/25/2008 8:43:42 PM
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GodsMusic
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You can't imagine a choir version of Walk This Way?
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/25/2008 9:57:28 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GodsMusic
You can't imagine a choir version of Walk This Way?
I've heard a choir version of Blood, Sweat & Tears' "Spinning Wheel." It was even worse than you'd imagine.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/28/2008 6:10:16 PM
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JimC
Posts: 1215
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From: Kennesaw, GA
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Thank God, I can't relate to this.
My church is 99.99987% SOUTHERN GOSPEL, and we use the Red Book (SHAPE NOTE) hymnal.
We have one of the BEST choirs and music ministry in the Southeast, but that doesn't diminish congregational singing.
We don't do words on the wall, and we routinely have some of the BEST SG groups at our church.
Most recently,
The Talley Trio
The Hayes Family
The Mark Trammell Trio
Greater Vision
Ricky Atkinson
Amy Roth
Danny Funderburk
Gold City
The Kingdom Heirs
The Old Paths.
Plus, we got Ivan Parker and The Perrys booked in the next few months.
Yeah.......I'm BLESSED, and I KNOW IT!!!!!!!
_____________________________
Semper Fidelis - that says it all!
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 10/28/2008 6:51:16 PM
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TrustingGod
Posts: 162
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JimC, you should look into having Three Bridges at your church. We've heard them several time and they are great. They are based in Nashville but do travel.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 11/1/2008 9:46:44 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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My church is 85%+ college/grad students and recent grads, so as you can imagine, our music is "contemporary." I run sound 1-2x/month and things always sound a bit better when the congregation gets into it. This past week was probably the best I've ever heard it, to the point of me getting goosebumps.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 11/1/2008 11:49:56 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4661
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quote:
ORIGINAL: twincities
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: crankius
The more impressive the show up front, the more the people sit back and enjoy the show.
Exactly!
how do you know that for sure? shouldn't worship leaders excel in their ministry? does it have to sound off-key to be worshipful?
It probally is true that people do just watch and listen to the music but shouldn't worship leaders excel in their ministry? be the best they can be. King David danced.
I truly enjoy the worship lead at my church, in its various forms. Let God be our judge.
I agree that everything we do should be done to our best. I do think we should be like the Levites and choose skilled musicians. That wasn't my point. My point is that the more there is a show up front, with lots of loud music and lots of instruments, it turns more into a concert and less like corporate worship.
(At the church I attend right now, the leader doesn't read music, and as far as I can tell, neither does anyone else up front. For those of us who do read music, it can be painful to listen to.  )
I'd really like to hear more of the congregation around me singing the songs, like a collective group, and not have so much of a show up front. That's my preference, and I accept that it is a preference. 
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 11/3/2008 10:18:26 PM
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utilityfielder
Posts: 11545
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Home of the Champions
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quote:
I'd really like to hear more of the congregation around me singing the songs, like a collective group, and not have so much of a show up front. That's my preference, and I accept that it is a preference.
Cranky, My church does not have a choir and we do not use any instruments. We sing only Psalms in 4 part harmony, acapella. I really love the simplicity of it.
_____________________________
Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement. Ronald Reagan
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 11/3/2008 11:53:26 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2072
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: utilityfielder
quote:
I'd really like to hear more of the congregation around me singing the songs, like a collective group, and not have so much of a show up front. That's my preference, and I accept that it is a preference.
Cranky, My church does not have a choir and we do not use any instruments. We sing only Psalms in 4 part harmony, acapella. I really love the simplicity of it.
Oh yeah, please tell us more. The psalms in 4 part harmony sounds like heaven to me.
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 11/4/2008 9:22:39 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: utilityfielder
quote:
I'd really like to hear more of the congregation around me singing the songs, like a collective group, and not have so much of a show up front. That's my preference, and I accept that it is a preference.
Cranky, My church does not have a choir and we do not use any instruments. We sing only Psalms in 4 part harmony, acapella. I really love the simplicity of it.
We're exactly the opposite. We have a full orchestra....600+ voice choir.....as someone who studied music for many years, I love the complexity of what and how we sing AS A CONGREGATION, as well as the music that is played (our piano player is great...as is the "lead" trumpet player) and many others....
...when studying music, I have always been drawn to the complex, whether listening to Wynton Marsalis, Robert Johnson or Thelonius Monk......or, insisting on learning piano pieces by Shostakovich and other Russian composers....for ME, those are usually the hardest....
but, that's just my OPINION.....if one prefers simplicity, then, that has it's merits, as well.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: The slow death of congregational singing - 11/4/2008 12:26:40 PM
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crankius
Posts: 4661
Joined: 4/12/2005
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kernsfamily,
Your post made me think of the church my husband and I attended when we first married. It was a church of about 2000 people, and it had a classically trained music minister on staff. The choir and orchestra were usually on the small side, but extremely well-trained. They would do a lot of John Rutter music, which we absolutely loved! The music was very classically oriented. However, they did do a mix of music on Sunday mornings, with praise songs and hymns.
We moved from that town, and later we found out that there was a great division in the church over music. The head pastor wanted to do more praise worship and make things more loosey goosey, but the music leader was of course classically trained and wanted to continue to honor the great choral classics and continue to lead the musicians/orchestra in classical music.
Eventually, the music minister was let go, and there was a split in the church.
Quite sad! Music can be so divisive.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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